Rebecca Black and the Death of Mainstream Rock

[TheBigA]

I just checked BDS Top 40 and HAC and it's nowhere to be seen.

The other chart it's not on is Big Champagne. And that's interesting, because Big Champagne measures P2P and social media exchange of music. That's where I go to see what's happening below the surface. And other than YouTube, there's not a lot going on with this song. So I did a little digging and found that the song hasn't sold well on iTunes. Considering it has over 80 million YouTube views, it's sold less than 100K copies. Rebecca's father says they haven't made any money. That says more about the trickle down system of the music business than anything else.

So what's the real story here? Is it possible a small group of fans are simply playing the song over and over at YouTube to drive up the plays to get attention? Does that kind of trickery deserve airplay? There was an old story that Brian Epstein, manager of The Beatles and owner of NEMS, a small chain of record stores, ordered boxes of their first records to attract attention. There are lots of similar stories.

I'm a little surprised there really hasn't been any serious investigation by a music journalist into this story. What I have learned is that Rebecca's mother paid $2000 to a record label (ARK) in Hollywood to record the song. Rebecca's family owns the master recording, while the label retains the publishing. Any radio airplay would result in a royalty for the writer and publisher, assuming they're represented by a PRO. So it's in the label's self interest to get traditional airplay. Perhaps someone will do more digging. I can understand a radio station's reluctance to play a song that's not on a major label, that doesn't have established representation, and that's simply getting a bunch of YouTube hits. Especially one that's getting so much negative reaction. But is there a bigger story? My sense is that there is.

 

[Element9]

Good perspective. You may have dug deeper than any music journalist thus far, but then again, you ARE the Big A. My sense is that most CHR's see (or hear) this song as a novelty item and perhaps not even a good one at that. It also may be that PDs and MDs (especially in the majors) have done the same digging you have and said, "there's more than enough 'good' product to be considered over this 'vanity' hit... pass."

 

[BJC]

It's Manic Monday all over again AND sorry when I heard it thought it was a hit. Guess the old ears ain't gone yet...

 

[SirRoxalot]

Compared to what's out there, it ain't the worst song. The reason that there may not be as many iTunes downloads is simple. The audio that accompanies the YouTube video is pretty darn good - especially to ears that are used to listening to MP3s. Why pay for it when you can simply record the YouTube audio? It ain't hard to do.

I can't believe that the song has created so much discussion. She's simply trying to follow the Taylor Swift - Justin Bieber - et alia model to pop success. The song is hardly the end of Mainstream Rock. If she wants to cash in, she'll simply have to sell her soul to the right "Starmaker Machine". Sounds like she picked the wrong record company.

 

[umtrr-author]

Was away and offline for the weekend... so let me pick up on my item about JazzTrax.

I said,

(although I do wish Art would talk a little less and play music a little more).

When Lee says that Art Good is quite chatty, I would agree. There's no question that he is quite the promoter of the "smooth jazz" subset of all that is jazz, which, as a fan, I appreciate. But it's been my observation that he's become more chatty lately, let's say within the last year or so. I don't mind when he talks about or to the artists, but I do mind when it's at the expense of being able to hear a significant part of the actual song that's being discussed. When JazzTrax "breaks" a song for example, it may be my first and only chance to hear that song (unless Lee adds it! ) and decide whether I want to get it (legally, hard copy or purchased download) and I'd like to be able to hear it start to finish. It seems to me that this is happening less frequently on Art's show. There also is a segment of Jazz Trax that is a countdown of the top tracks of the week, and it seems that it's becoming more snippets than full tracks.

I realize that I should have worded my comment differently, in some corners of this board, them's fightin' words! I wasn't implying that I don't like personality radio in general. But I believe we'd all agree there's a balancing act. My opinion (free and worth at least that much) is that Art's show is going a little too far in the talking direction and he needs to let more of the songs play.

Jim, I appreciate the complement that you thought there might be a "teachable moment" in there-- and as you can tell, I am a fan of radio in general. (And of trains!) But I do think this is just a very specific example, and I'm sorry if I implied differently.

Lee, thanks for the clip of Kilissa. I'm very happy to see she's still playing music. When my wife and I listen to the Jazzabels' music, we can't help but think "what if."

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

No apology necessary, umtrr. Your initial post was well stated and your follow-up explained your perception. In our business, perception almost always becomes an immediate reality. Radio, especially today, needs "fans." When we read comments like yours, it gives us food for thought. And trust me, if you've ever had the chance to read comments from Arbitron diaries, by comparison, your comments were collegial.

 

[chas108]

The other chart it's not on is Big Champagne. And that's interesting, because Big Champagne measures P2P and social media exchange of music. That's where I go to see what's happening below the surface. And other than YouTube, there's not a lot going on with this song. So I did a little digging and found that the song hasn't sold well on iTunes. Considering it has over 80 million YouTube views, it's sold less than 100K copies. Rebecca's father says they haven't made any money. That says more about the trickle down system of the music business than anything else.

I've not heard much about Big Champagne, I'm gonna have to check it out. On Ultimate Chart...they're supposed to be a catchall of radio, sales and internet activity, "Friday" reached #15. That was a couple weeks ago.

Whatever the case...I think Rebecca Black's fame clock is at 15:01. My original point was that here's a song - yes a vanity song, a novelty - but still, a song with a lot of internet buzz...more buzz than Lady GaGa's "Born This Way"...that doesn't sound all that different from some of the lower-rent inhabitants of Top 40, why not play it and at least sound like you're tapped-in to that moment in time? (And when the moment passes, ditch it like Leif Garrett and the DeFranco Family?)

In retrospect...at least immediately, radio was right to pass. And BigA, your observations are spot-on. For all the views, and two ABC-TV appearances, at least - those are disappointing iTunes numbers. And I'd love to see a serious investigation into the "Friday" phenomenon. Was somebody behind the scenes manipulating YouTube stats?

Most importantly, can YouTube and other social networking sites generate a hit without the benefit of a record company? I've heard that "Fall For You" by Secondhand Serenade broke from MySpace. Might we see the day that a song closer to "I Want To Hold Your Hand" in quality and societal impact breaks from such sources?

Again, if the decision to not play "Friday" was based on the song's merits - or lack thereof - fine.

But if it was simply because "Friday" didn't come to the public's attention thru the usual channels...then I think we have to look at the possibility that someday, YouTube and social media may supplant Top 40 as the main source of pop music discovery. I don't think any of us reading these boards want to see that day...and I don't think it has to happen. It shouldn't be "either/or"...I like "both/and"...like Top 40 and MTV back-in-the-day when MTV actually played videos...

Compared to what's out there, it ain't the worst song. The reason that there may not be as many iTunes downloads is simple. The audio that accompanies the YouTube video is pretty darn good - especially to ears that are used to listening to MP3s. Why pay for it when you can simply record the YouTube audio? It ain't hard to do.

I can't believe that the song has created so much discussion. She's simply trying to follow the Taylor Swift - Justin Bieber - et alia model to pop success. The song is hardly the end of Mainstream Rock. If she wants to cash in, she'll simply have to sell her soul to the right "Starmaker Machine". Sounds like she picked the wrong record company.

SirRox...I think it's all in the way it was done...and when. With all the hype "Born This Way" received, to be upstaged by Rebecca Black was certainly s story.

No...this isn't the death of Mainstream Rock...that train, loaded with fragmentation, radio playin' it safe, changing public tastes...left the station long before Rebecca was a gleam in her parent's eyes.

But I'm feeling a sense of temporary relief...and you're gonna laugh...but American Idol contestant James Durbin has been rockin' the house every week and I'm just wondering if he were to win and then with Jimmy Iovine's backing actually put out a hit rock album...that's a LOT of "what if's"...but maybe, just maybe, rock might find its way back into the mainstream.

Then again...the rock classics that we older guys here on this board grew up with, seem to be filling that void quite nicely.

 

[TheBigA]

Most importantly, can YouTube and other social networking sites generate a hit without the benefit of a record company?

Depends on how you define a hit. The question I think we're asking is can YouTube generate a hit without airplay. I think the answer is no, if we're talking about the kind of hit that drives action, such as purchase or ticket sales. And if it doesn't generate either of those things, then it's more of a novelty or, as you say, a vanity song. At some point we'll need to know how many of those YouTube hits are from unique individual users and how many are attained by putting the player on endless repeat.

 

[GeorgeKramer]

Is Rebecca Black still a hit? Other than the YouTube video and one song, is her 15 minutes of fame over?

 

[chas108]

Is Rebecca Black still a hit? Other than the YouTube video and one song, is her 15 minutes of fame over?

I think it's long over although I still hear "Friday" referenced and ridiculed seemingly everywhere. Lady GaGa moved 1,000,000-plus units of Born This Way her first week...biggest Billboard 200 debut in five years. Seems like everything's back to normal...whatever constitutes "normal" these days.

Adele's the story in pop this year as far as I'm concerned, whether she goes down as a fluke in a sea of Dance-Pop - or points to the next evolution in Pop remains to be seen. I hope it's the latter although if Top 40 misreads it either way it's another opportunity for Country to pick up disaffected Pop fans.

I'll say it again - someday something will break on YouTube that if ignored by Pop radio will lead to its downfall.

 

[umtrr-author]

Is Rebecca Black still a hit? Other than the YouTube video and one song, is her 15 minutes of fame over?

I hadn't checked for a while, and "Friday" is up to over 159 million hits on YouTube. And over three million "dislikes". But if my daughter's interest in the song is a soft metric, then yes, it's over and then some. She's moved on to Christina Perri, and stuck with "Glee." I am surprised that Lady Gaga's new one isn't already in the house, but it isn't.

Meanwhile, I'll offer a song I like a lot more, and for those of you who know I like trains and radio-- and that I'm from "Joisey"-- this one is right up my alley. It hits my personal trifecta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnpKvK2n52s

The video was shot at the Hoboken Terminal of the Lackawanna Railroad (still active for NJ Transit) and on the Morris County Central tourist line, all in my native state.

 

[SirRoxalot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnpKvK2n52s
The video was shot at the Hoboken Terminal of the Lackawanna Railroad (still active for NJ Transit) and on the Morris County Central tourist line, all in my native state.

Wow. Gives you an idea of what the old Central Terminal in Buffalo used to look like.

 

[chas108]

Meanwhile, I'll offer a song I like a lot more, and for those of you who know I like trains and radio-- and that I'm from "Joisey"-- this one is right up my alley. It hits my personal trifecta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnpKvK2n52s

The video was shot at the Hoboken Terminal of the Lackawanna Railroad (still active for NJ Transit) and on the Morris County Central tourist line, all in my native state.

Proof positive there's still some great pop music being made.

 

[chas108]

My oldest son and his band, Roundhand Rowan, just left the house to go practice for a gig.

Here's a video of one of their songs...featuring elements of metal and hardcore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CVNYmb5B08

If Modern Rock/Alternative formats had taken more interest in these more extreme styles of Rock instead of holding onto the '90's so tightly...the situation for Rock may be different.

Then again, maybe not.

I don't see music like this ever becoming mainstream - not anytime soon anyway, and in any case, never achieving the fame of the Rock icons with which we all grew up.

The irony is that as Rock heads underground, bands like these seem to gain great success among a far smaller - but more rabid - core of followers. Five years ago not having a major label deal was a glass ceiling. Now it's a badge of honor as a group of small indies release this music; like 1960's Motown where everyone knew what to expect from that imprint, fans see those indie labels and know that's where they can find their favorite bands.

FWIW...I think you can see a parallel after the Big Band/Jazz era gave way to solo singers and MOR style music in the late 40's. Count Basie's "April In Paris" hit in 1956, for example...and there were Jazz crossover songs doing quite well even in the early 60's. And after that, the genre didn't totally disappear off the Pop Culture radar for a long time. What about Jazz-influenced acts like Chase, BS&T and Tower of Power? And the Rock band with horns, Chicago?

But for those willing to look, I'm sure they can find great Jazz being made today. Just don't expect it to play alongside Katy Perry or Adele. It's in the underground.

This is how it could well play out with Mainstream Rock moving forward...something too good to miss pops up from the underground, or maybe a few somebodies create a mini-trend within the larger trend of whatever Pop is going to do.

And for most of us of a Certain Age, "Rock" increasingly means "Classic Rock".

I'll leave you with the words of the great songwriter Bobby Braddock, as sung by Tracy Lawrence in his 1995 Country hit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffS4szr1cw

 

[SirRoxalot]

There have always been artists pushing music beyond the mainstream. Vanilla Fudge was hardly a household name in the '60s, but well known to the denizens of "underground" radio. Even Motown faced a split over whether to churn out pop hits, or more socially relevant music as times changed. There's a long way between "The Way You Do the Things You Do" by the Temptations in the mid 60s, "Cloud Nine" in '68, and "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone" in the early 70s.

The mainstream has always been the synthesis of disparate influences produced by more adventurous artists. The biggest difference now is that there's no on-air outlet for those more disparate influences. At one time, FM was the afterthought. You either ran semi-automated pap, or turned it over to a bunch of hooligans who worked crazy hours for little money. Some of those hooligans created some pretty interesting - and some pretty awful - radio that influenced a lot of people both inside and outside of the business.

Nowadays, there's no on-air outlet for that kind of programming. Radio's big business. Conformity is rewarded, and non-conformity is punished. Creativity's gone to the Internet, where people either build on-line stations, or produce their own music using tools that were unavailable to previous generations. On-line stations are less common, mostly because of the restrictive costs imposed by Music First, and the short attention span of today's youth.

There always have been, and likely always will be, rabid fans of off-beat genres. What's more worrisome is the lack of innovation in mainstream programming. It hurts the entire industry when nobody's fiven a chance to fail. It means that very few people are given a chance to succeed beyond the "norms".

 

[umtrr-author]

And it appears that the "Friday" saga may now be over, except for the lawsuits:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jun/17/rebecca-black-friday-video-youtube

Fair use quote:

She has amassed nearly as many "dislikes" as she has YouTube viewers since unleashing her debut song Friday earlier this year, but now Rebecca Black's detested single has been removed from the international video site owing to a dispute with her record label.

According to TMZ, the record label Ark Music claims it owns the rights to Rebecca Black's image and set up "Friday" as a "rental" video on YouTube. Obviously, Rebecca Black disagrees... let the litigation begin...

 

[flashback]

And it appears that the "Friday" saga may now be over, except for the lawsuits:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jun/17/rebecca-black-friday-video-youtube

Fair use quote:

She has amassed nearly as many "dislikes" as she has YouTube viewers since unleashing her debut song Friday earlier this year, but now Rebecca Black's detested single has been removed from the international video site owing to a dispute with her record label.

According to TMZ, the record label Ark Music claims it owns the rights to Rebecca Black's image and set up "Friday" as a "rental" video on YouTube. Obviously, Rebecca Black disagrees... let the litigation begin...

i did not like the song at all but i definatly was not the target audiance.

that is not important.what is important is this. if the family of rebecka black paid the record label to produce the video how come suddenly after all this time the record lable owns the video now?do they claim to own the song outright?

it sure seems like an attempt for the label with its battery of lawlyers trying to use the courts to steal a song from people who probally have no chance to buy equal legal help now that the song is popular.

 

[TheBigA]

if the family of rebecka black paid the record label to produce the video how come suddenly after all this time the record lable owns the video now?do they claim to own the song outright?

it sure seems like an attempt for the label with its battery of lawlyers trying to use the courts to steal a song from people who probally have no chance to buy equal legal help now that the song is popular.

You're rushing to judgement without knowing the facts. Black's family didn't pay for the video. Here's the deal the parents signed:

ARK's business centers on the recruitment/discovery of new young singers. The artists (or their parents) pay a $2,000 to $4,000 fee to ARK, and ARK then writes and produces music in collaboration with these artists, often producing music videos and promotion of the songs. The singer owns the master recording, and ARK retains publishing rights to the song and all the sales from the song.

So the video was produced and paid for by ARK, not the parents. It costs a lot more than $4K to produce a music video. Even the one for this song. This is a case of anxious parents not reading the contract. So the video has had millions of views, but they haven't seen any money from it. ARK owns the rights to the song and sales from the song. That includes rentals from the video.

 

[chas108]

if the family of rebecka black paid the record label to produce the video how come suddenly after all this time the record lable owns the video now?do they claim to own the song outright?

it sure seems like an attempt for the label with its battery of lawlyers trying to use the courts to steal a song from people who probally have no chance to buy equal legal help now that the song is popular.

You're rushing to judgement without knowing the facts. Black's family didn't pay for the video. Here's the deal the parents signed:

ARK's business centers on the recruitment/discovery of new young singers. The artists (or their parents) pay a $2,000 to $4,000 fee to ARK, and ARK then writes and produces music in collaboration with these artists, often producing music videos and promotion of the songs. The singer owns the master recording, and ARK retains publishing rights to the song and all the sales from the song.

So the video was produced and paid for by ARK, not the parents. It costs a lot more than $4K to produce a music video. Even the one for this song. This is a case of anxious parents not reading the contract. So the video has had millions of views, but they haven't seen any money from it. ARK owns the rights to the song and sales from the song. That includes rentals from the video.

Good point, A.

IIRC the parents' investment was $2000 plus another $2000 went into the video. I find this whole deal looking worse and worse in retrospect. The key to any real revenue is the publishing rights and sales...it's like owning a car but someone else gets to drive it. No skin off ARK's nose to tell the family they own the master, because all the rights are tied up by ARK.

That said, Rebecca told ABC Nightline she had indeed made money off the YouTube hits, stating the site had recently introduced a policy of commissions off ads posted at the link, based on hits...and at 100 million hits, it had generated a few thousand bucks (I don't think she knew a specific figure), all given to charity if I recall.


Meanwhile to the other point in my original post...

http://blogs.forbes.com/zackomalleygreenburg/2011/06/15/the-worlds-highest-paid-musicians/

I realize ticket prices and merch deals greatly affect who's on the list but still, depending on where you classify Dave Matthews (whose biggest hits were all before 2000), Muse is the only current Mainstream Rock act to land on this list.
The top three (U2, Bon Jovi, Elton) and seven total are all Classic Rock/Classic Hits. Six of them are Country, six reside in or frequently visit R&B/Hip-Hop land but yet all but Jay-Z and Diddy are core to Mainstream Top 40 alongside Katy, GaGa and Bieber (I'd call Jay-Z and Diddy "frequently welcome guests" with long pedigrees at Top 40, but I'm probably splitting hairs.) And props to Michael Buble, placing Traditional Pop at #5.

 

[TheBigA]

and at 100 million hits, it had generated a few thousand bucks (I don't think she knew a specific figure), all given to charity if I recall.

Cool! So she probably made back her original investment. Who says you can't make money in the music business? ))