So I just got rid of my HD Radio...

[EggsOverEasy87]

I finally decided that the technology wasn't great, so I ditched my JVC-HDKDR. It's never fun driving around Dallas and having KDBN-HD2 (the only descent format on HD2 in DFW) drop out every 2 seconds. Maybe if radio stations knew how to use the technology better, I might keep it, but in some cases, I think HD made the radio sound much worst. A good example is KSCS. KSCS-HD1 sounds much quieter than KSCS-FM. It can be quite annoying if KSCS drops out and the volume suddenly increases in my car.

With all that said, I'm glad I tried the technology so I could give it a proper review. I found I could get a nice Kenwood car stereo with far more features (except HD), such as RDS and other customization features that you do not find in many car stereos these days. It's amazing on how much more you can get in a car stereo if you sacrifice the HD.

Sorry IBOC, the technology is interesting but you are trying to fix a problem that isn't there.

Is there anyone out there that have ditched their radios and have gone back to crystal clear analog?

 

[Savage]

Congratulations on a wise decision, EggsOver. I think radio stations "know how to use this technology" about as well as it can be used. It's just not a workable system - inevitably, the result of having "innovation" cobbled by non-broadcasting people who are fundamentally lacking in how radio works in the field. HD Radio is simply too glitch-ridden, unnecessarily complex, cumbersome and inefficient. I think Freebird, a frequent poster here, noted a study which showed that HD increases the workload at the average station cluster by 30 - 40%.

That's just not a reasonable burden to impose on overworked, vastly thinned engineering staffs with brutally chopped budgets. It would be too much even if HD delivered on its massively hyped promises. Which it doesn't.

When all conditions are adverse, disaster generally follows. Like the one we're watching now.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Several of my friends were also taken in by all the grandiose HD Radio superfluous hype. Their HD Radios have been returned, sold or are now sitting in closets, basements or attics collecting dust.
Some top engineers and broadcasters were sucked in to investing and buying this defective technology.
Wave of pure BS, not the future of radio.

 

[Play Freebird]

I purchased a JVC KDR radio three years ago (mainly for evaluation) and installed it in my pickup, which is the "work truck" I spend the most time driving. My initial impressions were that the JVC offered better FM analog selectivity than most conventional receivers, but I did find the digital-to-analog blending annoying and the AM performance disappointing. None of the low budget HD-2 formats appealed to me; low-bitrate codec artifacts and frequent dropouts made them difficult to enjoy.

When the DIN-mount Blaupunkt aftermarket radio in my Jeep failed last year, I moved the JVC over to that and put the factory radio (made by Visteon) back in the pickup. And a few days later I realized that I wasn't missing the HD capability at all. In fact, the Visteon radio has noticeably better AM bandwidth and comparable FM sensitivity. Its FM adjacent channel rejection isn't quite as tight as the JVC's, but it's acceptable in most locations.

 

[nd2023]

I bought an HD radio 2 years ago to listen to Wired 96.5's dance formatted HD2. No reception even at home only 30 miles from Philly, with an external antenna. That's the only reason I wanted an HD radio, so I returned it saying it's defective.

 

[K6JHU]

Just spent the last 4 hours listening to KKGO-HD2. Also listened to KKGO-HD3 for a little but it was in mono. Radio is on the second floor 35 miles from Mt. Wilson with a folded dipole vertical. No dropouts in the four hours.

I will re-iterate. I drove across almpst every state west of the Missisippi with an HD radio in the car (after market). I discovered that HD quality varies all over the lot. Minnesota stations always gave me a lock and the blend was seamless. Sioux Falls never locked. Iowa sations had volume matching issues. But WHO (FM) managed to lock over a better than a 50 mile range. So generally HD depends more on the station engineer than anyhting else.

 

[Chuck]

So generally HD depends more on the station engineer than anyhting else.

I don't think it is fair to blame it on the engineer. Many stations (maybe most) don't even have one. Those that do, have them supervising several stations simultaneously, and they are forced to work with whatever equipment and technologies the bean counters tell them to use. I have many friends in the broadcasting engineering profession. All of them take what they do very seriously. Sometimes it is really, really hard to make the proverbial silk purse out of the sow's ear.

They are good, but they are not miracle workers.

 

[ddsparxx]

The first HD radio I bought was the Boston HD table radio, only to be not satisfied; weak AM sensitivity and so-so sensitivity to FM so I got rid of that radio. But I am keeping the Sony HD tuner. IF HD radio does fail and I hope it will someday, the Sony would be be more fun to use...mostly as the FM DX rig.

 

[KB1OKL]

I've also got the Sony FM tuner and it's just as useless as any other HD radio because the HD technology itself is so bad. I haven't gotten rid of it only because it was fairly cheap in the first place (85 bucks) and it's a good FM analog receiver (AM is just as bad as any other receiver made nowadays). it's gathering dust on top of my real receiver, I don't DX FM which is the only reason i would use a tuner like this, maybe someday I'll mod it to block HD and try FM DX but not now, I haven't turned it on for probably 2 months and have maybe a total of 2 hours or less on it since I bought at the beginning of this year.

 

[DuckBlue]

I've also got the Sony FM tuner and it's just as useless as any other HD radio because the HD technology itself is so bad. I haven't gotten rid of it only because it was fairly cheap in the first place (85 bucks) and it's a good FM analog receiver (AM is just as bad as any other receiver made nowadays). it's gathering dust on top of my real receiver, I don't DX FM which is the only reason i would use a tuner like this, maybe someday I'll mod it to block HD and try FM DX but not now, I haven't turned it on for probably 2 months and have maybe a total of 2 hours or less on it since I bought at the beginning of this year.

I got mine for $50 with free shipping at about the same time. J&R had a special on it for $99.95 and there was a $50 rebate. I don't know if I have turned it on more than 5 times. I bought it as a toy. The only radio I listen to is XM, and that is only in the car.

 

[jras20]

The only HD Radio I am using now is the sangean hdt-1x and I have the HD Forced off. I love that feature.

 

[Tyke]

It all depends on your market. For car units, I've found out that it depends on whether the unit was installed correctly. I've had 3 JVC's installed over the past 2 years. Two were great right off the bat. One of them had to be redone because of faulty installation. There's a certain HD antenna connection that needs to installed correctly.

I love HD Radio. All you negative posters will just have to deal with it.

I've had HD Radio's in my cars (JVC's) and at home (Radio Shack and iLove) for more than 2 years here in St. Louis. I've had the Insignia (Best Buy) portable HD Radio for about a month. I've NEVER encountered any problems within a 60-mile radius of St. Louis with any of the FM HD2 stations. The HD3's can get a little iffy about 45 miles out. The AM's (there are only 2 in St. Louis, KMOX and KFUO) sound great in HD, but I don't listen to them very often.

I've driven through many midwestern markets and have found a HUGE variance in HD quality. It all seems to depend on the commitment of the various stations and markets. From what I've learned, St. Louis made a commitment to revamp their community transmitter tower into an HD tower a couple of years ago (not using the typical add-on stuff that I've heard almost everyone else uses). That may be the reason why St. Louis has great FM HD signals. All the major stations in this market have HD signals that reach out 60 miles.

I've had numerous friends drop Sirius/XM and get HD Radio's after I let them listen to mine. After hearing all the options available here in St. Louis, they decided they didn't want to pay $15/month, along with the sign-up fees and extra product.

One big reason my friends who have the portable Sirius units have switched over to the Insignia radio is because the Insignia can get re-charged for 10 hours, compared to only 3-1/2 hours for the Sirius units. That includes my mailman, who decided to get an Insignia and drop his portable Sirius unit after about 5 minutes on his route listening to my Insignia radio.

 

[stacker]

I've had HD Radio's in my cars (JVC's) and at home (Radio Shack and iLove) for more than 2 years here in St. Louis. I've had the Insignia (Best Buy) portable HD Radio for about a month. I've NEVER encountered any problems within a 60-mile radius of St. Louis with any of the FM HD2 stations. The HD3's can get a little iffy about 45 miles out. The AM's (there are only 2 in St. Louis, KMOX and KFUO) sound great in HD, but I don't listen to them very often.

Great post, Tyke. Your real world observations have succinctly summed up why the FM IBOC power increase is not necessary. ibiquity, the joint commenters and others who seek to hose interference over the band will just have to deal with it. ibiquity sold the FCC a system that the FCC found to be more robust than analog. You have confirmed it. Thanks.

 

[Savage]

Yes, yes, yes. And: please note that HD-AM has not repatriated you to the AM band. I believe the quote was "(the two AM stations using IBOC) sound great in HD, but I don't listen to them very often."

So much for the argument that the wonderfulness of HD justifies the increased interference because it "will help listeners rediscover AM." Digital isn't bringing back even the most dogmatic HD fans to AM Radio. On the other hand, the nighttime increase to the noise floor is scotching not only LOCAL analog coverage, but any hope of achieving reliable digital lock on any but the strongest local 50kw signals....hardly what AM needs, since something approaching 100% of AM listeners are listening in good old reliable analog.

So let's turn the freaking noise off already. It's not even working for the sake of digital.

 

[Play Freebird]

So AM IBOC reportedly makes KMOX "sound great" -- but according to this post, the digital spillover is degrading reception of other stations including WRYT in Edwardsville, which is 40 kHz off channel and only a few miles away:

http://www.qsl.net/n0uih/IBOCMythsandFacts/KMOXAnalogvsIBOC.htm

If Tyke or someone else from the St. Louis area could check this out, we would be interested in knowing what you find. Try it in Pontoon Beach with the JVC. Is this another case where the interference recipients just have to "deal with it"?

 

[Savage]

Well, in the interest of accuracy, I do have to take issue with the site's claim of "near CD-quality" for C-QUAM AM stereo. Certainly a properly processed C-QUAM AM Stereo signal is quite pleasing and impressive - even compared with today's gritty/screechy overprocessed FM products - but claiming "CD Quality" is not only overreaching, it bears unpleasant resemblance to an identically nonsensical claim for HD-AM.

OTOH: 40 kHz either side of the assigned channel? That's over-the-top even for HD Radio. Is KMOX exceeding 1% digital injection? Are there antenna problems?

If this is true, why hasn't a complaint been filed with the FCC? The Catholic station should definitely get on record with an objection. As opposed to turning the other "sideband" cheek.

 

[Tyke]

Personally, I would have no problem with HD being turned off on the AM side, especially now that some AM's are becoming available as one of the FM HD stations in their market. We've got KMOX-AM available as KEZK-HD3, and that's what I listen to because I'm within a 60-mile radius of St. Louis. And I don't listen to the other AM HD station, KFUO-AM, because it doesn't offer any programming that interests me. It's a very boring, Lutheran-based, Christian teaching format...except for White Horse Inn and Focus on the Family, and I can listen to Focus on the FM side on KSIV. If the KFUO people had any sense at all (which they don't seem to have, which is why the station is now up for sale as a FSBO!?!), they would've put their classical FM in HD, which would sound absolutely awesome...it's a great 100,000 watt signal. They could've put a Contemporary Christian format on their HD2. And they could've put their AM on their HD3, even though it's only a daytimer on the AM band. But hey, that would've been too smart of a plan.

I agree that the regular AM's ought to stay analog. Although I must say that AM HD does sound great, especially when it maintains that clean signal during bad weather. But it's not fair to other stations if it's causing a problem.

I don't think the average AM station owner is willing to make the financial outlay for HD when he/she is already struggling to stay alive, especially in medium and small markets. It's just not financially feasible, especially in this current economic climate.

I'm not an engineer, so I can't speak to the technical side of the issue. Just as a plain old radio listener, the amazing sound quality of HD, along with all the new HD2 and HD3 stations in St. Louis, has brought me back to terrestrial radio.

I love it when the Sirius/XM sales people call me every couple of months, asking me to come back, and I say "Why?!?! I've got everything I want with HD Radio in St. Louis, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper. Thanks, but no thanks."

 

[Savage]

Tyke, sincere thanks for being a terrestrial radio listener - and believer. I respect your opinions regarding HD Radio while dissenting from some of your conclusions.

I note your disclaimer that you're not one of us radio industry types, but your status as a listener provides us with valuable feedback from the field. Thanks very much for taking the time to post here.

Note that conversion of AM stations to HD is not usually an economic issue, although that is certainly also a concern. The fact is that most AM transmitting plants utilize directional antenna systems, particularly at night. HD-AM does not work well with many if not most directional arrays, causing unacceptable levels of self-interference at the host station. So most HD-AM installations are at nondirectional, single-tower stations or stations with enormous financial resources to finance expensive rebuilds of transmitter sites. As in: big group operators with a vested interest in HD like CBS and Greater Media.

 

[Tom Wells]

Well, in the interest of accuracy, I do have to take issue with the site's claim of "near CD-quality" for C-QUAM AM stereo. Certainly a properly processed C-QUAM AM Stereo signal is quite pleasing and impressive - even compared with today's gritty/screechy overprocessed FM products - but claiming "CD Quality" is not only overreaching, it bears unpleasant resemblance to an identically nonsensical claim for HD-AM.

OTOH: 40 kHz either side of the assigned channel? That's over-the-top even for HD Radio. Is KMOX exceeding 1% digital injection? Are there antenna problems?

If this is true, why hasn't a complaint been filed with the FCC? The Catholic station should definitely get on record with an objection. As opposed to turning the other "sideband" cheek.

A couple years ago when KUFO went HD, they had odd "sparkly" byproducts beyond the sidebands that went 80 khz each side.

I was working a mile away, and visited the station. The engineer pulled the HD for replacement when he said he couldn't get any reception lock at all.
Not sure how long it was off. maybe KMOX has an old box with the same flaw...except is does decode OK.

Even when sent through the tuning unit, the nature of digital modulation spreads energy over a wide range of frequencies, regardless of any attempts to keep the noise constrained within a "mask".

It's like trying to sweep water up a hill with a broom.

 

[IBadget1]

I have just purchased an Insignia HD Radio Portable Player, which is essentially a Walkman version of an HD radio. I originally purchased the HD radio to check out Radio Free Hawaii on KUCD 101.9 HD-2. I too have experienced signal dropouts. The farther the station, the more frequent the dropouts. KUCD is in Pearl City, and when I am in downtown Honolulu, KUCD HD-2 will come on for about 5 seconds and then drop out. In Waipahu, where I live, which is much closer to Pearl City than downtown Honolulu, KUCD HD-2 hardly ever drops out. I think I'll listen to my iPod more often.