playing 40 year old tapes on a 40 year old reel-to-reel. Precautions to take?

[brian65]

Last year I found some 40 year old reel to reel tapes. These are of family members and I would really like to hear them. I have just now finally found someone who has what they claim to be a functioning tape recorder/player that worked, at least when they put it away probably 25-30 years ago.

They are allowing me to borrow the unit to play the tapes, which is very nice of them, but I want to do what I can to avoid breaking the machine, or the tapes.

I haven't seen the unit yet, but the tapes (about 4 or 5) have been stored in boxes in a bedroom closet all this time. No extreme humidity or heat or cold. They actually look just about the same condition as when we played with them all those years ago.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Brian

 

[littlejohn]

Get a reel of blank tape - neat trick - and put it on the machine first. Be sure the machine feeds the tape properly, without binding or stretching. Particualrly try the fast functions. If the machine isn't VERY gentle, get another or don't use the fast functions. According to an article in (I believe) Mix or perhaops dB some years back, tapes which are flaking off oxide can be helped by warming them in an over to about 125 and then letting them cool overnight. Don't do that unless the oxide is flaking off. Clean the machine squeaky clean with alcohol, dry everything. Put a copy of Audacity or some other freebie recording software on your computer, and check to majke sure it works. RECORD EACH TAPE ON THE FIRST PASS. Then, you can screw around with speed variations, etc. But get a copy quick as you can so >if< the taope gets eaten, you still have the information off it.
If you can quote the make and model of the tape machine, probably someone here will be able to give you specific pointers ansd things to look out for.

 

[brian65]

Re: playing 40 year old tapes on a 40 year old reel-to-reel. Precautions to take

Thanks for those tips..

Regarding the initial blank tape. Do you mean an actual new empty tape with nothing recorded on it, or a tape that I don't care what is recorded on it because it wouldn't be a concern if it was trashed?

Would the empty tape have to be new or would an old one work.

I guess what I'm not sure of...is this a test of the machine's mechanics or would the empty tape passing over the heads be of some benefit?

 

[K6JHU]

Just a tape you don't need. You can find them cheap at the swap meets. Particularly clean the tape heads and the pinch rollers. I use rubbing alcohol and a Q-Tip but I suspect there are better solutions. I have recently palyed some of my 1980's open reel tapes with no difficulty. But then I have kept my open reel machine well maintained.

BTW, if the reels are the 7" reeels then there should not be a problem. Some of the old 2" reels don't play all that well on an open reel machine.

As was posted earlier. be sure that the machine you plan to use has been well cleaned and tested. And I like the idea of using Audactity for the first playing.

A couple of more item of interest. If the tapes are new (relatively) and the machine you are using is old (mono) you may find that both channels are mixed (one forward and one backward). It will mean finding a stereo open reel to play them back on. Also, if the tapes were wound tightly on the reel, you may find an 'echo' effect when you play them as the magnetism 'leaks' to the tape immediatley touching. Not much you can do about that.

But actually I am very optimistic that given a good machine, you will have success.

 

[Robert Bass]

DO NOT...

I repeat DO NOT use the "bake in the oven" approach for your tapes, especially if they are acetate based, not polyester. The tape baking process is meant for "mastering" tapes, that are backcoated with an anti-static guard that is black colored. Mastering tape was (and still is) extremely expensive, and probably not found in most general tape stores. Also, the baking process can affect the frequency response of those recordings, and may even increase the odds of tape breakage.

Having said that, who is offering to lend you the machine? A friend? A radio station? Whomever it is, needs to know the "current" condition of the machine. The "well it was working when we pulled it out of service "X" years ago" won't cut it.

You might first try searching for reputable sound archiving type services to transfer the recordings for you. Sure it will cost you some dough, but the memories on those tapes are priceless.

Good luck!

R

 

[Robert Bass]

A couple of more item of interest. If the tapes are new (relatively) and the machine you are using is old (mono) you may find that both channels are mixed (one forward and one backward). It will mean finding a stereo open reel to play them back on. Also, if the tapes were wound tightly on the reel, you may find an 'echo' effect when you play them as the magnetism 'leaks' to the tape immediatley touching. Not much you can do about that.

Excellent point. This is called "tape tracks". Consumer based stereo decks typically used the exact same tracking format as stereo cassette tapes (tracks 1 and 3 = side 1 stereo, and tracks 2 and 4 = side 2 stereo). There were mono decks as well, which were dual track based, allowing you to record a mono signal on both sides of the tape.

And this doesn't even include pro machines like quarter track stereo. ;D

R

 

[RadioMan203]

DO NOT...

I repeat DO NOT use the "bake in the oven" approach for your tapes, especially if they are acetate based, not polyester. The tape baking process is meant for "mastering" tapes, that are backcoated with an anti-static guard that is black colored. Mastering tape was (and still is) extremely expensive, and probably not found in most general tape stores. Also, the baking process can affect the frequency response of those recordings, and may even increase the odds of tape breakage.

I've never had any problems with baking tapes, but I don't use an oven, either. I have a food dehydrator with some extra rings that allow the tape to be at a comfortable 117 degrees. I've used this numerous times and I've never had a tape fall apart nor shed itself on the reel deck during playback. I feel this is much safer than trying to get a garden variety kitchen oven to hover at 125 degrees.

 

[dbdigital]

A couple of more item of interest. If the tapes are new (relatively) and the machine you are using is old (mono) you may find that both channels are mixed (one forward and one backward). It will mean finding a stereo open reel to play them back on. Also, if the tapes were wound tightly on the reel, you may find an 'echo' effect when you play them as the magnetism 'leaks' to the tape immediatley touching. Not much you can do about that.

Excellent point. This is called "tape tracks". Consumer based stereo decks typically used the exact same tracking format as stereo cassette tapes (tracks 1 and 3 = side 1 stereo, and tracks 2 and 4 = side 2 stereo). There were mono decks as well, which were dual track based, allowing you to record a mono signal on both sides of the tape.

And this doesn't even include pro machines like quarter track stereo. ;D

R

I think the problem he's referring to is "print through". I use isopropyl alcohol on the heads and guides of my old Ampex 351 and Formula 409 for the rubber pinch roller. The 409 cleans the roller while still keeping it soft as opposed to alcohol which causes the rubber to dry up and harden.

db

 

[brian_stevens]

DO NOT...

I repeat DO NOT use the "bake in the oven" approach for your tapes, especially if they are acetate based, not polyester.

If the tape is 40 years old, I suspect there's little to no need to consider "baking." Most sticky shed problems needing "baking" are from tape manufactured between the mid 70s and the late 80s.

Here's a great starter article regarding tape restoration: http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

More about Acetate and Polyester tape @ http://www.masterdigital.com/24bit/analogtape.htm

 

[SFM-Ptgal]

Just a non-answer with a touch of curiosity:

About 2 years ago my station decided to transfer all the archived analogue stuff to digital. A hardly used PR99 was called to the duty. The result was that both heads became squared due to the increasing friction of the loosen oxide of the tape. Daily, a nice layer of dark-brown tape formulation stick to the machine tape path and guides. I could scratch it with a nail and 3 bottles of alcohol was used for the process that took a month.

Now a hint:

While transcripting a few carts content onto the pc, the phasing problem found while playing the recorded carts content on the pc with the l+r summed, can be solved by processing one track on the DAW, off-setting it a few MSec from the other one. It's a trying out process but the result becomes perfect if the source was good. The same applies to R2R ;D IE, it's like tunning up the tape heads of a recorder ;D ;D ;D

 

[radiorob2.0]

Re: playing 40 year old tapes on a 40 year old reel-to-reel. Precautions to take

The problem surfaced in the eighties when music was remastered to CD. As I understand the brains of 3M and Ampex hustled to come up with the baking solution to avoid a mass of class action lawsuits from record studios, labels and program providers. The preferred method is using a dehydrator as mentioned above. Here is a online article http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Ken R discussed the subject in Radio World a few years back. He experimented with using a electric oven with good results. I have done the same and it works. My suggestion is to purchase a thermometer from an auto parts store used for checking Heating and Air Conditioning; a cooking thermometer will work as well. As long as it will give a easy read temperature from 110 to 140 degrees. Turn the oven on at the lowest temperature and monitor the thermometer for the sweet spot that cycles between 110 and 130 degrees. Place the tape on something that will keep it from touching the rack. I have a microwave leftover bowl cover that works like a champ. Leave it in for eight to ten hours and allow to slowly cool. In a perfect world you should do this during the day where you can monitor the situation, but I've tempted fate and attempted this overnight and not burned the place down. You will get a few plays out of the tape before it starts screeching again.

Oh, one more thing, this will not work with gas ovens. The byproduct released will do more damage than good.

Another thing, most Tascam and Revox reel to reels seem to be kinder to unbaked tapes. The transports of the Otaris are not kind and will only play perfect tapes.

 

[brian65]

Re: playing 40 year old tapes on a 40 year old reel-to-reel. Precautions to take

As I mentioned when I first asked questions about this way back before I found the player to use, the tapes were probably manufactured and recorded around 1961-62. It was a Webcor machine and a stereo model. Can't recall much more about it but I could probably select it from a lineup.

Right now I'm really more concerned with not breaking the player. I won't be able to pick it up till next week.

I was going to make sure it was tested at their house before I left with it. Not sure what the make/model of machine is yet either. She mentioned she remembered it had one microphone, but I was thinking most units were stereo back then (she said she remembered using it in 1965).

I don't really want to stick around there cleaning the heads etc before I take it with me, but I think I at least want to make sure it works mechanically before I leave with it....then really clean it up at my place without being rushed.

 

[Lane Lindstrom]

Hello:
Another thing to watch out for is splices in the tape. If there are any...they will probably break as the glue has long dried out. You will need to resplice if they fail. Also, many of the older splicing tools such as the old Robbins and 3M used to "cut in" the tape while trimming the splice tape. The later Editall blocks did not since the spliceing tape was the correct width of the tape. The end result is resplicing without using the older style "splicer" will result in a small amount of adhesive from the splice tape that will stick to the tape as it is wound, not a problem now, but perhaps in the future. Probably more information than you need, I archive old tapes as a service and use several decks depending on the tape type, speed and head configuration. And yes...I echo the comments before....do not bake. If it is an acetate or mylar of that age it did not have backcoating.

Good luck

Lane Lindstrom

 

[Robert Bass]

The problem with Ampex tapes is that the sticky shed still occurs with tapes manufactured during the 1990's.

R

 

[sparks794]

Also make sure that the reels themselves are not warped. I have had tapes in the past that were not stored properly and the plastic of the reeh had gotten hot and damaged the tape when trying to play it.

Pull the first few turns of tape off by hand to check for this.

 

[littlejohn]

Lewt me suggest that the Webcor machine probably isn't the best choice to run these old tapes on. See if you can find something which is a little bit gentler on them. If you can find someone with a working MCI JH-110 machine, it's probably as gentle as anything made.

 

[K6JHU]

I use a Pioneer RT-707. It seems to work well on everything but the thinnest acetate.

 

[Robert Bass]

I use a Pioneer RT-707. It seems to work well on everything but the thinnest acetate.

Yeah that was a great machine!

I wore the heads out on my father's deck, long before he ever got around to really playing with it.

R

 

[littlejohn]

The 707 is also an excellent choice. With it, however, I would wind or rewind the reel entirely rather than trying to stop someplace in the middle. I suggested the MCI because, when it is working properly, it is a constant tension machine... the tape tension is the same stopped, playing, or winding. Thye are very gentle.

 

[Turntable]

Re: playing 40 year old tapes on a 40 year old reel-to-reel. Precautions to take

I disagree with the comment above that the Otari machines do not handle tape gently and are not kind to older tapes. My main transcription machine is an Otari MX-5050-BQII 4-track and let me just say this: Properly maintained and adjusted, they are some of the smoothest handling machines you can find. It's also extremely versatile, handling all three common speeds up to 15ips, and workable with almost any track format.

Otari's rock.

-A