Sales and Popular Music on a Non-Comm: Original HKC Revisited

[Nu_Roo_2]

Back when WHKC 91.5 debuted with that great 80's-focused music mix and stuck with it quite awhile, there was debate here about whether that could possibly be the intended long-term format. Aside from the fact that the ownership entity was named "Christian Broadcasting Services," people questioned whether secular, non-specialty music could be viable in the non-commercial band.

Then, when WHKC started airing infomercials, there was also debate about how close a non-comm could inch toward commercializing without jeopardizing its license.

Well, I was recently driving to Chicago and ran across a station in Lebanon, Indiana, about 30 miles NW of Indy on I-65. It was 91.1, WIRE. It played popular contemporary music, had a live-sounding DJ, locally-focused news, and contesting. The moniker was, "91-dot-1, Radio Mom, Your Hit Music Station."

I didn't hear any commercials during the appx 30 minutes I listened, but now see that their website (http://www.radiomom.fm) actually has a section called "Sales," even though it is described as underwriting when you click the link. Also in the Sales section is this interesting description of the the station:

"What is RadioMom? RadioMom is Lebanon and Boone County's local radio station. During the day, RadioMom plays music to reach Adults between the ages 25-54. During the evening it will play Hot Adult Contemporary created to reach the younger listener between the ages of 12 and 24. Remember; always listen to your Mom!!!"

(The Hot AC for 12-24 part is interesting in light of recent discussion about NCI getting tagged Hot AC in some trades.)

Lebanon, Ind isn't exactly Columbus, but this got me to wondering if perhaps HKC *could* have survived with the secular 80's-focused music and creative "non-commercial commercials."

Any thoughts, opinions?

 

[V.Riley]

The way public radio and even more so public television is lately, it would seem that they are playing commercials, just doing so near the top and or bottom of the hour, and reduced to just stating "facts", not to be confused with hype.

If HKC could find the sponsors.... uh, I mean underwriters, I'm certain they could have continued with their 80s mix format. To be honest, they pulled me away from other local commercial stations that I was listening to, until they flipped to the non-80s format.

 

[KFodor]

Well, the reality of it is:

There's no law that says a non-comm can't air any musical format that it wants, broadcast over the air Public Service Announcements in stop set form, stream on the internet and sell commercial advertising during those stop-sets on the internet stream.

They can also sell underwriting announcements which could air at the top (and maybe even) bottom of every hour, and urge donations from the public. (Which could be Unit #1 in their "stop sets" on the air?)

While I know Vince, and others would love an 80's station, it almost makes me wonder what might happen if a non-comm would actually put on a good "oldies" station (since commercial radio won't support that format for the most part). Seems PBS does OK with donations airing the "Doo Wop" programs and "Soul Spectaculars" on TV, would oldies fans listen and cut, say...a $100 check once a year to a non-comm that aired the programming they like? With the large number of baby-boomers out there, if you could get a cume audience of 80-thousand or so (which is possible even on a Class A in Columbus) and get only 10% of that audience to send a check, that would equate to an annual revenue of $800,000...more than enough to keep the transmitter on.

Get 25% of the cume to annually donate, and the annual revenue would be in 7-figures. And, there are a lot of radio people who know how to program that format. It would just have to be done well. And yes, some investment into imaging and jingles and music would have to made upfront.

Just a thought.

 

[adamcarrington]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

 

[willcail]

This is why I can't wait when the XM/Sirius receivers to come out so I can get my radio music. To be honest I don't listen much to Columbus FM radio anymore. Here is a small list:

WTDA for the weekends when cleaning the Apartment. Bob and Tom and Kim Kommando

WCBE/WOSU for Wait Wait Don't Tell Me and Car Talk and Morning Ed.

WOAB A great mix of music.

Of course WCRS for Dem Now and their music shows.

CC owned stations not so much. Maybe 105.7 The Brew when I'm in the mood.

 

[V.Riley]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

If Radio's future is the Internet (which I'm certain it may be), then the Radio Industry needs to lobby Congress to fix the Performance Royalty problem with Internet Radio a.s.a.p. Right now the road to radio's future is filled with royalty pot holes, and I'm sure that Radio would want the journey to be as smooth as it can. While the Recording Industry is lobbying Dems at their convention and the Reps at their convention, the Radio Industry should be doing the same, not only concerning their own potential royalty issue, but also the performance royalty problem that is currently impacting Internet Radio.

Just my opinion, yours may vary...

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

If Radio's future is the Internet (which I'm certain it may be)

You're certain it may be?? Spoken like a true politician! Guess you're just getting into the spirit of the elections.

But seriously, good point re radio missing an opportunity.

 

[gr8oldies]

I believe Radio Mom is owned by Bill Shirk and is the replacement station for taking the original 100.9 Lebanon frequency to be an Indianapolis move in. (Perhaps more groups should do this when they move a signal to the big town?). We are doing oldies on a non-comm in Dayton and it's being well-recieved (in addition to high school sports and other community events).

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

I believe Radio Mom is owned by Bill Shirk and is the replacement station for taking the original 100.9 Lebanon frequency to be an Indianapolis move in. (Perhaps more groups should do this when they move a signal to the big town?). We are doing oldies on a non-comm in Dayton and it's being well-recieved (in addition to high school sports and other community events).

Glad to hear it's going well with the oldies non-comm. I had been wondering if the lack of a commercial oldies in Dayton is the reason Fly92 plays 60's music, unlike most Adult Hits stations. As for Radio Mom, it's nice to see that showman Shirk is still involved with radio.

 

[gr8oldies]

I think Fly's occasional 60s song just adds to the "we play everything" image; most of the 60s cuts are pretty much evergreen. It probably doesn't hurt with those who would listen to an oldies station if a full-market one were available, but probably doesn't make or break teh format.

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

So when somebody turns on the radio in 10 years, what do you think they will hear? Static? A loop message from Will Smith about the end of the radio biz? What?

 

[adamcarrington]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

So when somebody turns on the radio in 10 years, what do you think they will hear? Static? A loop message from Will Smith about the end of the radio biz? What?

Image99seven,

the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the iBiquity's of the goddamn field or... hell! Take at look at PPM here as your paradigm of hope!

 

[alans613]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

So when somebody turns on the radio in 10 years, what do you think they will hear? Static? A loop message from Will Smith about the end of the radio biz? What?


Hilarious! In all seriousness, every radio station CAN NOT survive on Sports/Right-wing talk/News. It's just not possible. That would be like if every TV station aired nothing but news programs and sports. It would get old after awhile. I realize that royalties are a problem right now, but there is no reason that this problem can't be resolved. Let's look at this glass as half-full instead of half-empty. ;D

 

[KFodor]

I'm afraid some of you predicting radio's demise are going to be eating your words in 10 years...

Radio won't die. It will probably evolve. We may end up being more of an internet service than over the air eventually. Radio's moving that way now. We're doing more and more in that arena now. Adam, you're just dead wrong here. If you'd get your head out of your i-Pod and look seriously at the studies that are out there, you'd see radio, though certainly challenged by new technologies, is nowhere close to the "sad shape" you think it is.

So the 20-somethings at ad agencies are becomming smitten with all the "new toys"? Fine. Radio can always sell on the street if it wants to. Sometimes, selling direct to the advertiser is better than dealing with some agency-type who has his or her head up their...well, you know.

And, a number of radio companies are beginning to wake up to the notion of putting "personality" back into radio. We can't all be jukeboxes. That message is beginning to be understood.

Satellite radio? If there ever was a business that's more challenged than terrestrial, it's XM/Sirius. They've now got to make it pay...or it will be gone.

But there will always be people who want the free entertainment they get just for the cost of the receiver.

More talk radio? It's possible, but I don't think music radio will completely die. 95% of the public is still listening, for God's sake. Yes, we're gonna need to do outreach with younger-leaned formats aimed at younger people. Radio has ignored younger people, for the most part, because of advertisers who have been demanding 25-54 year old listeners now for a decade or more.

As for Dayton, there's no commercial "oldies" station because advertisers will not support an audience that's, largely over age 55. That's the way it is. That's why you have so many "classic hits" stations, which can achieve good ratings from people between 35-54.

I know. I know. "Baby boomers have money". No argument there. But, advertisers use means other than radio to reach the 55 and older crowd. They do not use radio to reach that audience. That's the reality of the situation. And until or if that ever changes...kiss your oldies goodbye on commercial radio.

Same will happen with classic hits in about the next 5 to 10 years. Count on it.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

I'm afraid some of you predicting radio's demise are going to be eating your words in 10 years...

Radio won't die.  It will probably evolve.  We may end up being more of an internet service than over the air eventually.  Radio's moving that way now.  We're doing more and more in that arena now.  Adam, you're just dead wrong here.  If you'd get your head out of your i-Pod and look seriously at the studies that are out there, you'd see radio, though certainly challenged by new technologies, is nowhere close to the "sad shape" you think it is.

So the 20-somethings at ad agencies are becomming smitten with all the "new toys"?  Fine. Radio can always sell on the street if it wants to.  Sometimes, selling direct to the advertiser is better than dealing with some agency-type who has his or her head up their...well, you know.

And, a number of radio companies are beginning to wake up to the notion of putting "personality" back into radio.  We can't all be jukeboxes.  That message is beginning to be understood.

Satellite radio?  If there ever was a business that's more challenged than terrestrial, it's XM/Sirius. They've now got to make it pay...or it will be gone. 

But there will always be people who want the free entertainment they get just for the cost of the receiver.

More talk radio?  It's possible, but I don't think music radio will completely die.  95% of the public is still listening, for God's sake.  Yes, we're gonna need to do outreach with younger-leaned formats aimed at younger people.  Radio has ignored younger people, for the most part, because of advertisers who have been demanding 25-54 year old listeners now for a decade or more.

As for Dayton, there's no commercial "oldies" station because advertisers will not support an audience that's, largely over age 55.  That's the way it is.  That's why you have so many "classic hits" stations, which can achieve good ratings from people between 35-54.

I know. I know. "Baby boomers have money".  No argument there.  But, advertisers use means other than radio to reach the 55 and older crowd.  They do not use radio to reach that audience.  That's the reality of the situation.  And until or if that ever changes...kiss your oldies goodbye on commercial radio.

Same will happen with classic hits in about the next 5 to 10 years. Count on it.

Interesting observations. They seem to make a lot of sense.

Two questions, though:

1.  How about Classic Rock?  It seems to be very healthy, even older-targeted stations.  Agewise the demo often isn't all that different from Classic Hits.  And when you throw in the 80's and late 70's that many Classic Hits play, Classic Hits' average era may not be any older than the "typical" Classic Rock.

2.  Maybe this is just sematics, but Classic Hits seems especially poised to survive because that name has been used for such a wide variety of musical stances.  It just has to play older, generally pop-rock music, but the songs can be 80's-70's (and maybe even 90's) focused.  If it's basically "updated oldies," why can't the an updated version of the same approach be successful (media-delivery issues aside) in ten years, with a music era range that is bumped up 10 years?  Or are you using a definition of Classic Hits that requires traditional late 60's/early 70's oldies, even ten yeras from now?

3. Aren't radio's twentysomething media buyers the same people working for advertisers whose TV ads currently use late 60's/early 70's music almost ad nauseum?

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

So when somebody turns on the radio in 10 years, what do you think they will hear? Static? A loop message from Will Smith about the end of the radio biz? What?

Image99seven,

the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the iBiquity's of the goddamn field or... hell! Take at look at PPM here as your paradigm of hope!

Wow Adam, I certainly have no personal ill will towards you and none was intended. My response was not meant to spew negativity, it was kind of a joke. Go down to your local blockbuster and rent the movie "I Am Legend".

Talk about hopeless negativism. "Lighten Up Francis". --Stripes (81)

 

[KFodor]

I'm afraid some of you predicting radio's demise are going to be eating your words in 10 years...

Radio won't die. It will probably evolve. We may end up being more of an internet service than over the air eventually. Radio's moving that way now. We're doing more and more in that arena now. Adam, you're just dead wrong here. If you'd get your head out of your i-Pod and look seriously at the studies that are out there, you'd see radio, though certainly challenged by new technologies, is nowhere close to the "sad shape" you think it is.

So the 20-somethings at ad agencies are becomming smitten with all the "new toys"? Fine. Radio can always sell on the street if it wants to. Sometimes, selling direct to the advertiser is better than dealing with some agency-type who has his or her head up their...well, you know.

And, a number of radio companies are beginning to wake up to the notion of putting "personality" back into radio. We can't all be jukeboxes. That message is beginning to be understood.

Satellite radio? If there ever was a business that's more challenged than terrestrial, it's XM/Sirius. They've now got to make it pay...or it will be gone.

But there will always be people who want the free entertainment they get just for the cost of the receiver.

More talk radio? It's possible, but I don't think music radio will completely die. 95% of the public is still listening, for God's sake. Yes, we're gonna need to do outreach with younger-leaned formats aimed at younger people. Radio has ignored younger people, for the most part, because of advertisers who have been demanding 25-54 year old listeners now for a decade or more.

As for Dayton, there's no commercial "oldies" station because advertisers will not support an audience that's, largely over age 55. That's the way it is. That's why you have so many "classic hits" stations, which can achieve good ratings from people between 35-54.

I know. I know. "Baby boomers have money". No argument there. But, advertisers use means other than radio to reach the 55 and older crowd. They do not use radio to reach that audience. That's the reality of the situation. And until or if that ever changes...kiss your oldies goodbye on commercial radio.

Same will happen with classic hits in about the next 5 to 10 years. Count on it.

Interesting observations. They seem to make a lot of sense.

Two questions, though:

1. How about Classic Rock? It seems to be very healthy, even older-targeted stations. Agewise the demo often isn't all that different from Classic Hits. And when you throw in the 80's and late 70's that many Classic Hits play, Classic Hits' average era may not be any older than the "typical" Classic Rock.

2. Maybe this is just sematics, but Classic Hits seems especially poised to survive because that name has been used for such a wide variety of musical stances. It just has to play older, generally pop-rock music, but the songs can be 80's-70's (and maybe even 90's) focused. If it's basically "updated oldies," why can't the an updated version of the same approach be successful (media-delivery issues aside) in ten years, with a music era range that is bumped up 10 years? Or are you using a definition of Classic Hits that requires traditional late 60's/early 70's oldies, even ten yeras from now?

3. Aren't radio's twentysomething media buyers the same people working for advertisers whose TV ads currently use late 60's/early 70's music almost ad nauseum?

Some good thoughts on your part, too.

Well, Classic Rock is certainly a stable format, for now...and it, along with Classic Hits could, potentially be moved up, just as Classic Rock has. (after all, weren't the original Classic Rock stations more 60's/early 70's leaned, while today it's more 70's and 80's with a few 60's?)

The problem was "oldies" pigeonholed itself by its die-hard fans screaming that anything past 1972 "wasn't really an oldie". I completely disagree. An "oldie" is what the individual listener makes of it. In the days of AM Top 40, an "oldie" was considered anything more than 3 years old. Today, many people in their mid-20's and mid-30's go crazy at parties and weddings when I play "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice and remark that it's now an "oldie". (Scary, ain't it?) Classic Hits is really an oldies format for those whose generational "soundtrack" was the 1970's and 1980's. But, you don't dare use the term "oldies", because that term has now been assumed to mean: malt shops, Elvis and fuzzy dice...and, unfortunately has also come to mean: old.

And all this proves what I've said all the way back to when I worked for WING in the 80's and launched the 80's based "Star 107.9" in Columbus in 1998. Every generation has its' own, unique soundtrack. What's "that new crap" to some, will eventually be an "oldie" to others. (Even if they don't want to admit it.) It's how musical tastes, and the world, go around.

As to observation #3: You're darn right. Unfortunately, though....I guess the 20 somethings in the agencies haven't been able to make the connection between the two. Maybe they don't have a baseline for the relevance of that music's popularity and why it connects with adults, and...more importantly, sells products.

 

[adamcarrington]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

So when somebody turns on the radio in 10 years, what do you think they will hear? Static? A loop message from Will Smith about the end of the radio biz? What?

Image99seven,

the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the iBiquity's of the goddamn field or... hell! Take at look at PPM here as your paradigm of hope!

Wow Adam, I certainly have no personal ill will towards you and none was intended. My response was not meant to spew negativity, it was kind of a joke. Go down to your local blockbuster and rent the movie "I Am Legend".

Talk about hopeless negativism. "Lighten Up Francis". --Stripes (81)

Pete: Well hell, it ain't square one! Ain't nobody gonna pick up three filthy, unshaved hitch-hikers, and one of them a know-it-all that can't keep his trap shut.

Ulysses Everett McGill: Pete, the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the lilies of the ------ field or... hell! Take at look at Delmar here as your paradigm of hope.

Delmar O'Donnell: Yeah, look at me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/quotes

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Let's get real here...

The entire business model of providing the general public with pre-recorded music-centric programming on the AM/FM band plan is dying, and has absolutely no more than 10 years to survive. The harsh reality is that it could very well be dead much (much) sooner than that.

I'm completely baffled as to why so many people simply refuse to accept this as what it is... fact.

This applies to non-commercial stations just as much as it applies to a typical commercial station. Granted, some organizations on both sides truly do have some life left in them... there are always a few exceptions.

So when somebody turns on the radio in 10 years, what do you think they will hear? Static? A loop message from Will Smith about the end of the radio biz? What?

Image99seven,

the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the iBiquity's of the goddamn field or... hell! Take at look at PPM here as your paradigm of hope!

Wow Adam, I certainly have no personal ill will towards you and none was intended. My response was not meant to spew negativity, it was kind of a joke. Go down to your local blockbuster and rent the movie "I Am Legend".

Talk about hopeless negativism. "Lighten Up Francis". --Stripes (81)

Pete: Well hell, it ain't square one! Ain't nobody gonna pick up three filthy, unshaved hitch-hikers, and one of them a know-it-all that can't keep his trap shut.

Ulysses Everett McGill: Pete, the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism. Consider the lilies of the ------ field or... hell! Take at look at Delmar here as your paradigm of hope.

Delmar O'Donnell: Yeah, look at me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/quotes

I guess I'm the one that needs to make that trip to Blockbuster! Very funny!!!