Question: What was the flagship radio station for the 1962 San Fran Giants

[BossRadioDJ]

I am all for restoring historic call letters. It would be very nice if some day the very first call letters, KQW, made a comeback. Fat chance KCBS would ever do that, though!

Ahh, Lopaka, except KQW wasn't the first set of call letters issued for a *commercial* radio station in the United States!

In fact, KQW was the eighteenth station to receive a broadcast license, getting its on December 9, 1921. KWG in Stockton was the first licensed station in Northern California, receiving its authorization on December 7, 1921.

The distinction is that Charles Herrold's station, which he founded in 1909, was the first station to broadcast programming on a regular schedule in the United States, which it was doing by 1912, originally without a license (there was no licensing authority when the station began) and then under experimental licenses (6XE, 6XO and 6QW).

But that's the subject for another thread...

DJ

 

[Lopaka]

Thank you for the correction.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

...while ABC's New York station began life as "WABD"

WABD-TV channel 5 (later WNEW-TV, now WNYW-TV) was the Dumont
flagship. ABC O&O WABC-TV channel 7 was originally WJZ-TV, signing
on in 1948. Since the ABC-TV network commenced operations before
WJZ-TV hit the air, it's possible WABD may have carried some early ABC
programming (not sure).

 

[oldiesfan6479]

I remember this on-the-hour ID when I was a kid: "50,000 Watt clear channel Kay - Eff - Eyyyyyyeeeee, Los Angeles, an Earle C. Anthony station!"

And when Al "Jazzbo" Collins enunciated a live legal during his 11pm-4am show,
he'd often follow the COL with "at six-four-oh on your ever-lovin' knob."

KFI in the early 60s was a full service station, and ran the "Standard School Broadcast," a one hour educational radio show for elementary school kids that we had to listen to in class once or twice a week.

I also vaguely recall this show airing on flea-powered KTUC Tucson way back then.
Was this a heard-in-the-west only program? Ad hoc network feed or via transcription?
Was it underwritten (don't think sponsored would be the correct term) by the Standard
Oil Co. of California (Chevron), hence the name "Standard" in the title?

 

[CarterB]

The Standard School broadcast originated from the big studio on Tayler steet San Francisco. I can still remember the thrill of seeing a large orchestra in action.

 

[rickradio]

WABD-TV channel 5 (later WNEW-TV, now WNYW-TV) was the Dumont
flagship. ABC O&O WABC-TV channel 7 was originally WJZ-TV, signing on in 1948. Since the ABC-TV network commenced operations before WJZ-TV hit the air, it's possible WABD may have carried some early ABC programming (not sure).

Indeed, WABD most likely did...
Thanks for the correction...got my wires crossed. WABD channel 5 was originally the Dumont flagship, having gotten its license in 1944 with ABC's WJZ-TV hitting the air in August 1948. But before that, ABC bought time on other stations and used other facilities (such as Dumont's) to give their techs production experience until they got their own station.

As for network TV O & Os, Llew and I were unsure of when KNBH in LA became KRCA...dustintv says it was in 1954, which would explain why Llew didn't know...he was but a toddler! Thanks for plugging that hole, Dustin.

 

[radio dx]

What ever happened to the weekend guys, Stan Dunn and Tom Brown or the guy they called "in the kitchen with Harvey" a cooking program that aired weekday afternoons co- hosted I think by Ron Lyons ? and who was the information ferry Ron and Tom would turn to during the later afternoon weekday call in program with Ron Lyons and Tom brown it was called Ron and Tom folery I remember folks would call in and try to stump the host with off the wall questions about any and everthing?

 

[calguy]

I seem to remember listening to a Saturday night specialty show on KNBR with my mom & dad when I was a child. Mid to late 60's through maybe the early 70's, I'm foggy on this, but they played music from the 30's and 40's and maybe even earlier. Anyone remember or know anything about it? My parents grew up during the depression and my mother seemed to know a lot of the songs.

 

[radioman148]

I was in SF in the summer of 1960 & seem to remember the Giants games on KCBS-740.
Could this be possible at that time or is my memory wrong on this?

 

[tripton99]

Giants came to SF in '58 and started on KSFO with Russ Hodges and Lon Simmons. In the late '70s they switched to KNBR after KSFO's owners, Golden West Broadcasting (Who also owned the California Angels) pissed off the Giants owners by voting against the Giants on some franchise matter.

 

[paulsecic]

What does or what did the KNBR calls stand for?

I don't think the letters stand for anything, really. KNBC-AM would've kept its call letters, but NBC wanted their LA TV station to have the letters too, and apparently in those days (1962), the FCC rule that the same set of call letters couldn't be used in two different cities was still in effect (for example, KWBR AM & FM: the AM was in Oakland, the FM in SF, so the FM was changed). And since, like DJ said, the FCC won't either issue or reissue 3-letter call signs, going back to KPO was also out of the question for KNBC, therefore, a whole new set of call letters was issued. Now, why it was "KNBR" instead of "KNBU" or "KNBL" or "KNBD" or "KNBwhatever," if anyone has an answer to that, it would be DJ.

An interesting note: when network TV stations first went on the air, they DIDN'T bear the network abbreviation. NBC's New York station went on the air as "WNBT" channel 1, and CBS's New York station went on the air as "WCBW" channel 2, while ABC's New York station began life as "WABD," and as I stated earlier in this thread, "KNBH" was NBC's LA TV O & O until changed to "KRCA" before being again changed to "KNBC."

"KPO 680, your home of everything Giants" just doesn't sound right."

Only because you're used to hearing "KNBR."

And you would never have thought twice about "KPO 680, your home of everything Giants" any more than you do about "Hot Talk 560 KSFO" or "KGO News Talk 810." If KPO was (were?) the call letters, you would have gotten used to them. You would never have heard of KNBR -- and those call letters would sound odd to you.

I totally agree. How normal would "KABR News Talk 810" sound after hearing "KGO" all your life?

Theres a video on http://www.youtube.com of WABD.

 

[rickradio]

From Llew:

I consider it a public service to impart my great wisdom to others. On the other hand, KABC has always been in Los Angeles, so maybe I'm full of s_ _t.

Oh, but brimming with excrement, you are not, sir. Yes, KABC has always been in LA, BUT, the 790 frequency in LA wasn't KABC until sometime in the early/mid 60s (I'm guessing '64 or '65)...after KRCA channel 4 became KNBC, and LA became a city in which no network would be ashamed to park its precious call letters. This falls right in line with your explanation, oh wise one...

As for CBS, they probably left KCBS and KNX alone after it became fashionable to have network call letters in LA for 2 reasons: 1.) 740 KCBS is a Bay Area institution, and 2.) CBS probably realizes the historic value of 3-letter call signs (and KNX is an LA institution)... Now, if anyone has the real reason(s), they'll doubtless come forward, provided they even care to begin with...

And...

"KPO 680, your home of everything Giants" just doesn't sound right."

Only because you're used to hearing "KNBR."

Remember that until 1947, all anyone ever heard on 680 (or 710) in the Bay Area was "KPO."

And now, Ladies and Gentlemen...

THIS THREAD CAN NOW OFFICIALLY DIE.

 

[DavidKaye]

I seem to remember listening to a Saturday night specialty show on KNBR with my mom & dad when I was a child. Mid to late 60's through maybe the early 70's, I'm foggy on this, but they played music from the 30's and 40's and maybe even earlier. Anyone remember or know anything about it? My parents grew up during the depression and my mother seemed to know a lot of the songs.

KNBR offered "76 Party Time" in the 1960s and maybe into the early 70s. There were 3 half-hour programs originating live from various ballrooms, a different one each hour. Ernie Heckscher And His Orchestra At The Fairmont hotel, George Liberace (Lee's brother, a band leader in his own right) from some other hotel, and someone like Ted Fiorito or somebody from still another hotel. These shows were sponsored by Union Oil company (back when Union owned the 76 brand). While these bands for the most part actually played contemporary songs, their whole format and the fact that they were dance bands would make it seem as if they were playing 30s and 40s music.

During the latter half of each hour the local KNBR DJ would play some dance tunes between the live broadcasts.

All of these shows came "courtesy of Musicians Union Local 6"

Ahhhhh...the days when SF was a union town.....

 

[BossRadioDJ]

I was in SF in the summer of 1960 & seem to remember the Giants games on KCBS-740.
Could this be possible at that time or is my memory wrong on this?

Your memory is wrong ... unless KSFO bumped a single broadcast to another station when it conflicted with 49ers football, which would have only been one or maybe two games in the Fall.

But KCBS never carried the Giants on a regular schedule during that era.

DJ

 

[calguy]

I seem to remember listening to a Saturday night specialty show on KNBR with my mom & dad when I was a child. Mid to late 60's through maybe the early 70's, I'm foggy on this, but they played music from the 30's and 40's and maybe even earlier. Anyone remember or know anything about it? My parents grew up during the depression and my mother seemed to know a lot of the songs.

KNBR offered "76 Party Time" in the 1960s and maybe into the early 70s. There were 3 half-hour programs originating live from various ballrooms, a different one each hour. Ernie Heckscher And His Orchestra At The Fairmont hotel, George Liberace (Lee's brother, a band leader in his own right) from some other hotel, and someone like Ted Fiorito or somebody from still another hotel. These shows were sponsored by Union Oil company (back when Union owned the 76 brand). While these bands for the most part actually played contemporary songs, their whole format and the fact that they were dance bands would make it seem as if they were playing 30s and 40s music.

During the latter half of each hour the local KNBR DJ would play some dance tunes between the live broadcasts.

All of these shows came "courtesy of Musicians Union Local 6"

Ahhhhh...the days when SF was a union town.....

Thanks for the info!

Maybe because I was just a kid, but radio seemed magical and exciting then. Seems like a long time ago...

Aren't there still AFTRA station in SF?

 

[mred]

Limbaugh was on in the morning on knbr and Peter b Collins was on in the afternoon for a time...the rest was sports

 

[newsperson]

Call letter rule changes:

It was around 1988(approx) that the FCC changed the call letter rules to allow the same call leters on a seperate service (AM, FM or TV) to be assigned to a station in a different market.

The previous rule would only allow a KCBS-TV or KCBS-FM in San Francisco while maintaining KCBS-AM.

It seemed that the minute the rule was effecitive, KNXT-TV was gone and it was KCBS-TV which only makes sense.

The rule also allows the present owners of the call letters to give permission to another station in a different service to use the letters. So you may hear an AM station in one region with the same call letters of an FM station in another. And they may have no affiliation with each other.

As far as KNBR is concerned it was a really good full service station and that is the type of station that is missed today.

Newsperson

 

[LKellerIII]

Rickradio said: "BUT, the 790 frequency in LA wasn't KABC until sometime in the early/mid 60s (I'm guessing '64 or '65)...after KRCA channel 4 became KNBC, and LA became a city in which no network would be ashamed to park its precious call letters."

Are you sure Rick? My mother was a big KABC fan in the early 60s - I remember she listened to Pamela Mason a lot. She was actor James Mason's ex-wife, and had a show-bizzy chat show on 790 - mostly guests, few or no callers. Anyway, I could have sworn it was KABC then, and that Channel 7 there was KABC-TV years before Channel 4 switched from KRCA to KNBC.

Newsperson said: "It was around 1988(approx) that the FCC changed the call letter rules to allow the same call leters on a seperate service (AM, FM or TV) to be assigned to a station in a different market. The previous rule would only allow a KCBS-TV or KCBS-FM in San Francisco while maintaining KCBS-AM. It seemed that the minute the rule was effecitive, KNXT-TV was gone and it was KCBS-TV which only makes sense."


That makes sense to me, and probably explains why CBS waited so long to make that switch. As Rick noted, they probably didn't want to mess with high-rated KCBS-AM in San Francisco by changing the calls to "KCBR" (a la KNBR) or something similar. By that time, I believe KCBS-FM had already changed to KRQR.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Newsperson said: "It was around 1988(approx) that the FCC changed the call letter rules to allow the same call leters on a seperate service (AM, FM or TV) to be assigned to a station in a different market. The previous rule would only allow a KCBS-TV or KCBS-FM in San Francisco while maintaining KCBS-AM. It seemed that the minute the rule was effecitive, KNXT-TV was gone and it was KCBS-TV which only makes sense."

That makes sense to me, and probably explains why CBS waited so long to make that switch. As Rick noted, they probably didn't want to mess with high-rated KCBS-AM in San Francisco by changing the calls to "KCBR" (a la KNBR) or something similar. By that time, I believe KCBS-FM had already changed to KRQR.

KCBS-FM (97.3) in San Francisco became KRQR on January 25, 1982.

DJ

 

[rickradio]

Llew asks:

Are you sure Rick?

And the short answer is "No, Llew, not at all." In fact, I hope I didn't embarrass myself too much here. But I could've sworn that KECA-AM became KABC around '63 or '64, but I have nothing to back that up. Furthermore, I hadn't even thought about when KABC-TV first hit the air. Was it KECA-TV first? And if so, when did ABC change it to KABC? Since you grew up in LA, I figured you would know. Maybe NBC got the idea to change KRCA to KNBC from ABC, although that would be quite the switch, NBC following ABC's lead, especially in those days. Maybe I'm the one who's full of sh-- after all!