Some guy said Hawaii and Florida were the worst radio markets to be in

[Huff]

Austin has been flooded with translators in the last decade or so, but I am not sure I would put it in the same league as ABQ, Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake, Boise, etc in terms of move-ins and rimshots.

Austin has had plenty of full power move-ins since the 1980s:
92.5, 93.3, 98.9, 99.3, 104.3, 104.9, 105.3, 105.9, 106.3, 107.7
103.5 was basically the only signal in the market above 102.3 until 1987.

 

[davideduardo]

That's great, but if I were a listener who wasn't familiar with the phenomena I'd say screw it, turn my radio off, and fire up Spotify.

Travelers and newer residents don't get meters... or diaries. All the very biggest markets in FL are metered.

 

[davideduardo]

Austin has had plenty of full power move-ins since the 1980s:
92.5, 93.3, 98.9, 99.3, 104.3, 104.9, 105.3, 105.9, 106.3, 107.7
103.5 was basically the only signal in the market above 102.3 until 1987.

And remember when a certain Austin CHR station, a Class A, got the highest price ever paid for an A anywhere?

That was before Docket 80-90 moved every relatively nearby station from those "one gas station towns" into Austin or its suburbs. It went from an immensely profitable market to a rather difficult one.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Examples of bad markets: Las Vegas, Key West, U.S. Virgin Islands, any seasonal market like Traverse City. Some markets that got too many Docket 80-90 upgrades and move ins like Austin, Albuquerque, Phoenix.

I would nominate Springfield, Missouri as possibly the worst market affected by 80-90.

As for Albuquerque, I think it was more a matter of a combination of the FM dial filling out*, and some Santa Fe stations figuring out how to put a good signal into the bigger city. More recently, you can add to that a proliferation of translators.

* Up until the mid or late 1980s, Albuquerque's FM dial was essentially blank from 100.3 to 107.9. There was one lone station up there at 107.9.

 

[davideduardo]

There are a couple of unique formats in the Keys. There's a yacht rock station, for example (Key 93.7). Some of the jocks have had real lasting power in the Keys. Bill Bravo has been on Wow 92.7 for at least 15 years, if not longer, for example.

The only worse market I can think of is Saint Thomas.

 

[Kent]

Keep in mind that everybody has their own criteria when they define the best or worst market to be in. Those criteria are likely to be different for sales and programming staff.

In terms of salary, I would think Hawaii would be a difficult place to afford if you work on the programming side. Plus, as some others have noted, Hawaii can be a culture shock to people not from there. I would also find myself getting island fever if I spent too much time there. I love that, in my current situation, I'm two hours or less away from two large metropolitan areas, an hour and a half away from the second longest shoreline to the Atlantic Ocean in the lower 48 states. If I want something a little different, I can leave work at 5:00 PM and be in either Nashville or Chicago by my usual bedtime. I'm not a big fan of flying, but I can also leave my driveway, be at the airport in 15 minutes, and be in Chicago, Dallas, or Atlanta in two hours or less if I were to so desire. You don't have those options in Hawaii.

Florida would present similar challenges for airstaff. As a no income tax state, Florida isn't a bargain if you're on the low end of the income scale. You'll pay a higher effective tax rate in the no income tax states (except Alaska) than you will in even California. Granted, the costs of essentials, like groceries and gas, are cheaper in Florida, but Florida is not low tax high value state it is for higher income people. Plus, as others have mentioned, the land is flat as a tabletop. It makes the areas of Texas and Oklahoma where I grew up look like the Great Smoky Mountains, and there's nowhere in Florida that doesn't have to worry about evacuating when a hurricane is in the area.

And remember when a certain Austin CHR station, a Class A, got the highest price ever paid for an A anywhere?

That was before Docket 80-90 moved every relatively nearby station from those "one gas station towns" into Austin or its suburbs. It went from an immensely profitable market to a rather difficult one.

Not sure if it was Docket 80-90 that made it happen, but said Class A station upgraded to a C1 in 1990. Ironically, it didn't get to stay on that signal for long as it ended up getting sold and immediately LMA'ed to KVET/KASE a few months later. I almost want to say the suburban licensed station where the CHR format was itself an earlier beneficiary of 80-90, but I'm not 100% certain about that.

As for Albuquerque, I think it was more a matter of a combination of the FM dial filling out*, and some Santa Fe stations figuring out how to put a good signal into the bigger city. More recently, you can add to that a proliferation of translators.

Docket 80-90 was what enabled the FM dial in Albuquerque and Santa Fe to fill out. I believe it was responsible for the upgrades of 97.3 and 98.5 in Santa Fe that enabled them to cover both markets as well as almost all of the stations between 100.3 and 107.9. It might've also been the foundation for 95.5's eventual upgrade, though I don't believe it got as good of an upgraded signal because it upgraded late and had to contend with 95.1, which was itself a drop-in. It might not still be the case, but Albuquerque had the most stations per capita in the 1990's and used to be the most volatile market in the Top 100 for format changes due to the large number of signals and inability for many to be profitable. By 1990, it had KRST, (K)KOB AM/FM and KZRR doing the lion's share of the revenue. Most everybody underneath them was left fighting for crumbs.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Austin has had plenty of full power move-ins since the 1980s:
92.5, 93.3, 98.9, 99.3, 104.3, 104.9, 105.3, 105.9, 106.3, 107.7
103.5 was basically the only signal in the market above 102.3 until 1987.

For sure. Also, don't forget about 101.5, coming in from Gidding.

105.9 wasn't a move-in if i recall though. I believe it was offered in an auction.

The AM landscape in Austin is abysmal so it's good that the choices expanded on the FM side along with the market's population growth.

I think it is a function of Austin blooming so much later than nearby San Antonio. Probably also the reason there was only one VHF too.

I wasn't disputing that there are a number of move-ins, just that it isn't a poster child like Albuquerque and Salt Lake City and it is a decent radio market: for employees, operators, and listeners.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Boise is pretty bad in terms of the number of stations per capita. Also, even though there are some decent AM signals in the market, every AM station except one is also on FM with either a full power simulcast or a translator.

And like Las Vegas there are a few more rimshots in the works.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Docket 80-90 was what enabled the FM dial in Albuquerque and Santa Fe to fill out. I believe it was responsible for the upgrades of 97.3 and 98.5 in Santa Fe that enabled them to cover both markets as well as almost all of the stations between 100.3 and 107.9.

98.5 was always a class C, on the high mesa at Los Alamos. KRSN-FM was on almost as early as KHFM was. KAFE-FM at 97.3 was a simulcaster for daytimer KAFE at 810, and ran at what would now be considered class C2 level from a site within the city proper. It's now a full C. Of course, all these call letters have changed.

There's a whole patchwork of drop-ins at various class levels in Albuquerque.

I'd still say the bigger factor is that Albuquerque, like SLC, is a mostly isolated market...remember that New Mexico is very sparsely populated outside the Rio Grande Valley...so applicants could drop-in applications for fairly high power, which just made the competition that much more brutal. Even back in the 1960s, some of the smaller AMs ran into financial difficulty.

New Mexico generally quit growing after the 2008 financial crisis and this has affected Albuquerque as well, though Santa Fe, not as much.

 

[Kelly A]

In terms of salary, I would think Hawaii would be a difficult place to afford if you work on the programming side.

Most of the stations are highly automated and voice-tracked. There used to be a lot more live talent, especially mornings, but COVID completely decimated that option. Tourism still hasn't recovered, and many local businesses remain shuttered. The sales/economic situation before the pandemic was bad enough, now with the national sales slump it's even harder to make ends meet for local radio or TV in the islands.

Plus, as some others have noted, Hawaii can be a culture shock to people not from there.

In my view, being on 'island time' as the residents is a very pleasant shock. My best vacations and rest are while in Hawaii.

I would also find myself getting island fever if I spent too much time there.

That's the way my wife is. We had discussed selling our condo there and buying a larger house with land for retirement. She wants no part of being "stuck on an island" while I go scuba diving, surfing, fishing, or hiking. My wife wants no part of those activities.