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Radio Business Report (Jim Carnegie) about boomer advertising

R

radioray

Here is something in Todays RBR (www.rbr.com)


Targeting baby boomers

Madison Avenue has long considered consumers ages 18 to 49 to be the target of choice, but that may be changing.

As a recent New York Times article, "Flower Power in Ad Land," reported, major advertisers - including automotive, financial and packaged goods companies- are reconsidering their fixation on youth.

The baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1964 and comprising a market of 76 million, are, once again, rewriting the rules, reported eMarketer. "Those wishing to be successful in the market can't ignore the boomer numbers, the wealth and spending power they have," Pat Conroy of Deloitte & Touche told the Times. "The boomers have redefined every age they've moved through, so there's no reason to believe they will not redefine the stereotypes of what it means to be retired."

See more at www.rbr.com
 
Report

One can only hope the light finally comes on.


>
> Targeting baby boomers
>
> Madison Avenue has long considered consumers ages 18 to 49
> to be the target of choice, but that may be changing.
>
> As a recent New York Times article, "Flower Power in Ad
> Land," reported, major advertisers - including automotive,
> financial and packaged goods companies- are reconsidering
> their fixation on youth.
>
> The baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1964 and comprising
> a market of 76 million, are, once again, rewriting the
> rules, reported eMarketer. "Those wishing to be successful
> in the market can't ignore the boomer numbers, the wealth
> and spending power they have," Pat Conroy of Deloitte &
> Touche told the Times. "The boomers have redefined every age
> they've moved through, so there's no reason to believe they
> will not redefine the stereotypes of what it means to be
> retired."
>
> See more at www.rbr.com
>
 
> Here is something in Todays RBR (www.rbr.com)
>
>
> Targeting baby boomers
>
> Madison Avenue has long considered consumers ages 18 to 49
> to be the target of choice, but that may be changing.
>
> As a recent New York Times article, "Flower Power in Ad
> Land," reported, major advertisers - including automotive,
> financial and packaged goods companies- are reconsidering
> their fixation on youth.

The issue is that, at present, there are no 55+ buys for ardio coming out of agencies. I talked yesterday with the manager of our LA station about how many new business alerts for 55+ campaigns had come out in the first quarter, and we could find none... zero... zp... zilch... nada. And that is for the whole $1.1 billion dollar LA market.

Senior advertising seems to go to targeted media, like direct mail, specialized magazines, etc. It does not seem to go to radio, and until it does, radio will ignore 55+ as there is no way to make money off the demo (except in small and suburban markets where most business is direct and smaller advertisers, mostly retail, can and should target seniors). Remember that way over half the US population lives in the first 50 markets, so what happens in them determines the bulk of ad expenditures (130 million 12+ persons)
 
Re: Report

> One can only hope the light finally comes on.

I looked at the April new business reports, and there is not 55+ in LA... so it is going to take a while more.
 
That is why I have said all along that oldies radio could work with "oldies" tv (mostly the news shows, but not only) and work on creating a lobbying organization to lobby for inclusion in buys.

It can be done. Work them. Flatter them. Work with other media. Influence the buyers. Don't be so defeatist (it will never work, it can be done). It can. It will take time and effort, but the people who put it in will be BIG winners. Advertisers CAN come around if pitched right.

At least in my opinion.
 
Report

That's a big reach, Ray. I'm not sure what connection you think there is between TV advertisers and how you'll convert them to radio in the first place and to Oldies on top of that. Where they tie together is beyond me.

It's not a matter of being a defeatist- you can tell your kids to eat their vegatables all you want, maybe even how good those veggies are and how all the big kids eat them, how big they'll grow-- but if they don't like them, you'll never convince them to change their mind (even if you get 'em to choke a few down once in a while).

The bigger question you might ask yourself is that with all that work, flattery, schmoozing, re-educating, training--all of that-- will the return be worth the time, energy and resources?

Until you can convince ADVERTISERS that pouring big $$$ into targeting Boomers will make a big positive difference in their bottom line, you're peeing in the wind. That's not being a defeatist- that's being a realist.


> That is why I have said all along that oldies radio could
> work with "oldies" tv (mostly the news shows, but not only)
> and work on creating a lobbying organization to lobby for
> inclusion in buys.
>
> It can be done. Work them. Flatter them. Work with other
> media. Influence the buyers. Don't be so defeatist (it will
> never work, it can be done). It can. It will take time and
> effort, but the people who put it in will be BIG winners.
> Advertisers CAN come around if pitched right.
>
> At least in my opinion.
>
 
> That is why I have said all along that oldies radio could
> work with "oldies" tv (mostly the news shows, but not only)
> and work on creating a lobbying organization to lobby for
> inclusion in buys.

Buy demos are determined by the client. Often, they reflect who the product or service was desgned for.
>
> It can be done. Work them. Flatter them. Work with other
> media.

Each medium competes with earch other one.

> Influence the buyers.

Buyers have no control of the demos on a buy. They are given a list. Period.

> Don't be so defeatist (it will
> never work, it can be done).

There is no interest in doing somehting that will cost money and have no payback. Stations or groups of stations in a single format do not visit agency clients. RAB sells radio, but focuses on getting advertisers to include radio in campaigns, not specific formats or demos, which is determined by marketing and management.

> It can. It will take time and
> effort, but the people who put it in will be BIG winners.
> Advertisers CAN come around if pitched right.
>

You really think P&G cares about oldies radio listeners? They use radio to supplement campaigns, and the demos have to match the overall campaign.
 
Re: Report

> [I looked at the April new business reports, and there is not
> 55+ in LA... so it is going to take a while more.]


Maybe you guys will have it figured it out by 2009. That's when my XM satellite radio subscription is up for renewal.
 
So, will there be...

...Any formats left around that appeal to 18-34/18-49 yr olds? Or are we all going to have to listen to stuff that came out before 1997 in a few years?

Please tell me no. Especially since I live in the midwest.




> > That is why I have said all along that oldies radio could
> > work with "oldies" tv (mostly the news shows, but not
> only)
> > and work on creating a lobbying organization to lobby for
> > inclusion in buys.
>
> Buy demos are determined by the client. Often, they reflect
> who the product or service was desgned for.
> >
> > It can be done. Work them. Flatter them. Work with other
> > media.
>
> Each medium competes with earch other one.
>
> > Influence the buyers.
>
> Buyers have no control of the demos on a buy. They are given
> a list. Period.
>
> > Don't be so defeatist (it will
> > never work, it can be done).
>
> There is no interest in doing somehting that will cost money
> and have no payback. Stations or groups of stations in a
> single format do not visit agency clients. RAB sells radio,
> but focuses on getting advertisers to include radio in
> campaigns, not specific formats or demos, which is
> determined by marketing and management.
>
> > It can. It will take time and
> > effort, but the people who put it in will be BIG winners.
> > Advertisers CAN come around if pitched right.
> >
>
> You really think P&G cares about oldies radio listeners?
> They use radio to supplement campaigns, and the demos have
> to match the overall campaign.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radiorobert on 04/18/06 07:34 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Yes

> ...Any formats left around that appeal to 18-34/18-49 yr
> olds? Or are we all going to have to listen to stuff that
> came out before 1997 in a few years?
>
> Please tell me no. Especially since I live in the midwest.

All formats appeal today, mostly, to 18-49 and 25-54. There are no ad buys to speak of in 12-17 and none in 55+, so these ages will NOT have formats specifically directed at them. All others will.
 
Re: Report

> > [I looked at the April new business reports, and there is
> not
> > 55+ in LA... so it is going to take a while more.]
>
>
> Maybe you guys will have it figured it out by 2009. That's
> when my XM satellite radio subscription is up for renewal.
>

Radio does not figure out anything except how to appeal to listeners in the age groups that advertisers want. Since there is no interest in 55+, there will be no 55+ formats. Now, or, probably, then.
 
Re: Report

> > [I looked at the April new business reports, and there is
> not
> > 55+ in LA... so it is going to take a while more.]
>
>
> Maybe you guys will have it figured it out by 2009. That's
> when my XM satellite radio subscription is up for renewal.
>

I believe that there is a radio market for 55+ listeners.

Can more research be done to investigate the listening habits of people older than 55? Thoughts Mr. Eduardo? Is there anything that will change the minds of ad buyers?
 
Re: Report

> > > [I looked at the April new business reports, and there
> is
> > not
> > > 55+ in LA... so it is going to take a while more.]
> >
> >
> > Maybe you guys will have it figured it out by 2009.
> That's
> > when my XM satellite radio subscription is up for renewal.
>
> >
>
> I believe that there is a radio market for 55+ listeners.
>
> Can more research be done to investigate the listening
> habits of people older than 55?

Arbitron researches listening by everyone 12 and over. The data is there. Always has been.

> Thoughts Mr. Eduardo? Is
> there anything that will change the minds of ad buyers?
>

It is not media buyers (agencies) that make this decision in ratings based (transactional) buys. It is the advertiser who sets ad target ages for entire, multi-media campaigns. And there is really nothing a handful of older demo formats or stations can do to change this.
 
Re: Report

> > [I looked at the April new business reports, and there is
> not
> > 55+ in LA... so it is going to take a while more.]
>
>
> Maybe you guys will have it figured it out by 2009. That's
> when my XM satellite radio subscription is up for renewal.


> And that is what I have posted on here before about- oldies listeners have to turn to alternative methods of getting their dose of oldies favs. Whether it be the i-pod/mp3 player, internet radio or XM or Sirius sat radio- regular terrestrial radio has told us we aren't important- so be it. Tell regular radio they aren't important to us. Use deliverance systems that dont care what the advertisers want... we are over the hill in their eyes, and not desirable- cool! Move along and find those oldies whereever they may be, and they are still there- and better than what terrestrial radio gave us anyways.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by AZJoe on 04/19/06 12:15 AM.</FONT></P>
 
"Buy demos are determined by the client. Often, they reflect who the product or service was desgned for."

I know, I meant work with the people making decisions at the marketing level of companies.

"Each medium competes with earch other one."

And cooperates when necessary, if they didnt there wouldnt be an NAB.

"There is no interest in doing somehting that will cost money and have no payback."

You dont know if it will or wont have payback

"Stations or groups of stations in a single format do not visit agency clients."

They should start.

"RAB sells radio, but focuses on getting advertisers to include radio in campaigns, not specific formats or demos, which is determined by marketing and management."

Then they should start influencing the management of these corporations.

"You really think P&G cares about oldies radio listeners? They use radio to supplement campaigns, and the demos have to match the overall campaign."

No, they care about pushing product and oldies radio has failed to date to sell the fact that oldies demos buy toothpaste and shampoo too and are NOT necessarily "stuck in their ways" (once a bud man, always a bud man) but are just as fickle as younger people. Several surveys have shown this.
 
> "Buy demos are determined by the client. Often, they reflect
> who the product or service was desgned for."
>
> I know, I meant work with the people making decisions at the
> marketing level of companies.

Radio is barely on the radar for these people. They determine who a product or service is to be designed for, and then the agency finds media that reaches that group. Until more products are designed for, paackaged for and marketed for 55+, there is no way to have a few oldies radio stations get anywhere close to the marketing folks.

In fact, most corporate marketing people would send such visitors right to the agency, or, maybe, somewhere warmer.

And, as mentioned, those products and services targeted to older people tend to use very specific media, like direct mail, specialized magazines, special TV or cable programming (like travel, golf and cooking shows or channels) and not mass media that has too much spillage.
>
> "Each medium competes with earch other one."
>
> And cooperates when necessary, if they didnt there wouldnt
> be an NAB.

NAB is a lobby organization for radio and TV, but they do not cooperate with print, Internet, etc., unless there is a common legislative cause.

The NAB is not a sales organization. The RAB is, but they fight to take money form other media, and there is no hisory of a multi-media cooperation on a specific demo since that would pit some members against others.
>
> "There is no interest in doing somehting that will cost
> money and have no payback."
>
> You dont know if it will or wont have payback

It won't. If there were, we would be doing it.
>
> "Stations or groups of stations in a single format do not
> visit agency clients."
>
> They should start.

The effect would be to go on the blacklist (meaning, "never buy this station for any account") at the agency whose account it is. Visiting an account without agency permission is a fatal error.
>
> "RAB sells radio, but focuses on getting advertisers to
> include radio in campaigns, not specific formats or demos,
> which is determined by marketing and management."
>
> Then they should start influencing the management of these
> corporations.

Were they to sell anything except the medium, then you woud pit members against members and have a feeling of favoritism. RAB goes to mid level folks and trys to get more radio put in the media mix. They do not try to switch client demo targets, as that is determined much higher up in marketing... generally determined when the product or service was designed.
>
> "You really think P&G cares about oldies radio listeners?
> They use radio to supplement campaigns, and the demos have
> to match the overall campaign."
>
> No, they care about pushing product and oldies radio has
> failed to date to sell the fact that oldies demos buy
> toothpaste and shampoo too and are NOT necessarily "stuck in
> their ways" (once a bud man, always a bud man) but are just
> as fickle as younger people. Several surveys have shown
> this.

P&G is about the best marketer there is. They study all the consumer groups, and determine which ones are the targets for each product. In fact, new products are researched to determine viability and acceptance. These guys know exactly who to send the message to, and all the data is proprietary. Event he commercials are researched. New roll outs go through test marketing, etc. The development process is enormously sophisticated.

One thing does come out: on consumer products like toothpaste, the cost of getting trial for older demos is generally more expensive than the profit on the sale. This means it takes a buck's worth of advertising to sell a tube that has a profit of ahalf a buck.

You are not giving enough credit to the advertisers. Most have gone into marketing mode (find out what people like and need and then build a better product for them) from manufacturing mode (make a product and push it at people and see if it sells). Products and services are created from scratch to satisfy a specific demo, lifestyle, region of the country, etc. No motly crew of oldies sellers is going to change this. In fact, since product development is secret, they will not even know until the product is on the market.
 
David Eduardo

The Variety Hits board is calling for your intelligence. Do ratings have anything to do with the buying decisions of advertisers? I'm pretty sure they don't, but I know you could give us a better view and more information about it. There's a discussion about it on the Variety Hits board.

Here's a link to the start of that discussion:
http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=706472&Board=variety

Thanks

<P ID="signature">______________
radiolover78</P>
 
ads

Of course ratings influence advertisers. How many people watch a TV show or listen to a radio station has a major impact on advertising decisions.

If you owned a business who decided to advertise, you'd want to get your message out to the largest number of your target audience as effectively and efficiently as possible, wouldn't you? How else would you measure those things, other than ratings (as one of the major factors)?


> The Variety Hits board is calling for your intelligence. Do
> ratings have anything to do with the buying decisions of
> advertisers? I'm pretty sure they don't, but I know you
> could give us a better view and more information about it.
> There's a discussion about it on the Variety Hits board.
>
> Here's a link to the start of that discussion:
ht> tp://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=706472&Board=variety
>
>
> Thanks
>
 
Re: ads

> Of course ratings influence advertisers. How many people
> watch a TV show or listen to a radio station has a major
> impact on advertising decisions.
>
> If you owned a business who decided to advertise, you'd want
> to get your message out to the largest number of your target
> audience as effectively and efficiently as possible,
> wouldn't you? How else would you measure those things,
> other than ratings (as one of the major factors)?

I don't know. This is a subject area I'm not strong in. I assumed that the advertisers were interested in targeting a specific demo like 18-30, 25-34, 25-54, etc, no matter what the ratings situation is. I thought that because no matter what, there would be an audience (the audience being the target demo) that would be there listening. Thats what I originally thought, but now I know.

Hey, I'm wrong, I admit, unlike a few known others that will deny they're wrong, mainly at the VH board.
 
Re: ads

> I don't know. This is a subject area I'm not strong in. I
> assumed that the advertisers were interested in targeting a
> specific demo like 18-30, 25-34, 25-54, etc, no matter what
> the ratings situation is. I thought that because no matter
> what, there would be an audience (the audience being the
> target demo) that would be there listening. Thats what I
> originally thought, but now I know.

Here is my fruity analogy.

You go to the supermarket to buy fresh oranges. So, you are not interested in grapefruits, pears, pinapples, apples, etc. This is your "demo."

Once you find the orange section, you pick the nicest, juciest oranges. This is the selection of stations within the demo.

Media buyers with a target don't want anyone else. They want the most in-demo people at the lowest cost per person.
 
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