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Really Crummey Story in the New York Times ...

I used to work at KFYI a couple years ago when Liddy and Hill left and Crummey changed times. I know of at least four people who went to Laurie Cantillo and complained about it just not right for someone to do a show from out of state and act like their at the station.

I was told it was how radio was changing and that it was still a local show. It was classic cheap channel.

I knew this was going to come back to haunt KFYI someday. I'm surprised it took this long.
 
First of all, Phoenix is never an hour behind LA. It's the other way around.

More importantly, the dopey listeners on the PDISU's blog have their own panties in a bunch over nothing. A guy in Tucson bitching about CC doing his news from World Domination HQ on Van Buren? Give me a break! Much better stations in much bigger markets get their news from other places. WTAM/Cleveland's newsroom does casts for #1 and #2 talkers in Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, et al. KNST/Tucson has better sounding news than any of the other stations in the market. I thought it was about "serving the public"? Well, if you're getting up-to-date news, who cares if it's being fed from Phoenix or Timbuktu? Just another gripe, which KTAR is taking a bit too seriously. No one who listens to Crummey will stop. And most important of all, 92.3 can brag about being live and local, yadda yadda, all day long, but if CC wanted to, they could make KFYI all live and local tomorrow. Then they'd be even, except KT'R would still be boring. And without any petty schoolyard fights to pick.
 
My bad on the hour difference, by the time I caught it, it was too late...

(so I thought I could get away with it, but no! you caught me!)


LOL
 
Legend City said:
My bad on the hour difference, by the time I caught it, it was too late...

(so I thought I could get away with it, but no! you caught me!)


LOL
Click to expand...

Quite alright... but what this is about CC being cheap? Do they not still have to pay Crummey a salary like any other local host, as well as have a producer, etc? How exactly is it operating on the cheap? Is Crummey doing shows for five other stations? ::)
 
Exactly.

And, Austin Hill does several shows for KFI in LA while he lives in PHX.

And, another KFYI host does a show out of ****** and no one seems to care. (because no one listens to that show)
 
You mean to tell me that all those satellite networks from ABC, Jones & Dial Global that say, "It's ten past the hour" are really NOT in my town? You mean they're in Dallas or Split Lip, Ill. or someplace? You mean that squillions of listeners in East Podunck haven't been in on that deal that is now, what, 20 years old?

And we're all grateful to the New York Times for exposing the fact that Crummey is in El Lay doing a Phoenix talk show and some smarmy PD has his knickers in a bunch over it...now? Like he didn't know? I think Rush gets a pass on this...he admits to being (or, rather, Johnny Donovan does,) at the "EIB Southern Command in sunny south Florida," and once in awhile, I hear a weekend host on KGO say he's really in Long Beach, but who really gives a rip? I think giving out those toll free 800 numbers for CD prizes in entire states with one area code is just as disingenuous... ::) What's the saying about "People who live in glass houses...?" Sounds like sour grapes to me, considering that at least voice trackers tell the complete time in their markets...at least most of the time. ;D

If Joe Crummey and others didn't "sound" live and local from wherever they are on the planet, I would doubt if they'd be on the air, no matter how one perceives the company serving this kind of "wizard behind the curtain" stuff.
 
advertisingguy said:
I work in sales at a radio station other than the two you guys are all arguing about. I just looked up the numbers. You're all wrong. Here's the truth. KFYI beats KTAR in 12+ and 25-54 M-Su 6a-midnight. KTAR beats KFYI in 12+ and 25-54 in AMD, PMD, Eve, and SaSu. KFYI kills KTAR in 10a-3p in all demos. KTAR has a much higher 12+ and 25-54 total persons listening than KFYI in all dayparts. KFYI has a much higher time spent listening 12+ and 25-54 than KTAR.

Bottom line, KFYI is winning in AQH overall and the lead is all coming from 10a-3p. It is true they are trailing KTAR in every other daypart in AQH. I've never really looked at all these numbers this closely. This does look like a dogfight like KNIX and KMLE.
Click to expand...
Class, please open your ratings books to trend Mar 07, now it's time to learn how to read a ratings book. Rule number one, higher numbers are better, they indicate that more people are listening in a given time as compared with stations with LOWER numbers. Anyone may attempt to spin the following, however in the latest trends KFYI beats KTAR in 12+ and 25-54m 6a-8a (weekdays) PERIOD. In 12+ KFYI wins, in 25-54m it's by about a 2-1 margin. I wish I could post the numbers, or a screen shot for you just to demonstrate. Oh well.

Also, my radio comrade, please understand that KTAR's numbers are AMAZINGLY deceiving because both AM/FM stations are combined. KFYI beats KTAR in spite of the fact that the numbers of their "competitor" are combined. Let's see the trouncing when the two stations are seperated. My guess: KT'R FM will have a whopping 3.1 overall and KTAR-AM will have a stunning 1.0-1.2 overall 12+.

Again, whine about Joe Crummey all you want, but while you're carrying on, just know that your ship has struck the valley radio iceberg and is taking on water. I don't think McBland has a big enough bucket to bail you out.

Is there water filling up the ship where you are?
 
What's interesting is that Crummey listeners don't mind being lied to^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H, er deceived… …I reckon that's par for the course for GWB loyalists…
 
Like I've said before I don't have a dog in this fight. But you guys should tell the truth.

KMGX is wrong when he quotes the trend numbers for 6am-8am. Trends only show standard Arbitron day parts. You can only see 6-10am or 10am-3pm, etc in trends. You can not see 6am-8am in a trend. Like I said before, KFYI and KTAR can both claim success in the numbers. The real winner in ratings these days is KHOT - spanish music.
 
advertisingguy said:
Like I've said before I don't have a dog in this fight. But you guys should tell the truth.

KMGX is wrong when he quotes the trend numbers for 6am-8am. Trends only show standard Arbitron day parts. You can only see 6-10am or 10am-3pm, etc in trends. You can not see 6am-8am in a trend. Like I said before, KFYI and KTAR can both claim success in the numbers. The real winner in ratings these days is KHOT - spanish music.
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Sigh: When I quoted 6-8am I was quoting from the book, the trends are 6-10a, and that is where KFYI dominates. As it does in most dayparts, save nights.

KT'R can only claim success because two frequencies are added together, which is quite questionable ethically. I haven't seen it done before in a major market and it's raised eyebrows among many program directors, GMs and the like, believe me.

KT"R can quote their cume all they want, but it's really a poor reflection of the "real numbers", because again, they combine TWO FREQUENCIES in the survey. So naturally when you have TWO frequencies, you are likely to have a higher cume. The real interesting stat is the AQH numbers. People that listen for less time are less likely to hear advertisements or stick around to hear them. Whereas people that listen for a longer period of time are more likely to hear advertising and are generally more loyal to a station/show. As someone in the advertising department, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that advertisers are more interested in having more people actually HEAR their ad as opposed to some trumped up statistics boasting higher cume totals when we all know the only reason for their higher cume is multiple frequencies.

Not to mention, FM dial listeners are more likely to tune around than AM--as AM is mostly talk dominated and people listen for longer intervals. KT'R can tout their "most listeners" idea for several more weeks, but just wait until you see the next full book, you'll be impressed with just how far the mighty have fallen.
 
I don't know when KTAR started having both numbers but I don't think it was in the spring and summer and those numbers show KTAR beating KFYI in 12+ total persons listening and 25-54 total persons listening. Isn't that when KTAR only had an AM station?

My expertise is in what advertisers prefer and quite honestly, you're out of your league here. Your ratings numbers are wrong and now your advertising information is incorrect. Big legendary stations like KTAR always win that contest. I don't know access to the numbers right now, but if you look up KTAR and KFYI so far this year you will see that KTAR is drawing in more ad dollars than any other Phoenix radio station. That should tell you all you need to know about which station advertisers prefer.

When you mention the next book I do agree with you there. I think it will take KTAR a while to recover from the Phoenix Suns no longer on KTAR. I would expect their ratings to be down in the next few Arbitron ratings periods.
 
advertisingguy said:
I don't know when KTAR started having both numbers but I don't think it was in the spring and summer and those numbers show KTAR beating KFYI in 12+ total persons listening and 25-54 total persons listening. Isn't that when KTAR only had an AM station?

My expertise is in what advertisers prefer and quite honestly, you're out of your league here. Your ratings numbers are wrong and now your advertising information is incorrect. Big legendary stations like KTAR always win that contest. I don't know access to the numbers right now, but if you look up KTAR and KFYI so far this year you will see that KTAR is drawing in more ad dollars than any other Phoenix radio station. That should tell you all you need to know about which station advertisers prefer.

When you mention the next book I do agree with you there. I think it will take KTAR a while to recover from the Phoenix Suns no longer on KTAR. I would expect their ratings to be down in the next few Arbitron ratings periods.
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If someone tunes by a station, but doesn't stick around to listen, then that says something about the content. KFYI is able to charge a higher compensatory ad rate simply because their AQH is significantly greater than KTAR in key demos during key day-parts in both the trends and in full books.

I decided to give a call to someone I know in advertising in a similar market size comparative to Phoenix. I asked if advertisers prefer higher "tune-in" or cume numbers versus the preference of longer lasting, loyal listeners (higher AQH) data. He indicated that some advertisers really don't care and it's all about what numbers you decide to quote. As they say, there's lies, damn lies and then statistics. However, he also indicated that in his THIRTY years of experience, the AQH carries far more weight in the industry and with advertisers than does a boastful claim of someone passing by the station and listening for 3 minutes then tuning out when the stop set begins. Again, I'd be more than happy to post specific data, just can't do it here unfortunately.

You see, it used to be that KTAR beat KFYI in almost every book, quarter after quarter, trend after trend, year after year. Now, everyone has to come up with creative spin to show KTAR is still ahead, wonder why that is... it couldn't be that the mighty hermitage talker got complacent and decided that toaster-talk was better than trying to be competitive could it? Just like the American automobile industry, In 1965 you wouldn't dream of buying a foreign car, but in 2007, the quality and affordibility of MOST foreign vehicles is preferred. In 1985, KTAR was king, Pat McBland had a vacuum cleaner salesman on the air discussing various types of vacuums, new vacuum technology and how to buy a good vacuum (absolutely true by the way), and another talk station decided there was a better way of entertaining the audience, now in 2007, McBland is still talking to insurance salesmen, doctors and travel agents on the air, while KFYI tackles more substantive issues--anything is more substantive by comparison. Bottom line, the market has become very competitive and it's quite clear how much it has become that way when people have to spin the statistics in such a way. "Well, the Suns lost by 5 last night, but they dominated the offensive rebounds". Great.
 
Where's David?

I thought he would chime in on this thread by now...........................
 
KMGX said:
I decided to give a call to someone I know in advertising in a similar market size comparative to Phoenix. I asked if advertisers prefer higher "tune-in" or cume numbers versus the preference of longer lasting, loyal listeners (higher AQH) data. He indicated that some advertisers really don't care and it's all about what numbers you decide to quote. As they say, there's lies, damn lies and then statistics. However, he also indicated that in his THIRTY years of experience, the AQH carries far more weight in the industry and with advertisers than does a boastful claim of someone passing by the station and listening for 3 minutes then tuning out when the stop set begins. Again, I'd be more than happy to post specific data, just can't do it here unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Ad sales are driven (at the agency level, at least) almost 100% by AQH listening, as that is the way cost per point (CPP) is determined since AQH persons, share and rating are all representations of the same thing... the average number of people who will hear an ad. Cume only says how many tune a station for at least 5 minutes in a week, but can not quantify how much an ad is worth. Cume is used in reach and frequency calculations, by which an advertiser can determine how many ads are needed per station to reach, let's say, 60% of the listeners 3 times a week... but alone, cume is not a metric for ad buying as it does not tell you how many listeners each ad has.

As for KTAR, all they did was move old-leaning programming to FM in the hopes of attracting 35-54's. The concept is beautiful, but they still have a lot to do with the programming first.
 
advertisingguy said:
Like I've said before I don't have a dog in this fight. But you guys should tell the truth.

KMGX is wrong when he quotes the trend numbers for 6am-8am. Trends only show standard Arbitron day parts. You can only see 6-10am or 10am-3pm, etc in trends. You can not see 6am-8am in a trend. Like I said before, KFYI and KTAR can both claim success in the numbers. The real winner in ratings these days is KHOT - spanish music.
Click to expand...

Actually, the bulk of KHOT's numbers come from 5 AM to noon, which is talk.
 
KMGX said:
You see, it used to be that KTAR beat KFYI in almost every book, quarter after quarter, trend after trend, year after year. Now, everyone has to come up with creative spin to show KTAR is still ahead, wonder why that is... it couldn't be that the mighty hermitage talker got complacent and decided that toaster-talk was better than trying to be competitive could it? Just like the American automobile industry, In 1965 you wouldn't dream of buying a foreign car, but in 2007, the quality and affordibility of MOST foreign vehicles is preferred. In 1985, KTAR was king, Pat McBland had a vacuum cleaner salesman on the air discussing various types of vacuums, new vacuum technology and how to buy a good vacuum (absolutely true by the way), and another talk station decided there was a better way of entertaining the audience, now in 2007, McBland is still talking to insurance salesmen, doctors and travel agents on the air, while KFYI tackles more substantive issues--anything is more substantive by comparison. Bottom line, the market has become very competitive and it's quite clear how much it has become that way when people have to spin the statistics in such a way. "Well, the Suns lost by 5 last night, but they dominated the offensive rebounds". Great.
Click to expand...

Actually, they both are in a "race to the bottom", as listeners abandon radio in droves due to the heavily commercial laden, innundated PR flacks galore, shrill hosts catering to extremist partisan ideologues, vulgar trashy fare, etc.… in favor of iPod, satellite radio, podcasts. etc.…. So sad, because AM/FM has such an advantage that you don't need an expensive computer, pricey electronic gadget, subscription lock-in, technical know-how… …instead, crap of increasing abundance and odor keeps getting shoveled to listeners…

…some decent programming that provided information and insight would catapult a news/talk station to the top. Not overnight, mind you, but once word of mouth sufficiently permeated…
 
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