Seattle-Tacoma Radio Ratings: September 2023

[TheBigA]

I believe this is the reason for this format decision- KINK doing a 4.0 share in Portland (and of course much stronger in demo) and note it's higher than BOTH country stations in that market.

KINK has become a lot more mainstream in the last few years. They play their currents a lot more frequently than any other AAA or alternative station. As many as 40 spins a week. Their playlist is HALF the size of KPNW's. They're playing Teddy Swims, for God's sake. Plus the big factor is they have heritage. That's why they can do all that. If that was the reason they made the switch, it was an ill-informed decision.

 

[placebo1969]

Robin & Maynard or Pat Cashman.

Don’t forget Crow & West. Or Slaton or Vanderpool or…

 

[davideduardo]

Right - heads need to roll - who ever the brainiac was who cooked up this idea not the brightest bulb. That's NOT name calling - that's simply stating a fact. When a person in charge fails in any indsutry they need to be held accountable. Tell us again how going from a 2.4 6+ then flipping and dumping $ and going to .8 is a smart business move.... We will all be waiting for that gem!

P&G, the world's greatest marketer over the last 90 years or so, barely has a 50% success rate with new brands or brand extension. They do extensive research and test marketing.

Some of the best people in radio have failures. Batters seldom hit a good one a third of the time.

If a well planned project does not work, management does analysis and makes changes. Not every time is someone tarred and feathered for a format change that did not work.

 

[fordranger797]

On the topic of KINK: I’m glad to see them having success. There was a time where KINK’s future was in a bit of doubt. As I’ve already mentioned, I like listening to alternative from time to time, and quite honestly, KINK does it better than anyone else. While I like to hear something unique on the radio, I’ve also spent enough time in the business to know that a haphazard approach absolutely will not work. I would never call KINK haphazard.

The experts are correct; the alternative format is fragmented, and it’s impossible to find a perfect mixture of music that will please everyone. KINK gets as close as anyone can. They play a solid mixture of new music while leaning on select classic album rock and core 90’s alternative tracks.

Maybe there just isn’t a big enough market for AAA in Seattle. I doubt that Hubbard would have ever flipped 98.9 if they didn’t see at least *some* potential in AAA. It’s not written in stone anywhere that the playlist needs to be huge, or that the station needs to sound like a non-com. Shortening the playlist a bit could be a start.

 

[davideduardo]

Best you can do is defelct and avoid the question... what a clown

You don't have to be a 3rd grader on the playground to make a statement. Say you disagree and why, but cut out the childish responses.

 

[TheBigA]

There was a time where KINK’s future was in a bit of doubt.

The reason for that was because the audience was way too old. The same thing happened to KFOG, and we know what happened there. The reason it didn't happen at KINK was because ownership took action, hired a PD who knew the format, but also knew the reality that you can't attract advertisers to a music station when the audience is mainly over 55. So they added more currents and are playing them more frequently in order to bring down the average audience age. As I said, the playlist is half the size of KPNW's. That's the first thing that needs to happen.

I doubt that Hubbard would have ever flipped 98.9 if they didn’t see at least *some* potential in AAA.

My theory about that is they saw that traditional radio usage among younger people in Seattle is sharply declining. They hoped they could tap into the audience that still uses radio, and they saw this as a format that might do it.

 

[Delete My Account]

If there's any market that at least reasonably looks like a Triple A market, it's Seattle. KMTT had a good run, the music culture and history of the area suggests it, and KEXP, while it played a role in that, is not a Triple A. They're a music discovery community that has moved away from a lot of the sort of acts that appeal to the upper demo Triple A audience, plus they never kept KMTT from having its own lane. In theory, there's no reason Seattle couldn't have its own KINK/WXRT. But maybe it should have been done before now, and KPNW's having to play catch-up.

 

[TheBigA]

In theory, there's no reason Seattle couldn't have its own KINK/WXRT.

But it does, and it's KEXP, because KEXP plays about as many currents as KINK. As I said, KINK reinvented itself as a more currents-based station, and that brought down the average age of the audience. The problem with KPNW is the playlist is too old and unfocused. Too many hippie songs from the 60s, and it's hurting the ability of the station to appeal to a sellable demographic. But KINK also has heritage that allows it to take liberties with its format, and a strong morning show that keeps everyone happy.

 

[Delete My Account]

I'm not so sure that KEXP is a defeater for a KINK/WXRT styled commercial station.

KEXP isn't a Triple A format as we know it. I legitimately love KEXP and their mission, but they're an incredibly broad radio station, with a cultural mission that's outside the remit or structure of traditional Triple A. They've got a rotating cast of DJs in many of their time slots, and specialty programming that's very specifically targeted.

Here's the last hour of music on KINK:

Atomic City U2
10:53pm
Rolling In The Deep Adele
10:49pm
You Wreck Me Tom Petty
10:46pm
Daylight David Kushner
10:43pm
Carnival Natalie Merchant
10:39pm
Heat Waves Glass Animals
10:36pm
Run Away To Mars Talk
10:26pm
Plush Stone Temple Pilots
10:21pm
You Get What You Give New Radicals
10:17pm
Rescue Me Dirty Heads
10:14pm
Wild Horses Rolling Stones
10:09pm
The Middle Jimmy Eat World
10:06pm
Sweater Weather The Neighbourhood
10:03pm

I can't recall the last time I heard a single one of those acts on KEXP. I don't think they have a lot of interest in music that's "popular." And I don't see why there's a lane for that mix in Portland and Chicago, and not in Seattle, and if there isn't, I don't think it's because of the station that's been playing obscure post punk and synth pop for the past 90 minutes, with only two artists I recognized (a deep cut from Mazzy Star, known to most for one alternative single in the 90s that broke through, and indie faves Beach House - not exactly household names.) If you're telling me the former KMTT audience and the audience KPNW thinks they'll get is satisfied with that...I'm skeptical.

Maybe KPNW is too late to the party. But I think with some adjustments, they could do better than they're doing. A well programmed Triple A format should not be a failure in Seattle.

 

[TheBigA]

I can't recall the last time I heard a single one of those acts on KEXP.

I get that. What I was talking about is music discovery and currents. KEXP is better at it than KPNW. The main promotional thrust at KPNW is about music discovery and promoting local record stores. The problem is that the vast majority of their 1000 song playlist is old music from over 30 years ago. Not much music discovery when you play Crosby Stills & Nash. So the station attracts a lot of grandparents who put up with the new music because it makes them feel cool. That's not what KINK is doing. But the big thing that attracts people every day to KINK is Mitch. I'm not sure KPNW has a Mitch yet.

Earlier in this thread we talked about contesting, and KPNW seems to do a lot. But I wonder what percentage of their audience actually attends concerts. That would be a figure I'd want to see. My take is that most KPNW listeners hardly ever leave the house.

 

[MarkW]

Most of KINK's gold would fit in just fine at a Modern AC station. They play maybe 1 song an hour with classic rock roots. Their currents are essentially a subset of alternative format currents - songs with mature adult appeal. I agree that their playlist is well constructed; nothing sticks out like a sore thumb.

KPNW's playlist doesn't look that bad to my eyes, but there are some cuts that don't belong. Billie Ellish should be tossed. Cheap Trick (played overnight last night) should be tossed. There are a few obscure artists that probably should be KEXP exclusive that should be tossed; KEXP's audience doesn't want a heavily watered down version of KEXP. Those folks are largely going to stick with KEXP.

Tighten the playlist a bit from a breadth perspective (and maybe go a bit deeper with core artists) and see if that brings improved performance. By the way, I'm at a loss to even define who KPNW's core artists are. I'll leave it to the pros here to ascertain if that's a problem.

After 6 to 12 more months, if results remain weak, maybe a pivot to Classic Alternative could be attempted?

I was surprised when Country was abandoned. Where did 98.9 The Bull rank from a billing standpoint? Did the brief time when Ginny's son served as Market Manager (or was it GM?) help get things off track (more so than they already were)?

One or two folks here forget there was a time when 100.7 The Wolf was the "other" country station in the market; following its launch, it didn't take long for KKWF to catch the industry's attention and make waves. 98.9 did reasonably well out of the gate following its flip to country, benefitting from KMPS's demise caused by change in ownership. Turmoil in morning drive and arguably other internal errors perhaps led to The Bull's demise.

I was happy when Seattle regained a Commercial AAA station. I hope the team at KPNW can turn things around.

 

[Kelly A]

If there's any market that at least reasonably looks like a Triple A market, it's Seattle. KMTT had a good run, the music culture and history of the area suggests it, and KEXP, while it played a role in that, is not a Triple A.

When it came to overall financial success, KMTT had a horrible run. When PPM came along which discovered people weren't actually listening, that was the death blow. Even during its peak, the station was a tough sell to agencies/advertisers, and yet they still had a sizable talent expense.

They're a music discovery community that has moved away from a lot of the sort of acts that appeal to the upper demo Triple A audience, plus they never kept KMTT from having its own lane.

KMTT's lane was the shoulder with its flashers on.

 

[Kelly A]

My take is that most KPNW listeners hardly ever leave the house.

If they're anything like the tiny KMTT audience was, you're probably right.

 

[PB Randolf]

P&G, the world's greatest marketer over the last 90 years or so, barely has a 50% success rate with new brands or brand extension. They do extensive research and test marketing.

Some of the best people in radio have failures. Batters seldom hit a good one a third of the time.

If a well planned project does not work, management does analysis and makes changes. Not every time is someone tarred and feathered for a format change that did not work.

Apples and Oranges. Straw Man Agrument.

 

[theman8410]

I believe another programming idea that may help KPNW AFTER they sharpen the playlist would be to create some appointment listening, such as regular features including a 10 @ 10, a decades hour, or even an artist/theme hour. I listen regularly to a station in Door County, WI that does a great job in attracting local advertisers with their AAA hybrid playlist and their regular features throughout the week. They have themed weekends and actually advertise that they sell no advertising between Midnight & 6:00 a.m. For a local station they are very well focused and represent their community as well as selling their station and location to the world.

 

[Cobra14]

I believe another programming idea that may help KPNW AFTER they sharpen the playlist would be to create some appointment listening, such as regular features including a 10 @ 10, a decades hour, or even an artist/theme hour. I listen regularly to a station in Door County, WI that does a great job in attracting local advertisers with their AAA hybrid playlist and their regular features throughout the week. They have themed weekends and actually advertise that they sell no advertising between Midnight & 6:00 a.m. For a local station they are very well focused and represent their community as well as selling their station and location to the world.

Crows Psychedelic 60s show might fit well. Specialty show.

 

[davideduardo]

Apples and Oranges. Straw Man Agrument.

Obviously, you have not had a management position in radio. Not every format change, promotion or new talent works. We do the best possible to plan, research and prepare. This is a totally relevant comparison of how the majority of new products and services do not work... in any field.

 

[Kelly A]

On the topic of KINK: I’m glad to see them having success. There was a time where KINK’s future was in a bit of doubt. As I’ve already mentioned, I like listening to alternative from time to time, and quite honestly, KINK does it better than anyone else.

KINK has been around a long time and like any rock station, has had its up and down periods. Like anything that has been around, one gains wisdom in honing the formula over time. That includes being well-connected to your audience through regular research. And as BigA mentioned; they've tightened up their playlist likely to accommodate the shorter attention span of today's audience. Long-running successful stations have their core but are constantly making minor changes to accommodate trends in their audience.

While I like to hear something unique on the radio, I’ve also spent enough time in the business to know that a haphazard approach absolutely will not work. I would never call KINK haphazard.

KINK sounds freeform, and that's their schtick, but they're paying very close attention to their audience.

The experts are correct; the alternative format is fragmented, and it’s impossible to find a perfect mixture of music that will please everyone. KINK gets as close as anyone can. They play a solid mixture of new music while leaning on select classic album rock and core 90’s alternative tracks.

KINK reminds me a lot of The Spectrum on SXM, which promotes itself as new music meets classic rock. This in itself isn't a bad concept, but one must be cautious about going too far out either way on the timeline or risk tune-out/low TSL.

Maybe there just isn’t a big enough market for AAA in Seattle.

I'd say that, unlike Portland, Seattle is too large with too many stations. KINK is an example of how AAA is probably better suited to a medium market.

 

[DrJerry]

It's too bad KPNW's ratings aren't based on the number of comments about it on this board 😄

 

[bobdavcav]

If ratings were based on the number of comments on this board, I suspect the top several would be as follows:
1. KPNW.
2. KPLZ.
3. KJR-FM.
4. KNTS/KKDZ.
5. KEXP.
6. KBKS.