I was curious to know if there were any parts of Ohio where even in a car, it's hard to get stations from larger markets either in or out of the state?
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Parts of Ohio that can't get stations from top markets?
- Thread starter radiogeek07
- Start date
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an inch of Ohio that can't get a fairly usable signal 24/7 from some combination of WLW, WTVN and WTAM.
There are certainly parts of the state that are beyond the reach of large-market FM, especially in the southeastern corner.
There are certainly parts of the state that are beyond the reach of large-market FM, especially in the southeastern corner.
Limp73 said:
Even in Zanesville you can hear WTVN and WLW very well during the day. At night you lose WTVN, and I think WLW's cancellation zone might include the Zanesville area. I'm 30 miles west of Zanesville and we get a little cancellation here (much more during the summer months).
I am thinking the answer here would be the more remote counties of southeast Ohio, although WWVA can probably be heard nicely in at least some of those areas daytime. Ground conductivity in that part of the state is horrid. I am thinking not even KDKA is a factor there; it has a pathetic signal for 50K.
An earlier poster mentioned WTAM. Once you get more than about 70 miles from Cleveland, its strength drops off pretty quickly, even with the better ground conductivity the farther north and west you get in Ohio.
Scott Fybush said:
Didn't seem to fit mucjh in my other post, but I completely agree with Scott. As underserved as some southern and eastern areas are by big signals, western Ohio (anywhere from the Columbus area west) can pick up a glut ... not only WTVN and WLW, but also WJR, CKLW (daytime), WHAS, WFNI from Indianapolis and even the Chicago stations, which get pretty loud west of 75.
"Ground conductivity in that part of the state is horrid. I am thinking not even KDKA is a factor there; it has a pathetic signal for 50K."
Tell me about it. Spent one summer back in the 80's running a couple of radials between St. Marys, WV (east of Marietta) and Akron-- conductivity goes down to about 1 ~1.5 mmhos once you get away from the river. That's how we got 630 in here (now WJAW/ESPN).
I can hear both KDKA and WWVA better in my dentist's parking lot than I can in my own drive in Marietta. My dentist is on Sylvania Ave. in Toledo....
Tell me about it. Spent one summer back in the 80's running a couple of radials between St. Marys, WV (east of Marietta) and Akron-- conductivity goes down to about 1 ~1.5 mmhos once you get away from the river. That's how we got 630 in here (now WJAW/ESPN).
I can hear both KDKA and WWVA better in my dentist's parking lot than I can in my own drive in Marietta. My dentist is on Sylvania Ave. in Toledo....
TomT said:
How convenient.
I'm in Athens... it's difficult to get top market stations but every now and then you can pick up WNCI or some of the other Columbus powerhouses such as WLZT and WHOK... I can get some small market stations though such as WXIL and WRVB.
Dave Sarnoff said:
LOL! I love that.
Growing up near the lake in Toledo, I could DX the big 50kw AM stations from Chicago and several from Toronto during the daytime. Louisville and Pittsburgh, too, if there wasn't a lot of thunderstorm static in the air.
Then, when I attended Ohio University in Athens, I learned what a difference the soil composition makes for AM signal propagation. I worked parttime at a 5kw station along the Ohio River in Middleport-Pomeroy, but, with their omnidirectinoal tower bulit into a rocky hillside, with lots of minerals in the soil, it barely got a good signal 25 miles north. In Toledo, with that power level, they would have been tied with WSPD for most powerful AM signal, and in the marshy flatlands of NW Ohio, it would have been heard for at least 70 miles.
Apart from a handful of FMs, Toledo stations always seemed to "think small" in terms of their signals, and didn't try to upgrade to more powerful facilities. I always that they were shortsighed, with no one trying to get a signal from Toledo that would also reach well into Detroit. Whereas, in Appalachian SE Ohio, you have to have 50kw, like WCAW Charleston W VA and WWVA Wheeling W Va had at the time, to get out as far as 5kw will take you in the terrain of the Great Lakes.
The proliferation of new Class A FMs in the far suburbs of Toledo, and now with more translators of nationwide religious businesses popping up wherever they can, it's harder to hear the high-paid talent on the Detroit FMs, which used to cover Toledo and 30 miles south with no difficulty, 30 years ago.
Then, when I attended Ohio University in Athens, I learned what a difference the soil composition makes for AM signal propagation. I worked parttime at a 5kw station along the Ohio River in Middleport-Pomeroy, but, with their omnidirectinoal tower bulit into a rocky hillside, with lots of minerals in the soil, it barely got a good signal 25 miles north. In Toledo, with that power level, they would have been tied with WSPD for most powerful AM signal, and in the marshy flatlands of NW Ohio, it would have been heard for at least 70 miles.
Apart from a handful of FMs, Toledo stations always seemed to "think small" in terms of their signals, and didn't try to upgrade to more powerful facilities. I always that they were shortsighed, with no one trying to get a signal from Toledo that would also reach well into Detroit. Whereas, in Appalachian SE Ohio, you have to have 50kw, like WCAW Charleston W VA and WWVA Wheeling W Va had at the time, to get out as far as 5kw will take you in the terrain of the Great Lakes.
The proliferation of new Class A FMs in the far suburbs of Toledo, and now with more translators of nationwide religious businesses popping up wherever they can, it's harder to hear the high-paid talent on the Detroit FMs, which used to cover Toledo and 30 miles south with no difficulty, 30 years ago.
There are some decent stations coming into Findlay aside from the Lima stations and local 1130 WFIN:
FM
WBUK 106.3 The Fox-classic rock
WJTA 88.9 Holy Family Catholic Radio in Leipsic (EWTN)
WTKC 89.7 a Class A (with a power output of an LPFM) but plays Contemporary Soul Gospel
WBVI 96.7-Mix FM Hot A/C in Fostoria
WKXA 100.5 Findlay's Classic Hits
WBVH-LP 99.3 from Bluffton College playing Smooth Jazz...nice little town to drive through when you want to go garage sale-ing in the summertime. RV camping located nearby off the interstate.
AM
WJR 760 Detroit News/Talk
CKKW 800-News Radio for Windsor and Detroit (what used to be The Big 8 decades ago)
WFOB 1430 Fostoria-Sports
WTTF 1600 Tiffin-True Oldies Channel
FM
WBUK 106.3 The Fox-classic rock
WJTA 88.9 Holy Family Catholic Radio in Leipsic (EWTN)
WTKC 89.7 a Class A (with a power output of an LPFM) but plays Contemporary Soul Gospel
WBVI 96.7-Mix FM Hot A/C in Fostoria
WKXA 100.5 Findlay's Classic Hits
WBVH-LP 99.3 from Bluffton College playing Smooth Jazz...nice little town to drive through when you want to go garage sale-ing in the summertime. RV camping located nearby off the interstate.
AM
WJR 760 Detroit News/Talk
CKKW 800-News Radio for Windsor and Detroit (what used to be The Big 8 decades ago)
WFOB 1430 Fostoria-Sports
WTTF 1600 Tiffin-True Oldies Channel
Limp73 said:
And unlike in the "Big 8" days, CKLW makes zero effort to serve Detroit with its programming.
It's very much a Canadian news/talk station, aside from being the defacto Detroit affiliate for a handful of U.S. syndicated shows...WOR Network's Dr. Joy Browne, Cox/Dial Global's Clark Howard, and of course, CKLW is the region's affiliate for Premiere's Coast to Coast with George Noory (WJR/760, the Rush/Hannity station, carries the WBAP-based Midnight Radio Network trucking show).
Notice, not one U.S. "political" show on the schedule.
The news and local programming studiously ignores the monster on the other side of the Detroit River, unless there are border or commerce issues that affect Windsor.
Atonement to the Canadian government for those successful Big 8 years in part no doubt. They really couldn't carry US political shows with more limited freedom of speech on the radio in Canada.
It's not "limited freedom of speech" in Canada, as much as requiring broadcasters transmit a more responsible tone. And to imagine CKLW carrying right wing American political shows is ridiculous. Frankly, it's just a insne for WJR to be running them, given the political and demographic make up of the region. Even when it was a real full service station that reflected the interests of corporate Detroit as the "goodwill station," and not a divisive force for some fat cat radio warlord who makes sure his "properties" evangelize in favor of making enemies among Americans, WJR would have never demonized Democrats and minorities on the air.
The kinds of progrmaming that WJR used to feature to help make Detroit a better place to live is all but scoffed at today by the small number of angry guys who seem to control the commercial radio industry (yet never seem to be satisfied with what the government has given them as a license to make money, without any genuine public service component in return as part of the equation anymore).
It is a shame CKLW has 50kw and practically the lowest ratings out of the dozens of signals in Detroit now. The CRTC used to seem to try to manage the Canadian radio industry to make sure it wasn't what they actually make exceptions to allow for in Windsor. Not that CKLW/CKWW et al don't do what appears to be a credible job of serving a town of 200,000 -- but not using the big powered Canadian AMs to intentionally "reach across the border" with content that reflects Canadian perspectives and interests seems short sighted to me, and it may be too late to do that ever again.
The kinds of progrmaming that WJR used to feature to help make Detroit a better place to live is all but scoffed at today by the small number of angry guys who seem to control the commercial radio industry (yet never seem to be satisfied with what the government has given them as a license to make money, without any genuine public service component in return as part of the equation anymore).
It is a shame CKLW has 50kw and practically the lowest ratings out of the dozens of signals in Detroit now. The CRTC used to seem to try to manage the Canadian radio industry to make sure it wasn't what they actually make exceptions to allow for in Windsor. Not that CKLW/CKWW et al don't do what appears to be a credible job of serving a town of 200,000 -- but not using the big powered Canadian AMs to intentionally "reach across the border" with content that reflects Canadian perspectives and interests seems short sighted to me, and it may be too late to do that ever again.
OK, Goldilocks...so what kind of programming SHOULD the 50 kW blowtorch CKLW be running these days to "reach across the border"? It's not "The Big 8" anymore. Oldies music is already on CKWW, which I presume is getting SOME audience across the river (give or take what's left after WOMC is done counting listeners).
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