Ratings & Revenue then,....and Now for the True Thinkers:

[davideduardo]

Here's another one too scared to answer a simple question of short thought. .....when any company conducts an Auditorium Music Test , they are testing the songs.....they don't care, and they certainly don't explain to the stooges what format that they are testing, as if they would understand, to start with.

You have no understanding of the process.

A music test only invites people who are listeners to a particular station or format. So the average listener, by the time they hear the first pod of songs, has a very good idea of who is conducting the test. Many of us actually tell the respondents what station is sponsoring the test once the session is over and explain that "WXXX does this to be sure that they play the songs you really want to hear on the radio. So go tell your friends that WXXX plays the people's choices because you voted for them!"

Listeners may not understand the inner workings of a station, but they are not stooges. That's an insulting way to talk about the people who listen to us. Shame.

They test for appeal verses burn, and it only varies, when you vary the group of stooges. Again, they test the songs!

Stations test songs against their own audience or potential audience and demographic target. So the same song on different stations will test differently.

And, actually, many tests do not sample for burn. They ask, on a scale "how much do you want to hear that song on the radio today". If the score is in the lowest two quintiles, it does not matter if it's developed dislike or original dislike... we won't play the song.

So,...grow a set, answer the question or admit that you are in the little wicker basket of Boobs, with JethroM, and his "A"-ness.

Oh, what an insult. A wicker basket... reminds me of how long it has been since I went to a Pier 1 Imports.

Again, the question has no answer unless you are specific to a station, its market and its format.

 

[JeffM]

Quintile? Buford here thinks Quintile is that fancy new floor in the crapper of his double-wide.

 

[Scooter Lesley]

Holiday Greetingz, and Readingz Y'all! ...and just hours before, I both Gorge like a King, and Feast like a Fiend, I wanted to note Turkey Day,.....
.........and it seems if so the the Big Turkey in Radio, California's Mr. Ed, has keyboarded himself into still yet another self-inflected/infected embarrassing post!
Well,...I'm not going inspect, dissect, correct or re-direct anything about his scrappings of drivel, until I eat.

Fair warning:....empty your bladders, and be in a sitting position,....as I will be at my Best! Otherwise, you just might convulse into bust-a-move laughter, and piss yourself, in front of your girlfriend...........It'll be a few hours from now. Give thanks in prayer to God, where all comes from, and eat slow.

 

[davideduardo]

Holiday Greetingz, and Readingz Y'all! ...and just hours before, I both Gorge like a King, and Feast like a Fiend, I wanted to note Turkey Day,.....
.........and it seems if so the the Big Turkey in Radio, California's Mr. Ed, has keyboarded himself into still yet another self-inflected/infected embarrassing post!
Well,...I'm not going inspect, dissect, correct or re-direct anything about his scrappings of drivel, until I eat.

Fair warning:....empty your bladders, and be in a sitting position,....as I will be at my Best! Otherwise, you just might convulse into bust-a-move laughter, and piss yourself, in front of your girlfriend...........It'll be a few hours from now. Give thanks in prayer to God, where all comes from, and eat slow.

I can hardly wait for the next missive from your post at the corner of Pyle and Gump streets.

 

[Scooter Lesley]

I'll also learn you some patience. I'm still eating, and I might fancy a snooze..........Are you getting nervous?

 

[JeffM]

I can hardly wait for the next missive from your post at the corner of Pyle and Gump streets.

I agree. In fact, he's the biggest Pyle of Gump on this board.

 

[frankberry]

Stop the insults and name calling.

Frank

 

[davideduardo]

I'll also learn you some patience. I'm still eating, and I might fancy a snooze..........Are you getting nervous?

Not in the least. I've already explained that without a market, format, demo target and station context, your question can not be answered.

 

[Scooter Lesley]

Welllllll,...did y'all miss me? Scooter "Unanswerable Question" Lesley here with holiday thanks to Frank Berry for his last post. Now, on to the Radio Research problem of alleged music testing. Mr. Ed for some reason is all sucked in to the lie that this bad waste of good money has a value. The truth is Auditorium Music Tests are not worth the tree kill amount of paper that they are printed on. The lie was invented by a Pencilneck Constant to charge a station more money, and justify that they are actually doing something. They can't & don't work, due to the margin of error, directly connected to the ignorance of the public. You can go over the instructions to the group, several times, but they're gonna get it wrong, as they are only there for the chick-fil-a sandwich, and the $20 bill.

A case in point, Country Station WSSL, a few years back conducted one, with all knowing it was them doing so. After it was over, the Morning Drive guy was at the door to shake & thanks, as each departed the venue. One of them stopped, and asked for an autograph, and said.....now y'all listen carefully..........
"I just love your show...listen to You & Charlie every Morning.....and I got all those questions "Right"!

Now, here's the skinny: That was Bill Ellis at the door,...Bill Gardner & Charlie Munson were on WESC,...and how do you get answers "Right" on a music test?

 

[davideduardo]

Welllllll,...did y'all miss me? Scooter "Unanswerable Question" Lesley here with holiday thanks to Frank Berry for his last post. Now, on to the Radio Research problem of alleged music testing. Mr. Ed for some reason is all sucked in to the lie that this bad waste of good money has a value. The truth is Auditorium Music Tests are not worth the tree kill amount of paper that they are printed on. The lie was invented by a Pencilneck Constant to charge a station more money, and justify that they are actually doing something. They can't & don't work, due to the margin of error, directly connected to the ignorance of the public. You can go over the instructions to the group, several times, but they're gonna get it wrong, as they are only there for the chick-fil-a sandwich, and the $20 bill.

A case in point, Country Station WSSL, a few years back conducted one, with all knowing it was them doing so. After it was over, the Morning Drive guy was at the door to shake & thanks, as each departed the venue. One of them stopped, and asked for an autograph, and said.....now y'all listen carefully..........
"I just love your show...listen to You & Charlie every Morning.....and I got all those questions "Right"!

Now, here's the skinny: That was Bill Ellis at the door,...Bill Gardner & Charlie Munson were on WESC,...and how do you get answers "Right" on a music test?

You really do not know how a test is done. Or, perhaps, your only experience was with a badly done test.

First, consultants don't do tests. Stations, either under the corporate PD's advice or under that of a consultant, hire a research company to conduct a test.

The incentives today generally run in the $75 to $100 range, although I have seen as high as $150 for a one night test and $200 for two evenings of 2 hour sessions. A professional research recruiter is used to get respondents that match the station target.

Most tests today are not even done on paper as they use dials or are don on the internet. And respondents are told to score each song based on how much they'd like to hear it on the radio today. It's very simple and nobody misunderstands.

Mistaking what station has which talent is common. But the purpose of a test is to score songs, so it does not matter as the songs are the same no matter who plays them.

 

[JeffM]

In view of our moderator's remarks, I would like to extend my sincere apologies to Messrs. Forrest Gump and Gomer Pyle.

 

[Scooter Lesley]

Another Auditorium Music Test: Unannounced on a Monday, our main Consultant had sent one of his Goons to stop by. He said that he was there to take us, the Morning Team, to lunch. What that meant was we were going to have to listen to some spill, while he ate off one one of our trades. He was a little more gitty or bubbly than usual, as he announced a secret to us both. He was conducting a Music Test at the Auditorium, and he wanted all staff to stay clear, especially me & Mike(Benson). Well,...telling me that aroused my curiosity worse than ten cats, fresh from a sandbox orgy. Later that night, as every Monday night, I Ring Announced the Pro Wrestling matches, held in the same venue, as tomorrow night's test. I had been working in Pro Wrestling for the last six years. I also called Play-by-Play, when needed. I was taught that skill by the late Gordon Solie. As for that venue, I could come & go as I pleased; all access, at any time. So, the following night, Tuesday, the night of the test,....I put on a one piece navy coveralls, ponytailed up, put the hair under my hat, and walked in the service entrance. With a pair of binoculars, and a bag of popcorn, I climbed the ladder into the crow's nest, and waited.....(See Part Two later).

 

[davideduardo]

Another Auditorium Music Test: He was conducting a Music Test at the Auditorium,

Big Secret #127: "Auditorium Music Tests" are not conducted in public auditoriums. They are generally done at hotel meeting rooms or restaurant banquet rooms, with a few being done at places like community centers, church halls and the recruiter's own focus / test facilities.

Big Secret #128: Consultants don't conduct their own music tests (with rare and unfortunate exceptions). The station contracts a research company to do them. The consultant, for the few stations that even have them any more, may be part of formulating the recruit strategy, but that's it.

Big Secret #129: Music tests are generally groups of 50 to 100 persons, and it would be absurd to put them in a venue that holds thousands. In fact, if a station is testing 100 people, they will usually break the test into several sessions so that the song pods can be played in a different order to minimize fatigue effects.

Big Secret #130: Music tests today often are done by appointment at a small office location where groups of 1 to 5 people take a computer assisted test at their own convenience. In some cases, once recruited, respondents can take the test online.

Here is a photo tour of a typical 50 person test session in a hotel meeting room:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_AMT.htm

I can not wait for part deux of your delightful but far-fetched work of fiction. The first one had me doing the old ROTFLMFAO

 

[Scooter Lesley]

Well,....before I get into part two of "A View From The Crow's Nest", I have to do two more things: #1 Point-Out to the readers that Mr. Ed is so wrapped up in this Music Testing Horse Manure, that he believes every word of it. The truth is both the Lie & the Failure come from Consultants needing a crutch. When you make the changes, and pour the data into the music log software, that slates the playlist,....it's much of nothing in return. You walked into a drug store, and paid $55 for a bottle of aspirin.....a long run for a short slide. The margin of error makes the end result data not worth the paper it's print on!

Part 2 of "A View From The Crow's Nest",....after some leftover turkey sandwiches......Marv, where's the Manaze?

 

[davideduardo]

Well,....before I get into part two of "A View From The Crow's Nest", I have to do two more things: #1 Point-Out to the readers that Mr. Ed is so wrapped up in this Music Testing Horse Manure, that he believes every word of it.

I believe that a well programmed tested station will beat even a well programmed station where the music is not tested. I've had way too many experiences where I have beaten a direct competitor or where the team I was part of has done that based on playing tested songs vs. the competitor's untested list.

In one case, in a head on classic rock battle in a market of over 15 million we ended up with a 20 share and the untested station got a 1.8 eventually left the format. In another case, in a Top 15 market, testing kept us #1 for 22 consecutive years and over 60 books. I have dozens and dozens of such stories... and the only failures were where a local PD chose to ignore the research because they though testing was inaccurate.

The truth is both the Lie & the Failure come from Consultants needing a crutch.

Consultants don´t do tests. But most understand that tested music is the only way to win today.

When you make the changes, and pour the data into the music log software, that slates the playlist,....it's much of nothing in return.

You don't pour the data into the music scheduling software. You adjust your categories, rotations, sound codes, tempo and era codes and anything else relevant to create good flow and feel using the results of the new test. I've spent as much as a week tweaking the software to get the sound and flow I want. OTOH, it sounds like you prefer not to tweak but to twerk, instead.

The margin of error makes the end result data not worth the paper it's print on!

I have not seen a music test list "printed on paper" for more than a decade.

But that is a minor point. I've done replication studies, and the same list done for a second or third group of people on the same dates with the same recruit specs will yield results that are at the most off by perhaps 3%. Since programming does not need even that degree of precision to find the big hits and big stiffs, the results of a well conducted test are very, very accurate.

 

[Scooter Lesley]

Well,...not to disappoint: A View From The Crow's Nest....I had not been in one of these, since the last Foghat concert. To my good mate, and cheers, with few shots of fine Scotch, the late Lonesome Dave Peverett. With my binoculars I counted just under 50, brought there for the free food, bag of (worthless) coupons, and Oh?????....that $20 bill! In addition to them, was two sound men, a handful of interns, and of course the Goon, who was working for our Consultant. They tested a couple-a hundred hooks, enough redundancy to make any listener punch-out to anything else. Testing songs that were already toasted: Main Street,
So Caught Up In You,....Hurts So Good....ehhhh! About six weeks later, I saw one of our afternoon interns wheeling two sprocket paper boxes to the PD's office.
He spouted,...you see this? This is gonna make the difference...this is gonna set us apart, and up in the ratings. Well,....do you wanna guess the next part?
With all those findings fed into the Song Selector, we started a book. A flat book,...three books in a row. While a Country, and a AC, stayed easily ahead.
Reportedly, the station owner was billed $47-grand. After waiting for the pay-off, the owner fired the Consulting firm.....NEXT!

 

[JeffM]

I believe that a well programmed tested station will beat even a well programmed station where the music is not tested. I've had way too many experiences where I have beaten a direct competitor or where the team I was part of has done that based on playing tested songs vs. the competitor's untested list.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get muddy, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw.

 

[davideduardo]

Well,...not to disappoint: A View From The Crow's Nest....I had not been in one of these, since the last Foghat concert.

Despite the name, an Auditorium Music Test is not conducted in an Auditorium. It's done, as I said, in some kind of room that would accomodate 50 to 60 people, usually (although some companies will test as many as 100 at a time in a bit larger facility).

Rooms like that have no "crow's nest" or any other hidden point of observation. While there may be an adjacent meeting room where station staff can watch if the test is electronic, there is no way to sneak in to any test I have been a part of... and that's over 1000 AMTs.

With my binoculars I counted just under 50, brought there for the free food, bag of (worthless) coupons, and Oh?????....that $20 bill!

Binoculars... give me a break. A group of 50 people is not going to be tested in a venue that would hold tens of thousands. I've done tests even in college lecture halls, in community centers with "no guns allowed" signs, hundreds of hotels, quite a few banquet or wedding halls, some church halls otherwise used for bingo, and at a number of research company facilities, but never was the room so big I even had to put on my glasses.

In the last 20-some years, I have never heard of a test with an incentive of less than $50 for a 2 to 2 1/2 hour test.

In addition to them, was two sound men,

Sound men? You are kidding.

Long ago, the hooks were on cassettes. The research company brought a cassette player, a little amplifier (of the $60 Radio Shack kind) and some small monitor speakers and one person set them up on a folding table. Later, we did the same thing, but with portable CD players. And more recently, the hooks are on an MP3 player hooked directly into one of those little sound bars (or connected by bluetooth).

I never saw a "sound guy" and I attended my first test over 30 years ago.

a handful of interns,

Why would you need interns?

If there is staff there, it would be from the research company to play the hooks and moderate the session and from the recruiter to rescreen and, later, pay the respondents and, sometimes, top monitor the room.

and of course the Goon, who was working for our Consultant.

Unless the test is done electronically and there is a "viewing room" for the station PD and staff to watch on screens, I seldom hear of consultants going to tests.

They tested a couple-a hundred hooks, enough redundancy to make any listener punch-out to anything else. Testing songs that were already toasted:

A usual single session test might be about 500 hooks as well as sample verification questions, talent pods for jocks and morning shows, and a batch of perceptual questions. The songs tested would be everything in the station library, songs from close competitors and songs that used to test that are not being played that might have benefited from rest.

About six weeks later, I saw one of our afternoon interns wheeling two sprocket paper boxes to the PD's office.

The results, if printed, would be at the biggest, fit in a small notebook or binder. But for the last 15 years or so, the results are delivered electronically and loaded in software like Cornerstone's "Analyst".

With all those findings fed into the Song Selector, we started a book.

Obviously, you can't even identify Selector(tm) even though the software has been around for over 30 years. With that in mind, I think you are making all the rest of this up... starting with doing a music test in an arena that holds thousands...

 

[davideduardo]

About six weeks later, I saw one of our afternoon interns wheeling two sprocket paper boxes to the PD's office.
He spouted,...you see this? This is gonna make the difference...this is gonna set us apart, and up in the ratings.

I missed this laughable point the first time around...

Music tests done electronically are usually delivered the next morning. Ones done with paper that needs to be run through a Scantron-like process generally are delivered a few days later than that.

Six week delivery is absurd. By that time, the intelligence about currents and recurrents has likely changed significantly and a quarter of the lifespan of the test has gone by (for most formats, the most a test is truly valid for most formats is about 6 months... with the current and recurrent songs scores truly valid for less than 60 days).

 

[DudeFan]

Keep in Mind

David, keep in mind that "Scooter" was fired/not renewed from his radio gig almost 30 years ago and judging from his diatribes on how late 1970's/mid 1980's rock acts are somehow relevant in 2014 has probably ceased to have a grip on reality long before then.

A sad, obese man playing with his comic books and keeping up with minor-league pro wrestling on his basement computer.