Some soon-to-be ex-UPN/WB stations becoming bad "indies"? Not so fast...

[sebenste]

Hey gang,

I read Scott Fybush' excellent post about what will happen to the UPN/WB's
becoming Indies, little chance of a FOX network, etc. Great insight!
But (shaking in my boots to question the great Fybush), I have to disagree with him on one thing: an indy can do extremely well, IF you know what you are doing.

I bring before you one Neal Sabin, program director at WCIU-TV and WWME-CA in
Chicago. This programming genius brought WPWR-TV 50 to prominence in Chicago before he left it just prior to it becoming UPN. Now, he's at WCIU 26/WWME 23,
and those stations have been doing great. WCIU wins dayparts in the late AM and
PM hours, and WWME is up there as well! Not hard to see why. Look at their program schedule:

http://www.wciu.com/schedule.asp

They do have some infomercials in the late night hours. But, they have a solid
block of programs right through 1 AM, both stations...and WWME-TV's programs aren't your usual "Judge Judy" rerun fare. Look at that schedule...and look at their weekend schedule, just as solid...I can get the digital 26.2 signal which simulcasts WWME...and I like their weekend block of cartoons from the 70s
and 80s! Underdog, Tennessee Tuxedo, many more...good times, when cartoons
rocked! "Black Sheep Squadron" is great as well. I don't need no stinkin'
cable with THESE two Indies out there! And they carry lots of sports. They even had a Chicago Bears game some time ago. (And no, it wasn't them who kinxed them!)

So the owner of the stations, Fred, 80 years old and hard at work every day,
very wise to hire a programmer who knows his stuff...puts together two of
what I consider to be the best indies on the market in the entire U.S. Nick at Nite? Phhffft. TBS? USA? Bah. Follow the leader and see how it is done. These stations make serious bucks and they program them well! And (gasp) they do public service: "The Homework Show" on WWME helps students in the Chicago Public School system on various topics done by teachers, amongst other programs.

I say that a true "indie" CAN and SHOULD be done well in a market without one.
Chicago proves that, and more specifically, WCIU/WWME, hands down.

Gilbert

 

[ccmfan]

> Hey gang,
>
> I read Scott Fybush' excellent post about what will happen
> to the UPN/WB's
> becoming Indies, little chance of a FOX network, etc. Great
> insight!
> But (shaking in my boots to question the great Fybush), I
> have to disagree with him on one thing: an indy can do
> extremely well, IF you know what you are doing.
>
> I bring before you one Neal Sabin, program director at
> WCIU-TV and WWME-CA in
> Chicago. This programming genius brought WPWR-TV 50 to
> prominence in Chicago before he left it just prior to it
> becoming UPN. Now, he's at WCIU 26/WWME 23,
> and those stations have been doing great. WCIU wins dayparts
> in the late AM and
> PM hours, and WWME is up there as well! Not hard to see why.
> Look at their program schedule:
>
> http://www.wciu.com/schedule.asp
>
> They do have some infomercials in the late night hours. But,
> they have a solid
> block of programs right through 1 AM, both stations...and
> WWME-TV's programs aren't your usual "Judge Judy" rerun
> fare. Look at that schedule...and look at their weekend
> schedule, just as solid...I can get the digital 26.2 signal
> which simulcasts WWME...and I like their weekend block of
> cartoons from the 70s
> and 80s! Underdog, Tennessee Tuxedo, many more...good times,
> when cartoons
> rocked! "Black Sheep Squadron" is great as well. I don't
> need no stinkin'
> cable with THESE two Indies out there! And they carry lots
> of sports. They even had a Chicago Bears game some time ago.
> (And no, it wasn't them who kinxed them!)
>
> So the owner of the stations, Fred, 80 years old and hard at
> work every day,
> very wise to hire a programmer who knows his stuff...puts
> together two of
> what I consider to be the best indies on the market in the
> entire U.S. Nick at Nite? Phhffft. TBS? USA? Bah. Follow the
> leader and see how it is done. These stations make serious
> bucks and they program them well! And (gasp) they do public
> service: "The Homework Show" on WWME helps students in the
> Chicago Public School system on various topics done by
> teachers, amongst other programs.
>
> I say that a true "indie" CAN and SHOULD be done well in a
> market without one.
> Chicago proves that, and more specifically, WCIU/WWME, hands
> down.
>
> Gilbert
>


Unfortunately I think that in many places all the viewers will get is more of the same syndicated junk that most UPN or WB stations have during the day, because the stations won't even try to do anything with classic TV or movies, or even claim that this is what viewers want.

 

[Nate Wesley]

If they focus on being great 'free-TV' stations...

If they focus upon being great 'free-TV' stations, I think some of these network-less outlets will be able to make a go of it. Despite cable and satellites adoption, there's still a sizeable audience who relies on terrestrial TV...many for personal reasons, quite often for financial ones.

Give them something to enjoy...<P ID="signature">______________
"I have the feeling about 60% of what you say is crap."--David Letterman underestimates Bill O'Reilly</P>

 

[mjlarochelle]

> Unfortunately I think that in many places all the viewers
> will get is more of the same syndicated junk that most UPN
> or WB stations have during the day, because the stations
> won't even try to do anything with classic TV or movies, or
> even claim that this is what viewers want.
----------
The classic TV format used by WMME might be catching on elsewhere in the country. WNGS, in the Buffalo market, has been criticized for some time on this and other boards for being a cheap dumping ground for the Buffalo market, airing mostly infomercials, including Satan's. In fact I bet a lot of people here are fearing that stations like WSBK will degenerate into the WNGS we knew. However, WNGS's schedule has taken a sharp turn for the better in the last few months. Here are exerpts from their new weekday schedule, starting at 8 AM:

8:00 Happy Days
8:30 Laverne & Shirley
9:00 The Brady Bunch
9:30 Family Ties
10:00 The Beverly Hillbillies
10:30 Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.
11:00 My Three Sons
11:30 Hogan's Heroes
12:00 The Wild, Wild West
1:00 Hawaii Five-O
(more of the above from 2-6, different episodes)
6:00 Kojak
7:00 A-Team
8:00 Quincy, M.E.
9:00 Hawaii Five-O
10:00 Magnum, P.I.
11:00 Rockford Files

WNGS right now also has live NCAA basketball on weekends. This Saturday they have Marquette at Pittsburgh, followed by Connecticut at Providence (WIVB/CBS also has NCAA on Saturday, but they have Arizona at North Carolina, followed by golf). They've also got a couple movies in the schedule for the weekend. There is still some paid programming, but mostly all at night now.

This is a lot more like the classic independent station from before the 1990s - they've got classic repeats, sports, and movies; all they need is more local sports and more blockbuster movies in prime time, and they're set to be a force to be reckoned with in Buffalo. WSBK can use the WNGS model, coupled with The Movie Loft, Wheel/Jeopardy, some syndicated programming, and hopefully greater local sports coverage, and they will quickly rise back to being the Superstation we remember.

WNGS is going to be very well prepared for the new independence of either WNYO or WNLO, and things should get even better as they try to compete.

The trend has been duplicated in Canada, with CKXT Toronto adding plenty of classic repeats upon its rebranding from Toronto One to Sun TV last summer. Crossroads Television (CITS) in Hamilton also has some classic repeats.

CW, coupled with the revival of classic repeats, could be the best thing to happen to American broadcast television in a few years. Now if we could get cartoons back...<P ID="signature">______________
From WNBC-TV New York this is Liiiiive at Fiiiiive!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 01/26/06 07:43 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[KMRichards]

> 12:00 The Wild, Wild West
> 12:30 Hawaii Five-O
> (more of the above from 1-6, different episodes)

You must have misread something, MJ. Those two shows are 60s, not 30s.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[r566]

Chicago is indeed lucky. I agree that classic programming is a draw.

My thoughts were that FOX could start a new network (7-10PM SUN, 8-10PM MON-FRI) for WWOR, KCOP, WPWR and other stations.

It could launch on the ex FOX owned UPN stations, WSBK, any Sinclair station that lost affilition, the independent Tribune stations (WPHL, WATL), KRON, WJXT and whoever in the top 35 markets. After the top 35 markets, it could be DirecTV and cable that distributes the signal. WSBK is already deemed a superstation.

As for programming, it doesn't have to be New programming like dramas and sitcoms.

My suggestion would be classic TV programs ("Retro" nights...think Screen Gems network), movies, and even some cheaper to produce stuff like reality based programming, game shows and wrestling if available. Maybe even Britcoms, though I am not sure how that'd do. Complement that with local sports programming, it wouldn't be expensive to run.

My name for the network would be FUN. The main benefits is that FOX, with leverage as a program provider and distributor, could get exclusive programming (even exclusive old sitcoms, that TV Land, Lifetime and the big cable networks get) and each station would have branding, and the continued benefit of a network affiliated setup.

 

[clichemoth]

If you combined the WWME/WNGS model with elements of the CityTV model, you'd have the perfect recipe for a strong indie.

* High-quality local news (not likely to happen in many of the smaller markets that already have more news departments than they can really support, but would work in the major markets, where many of the newly unaffiliated stations already have news. And we all know Sinclair's philosophy in that regard, so I wouldn't expect it on any of their stations)
* Local/regional sports (which many of these stations already carry via J-P, Raycom, or deals with local pro teams)
* Classic shows (which the stations that existed as indies prior to '95 probably carried then, and some still do. Sinclair's displaced stations will likely load up heavily on them, since they still seem to prefer programming to infomercials and carry some of them already)
* Some more current stuff in primetime (new movies, the few first-run syndicated series still out there, perhaps Canadian imports or the new English-language novelas as well, shows that have just entered syndication and haven't been beaten to death already like the Simpsons, Friends, Raymond, etc. have)

Such a station would probably do a little better than it had previously done as a WB/UPN affiliate.

 

[mjlarochelle]

> > 12:00 The Wild, Wild West
> > 12:30 Hawaii Five-O
> > (more of the above from 1-6, different episodes)
>
> You must have misread something, MJ. Those two shows are
> 60s, not 30s.
>
----------
Whoop, you're right. Noted and edited.<P ID="signature">______________
From WNBC-TV New York this is Liiiiive at Fiiiiive!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 01/26/06 07:42 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[The_Outsider]

> > > 12:00 The Wild, Wild West
> > > 12:30 Hawaii Five-O
> > > (more of the above from 1-6, different episodes)
> >
> > You must have misread something, MJ. Those two shows are
> > 60s, not 30s.
> >
> ----------
> Whoop, you're right. Noted and edited.
>

WNGS is part of Equity's Retro Television Network. It also airs on the Equity owned stations in the St. Louis area, Las Vegas, Little Rock and some other markets. When Equity dumped PAX in Little Rock and St. Louis, that is what they replaced it with.

 

[Markxxx]

> Chicago is indeed lucky. I agree that classic programming
> is a draw.
>
>I love WWME-TV, but I wonder about how it work as a stand alone full power station. Remember WCIU is running WWME on a low power station with enormous benefit of having it's anntenna on top of the Sears Tower.

You will note WCIU runs more run of the mill shows on it's main station. WWME is on the subchannel on Digital also. WCIU also has a lot of success with low power stations that are ethnic.

And while I wish more station were like WWME-CA, I think that type of programming in reality is a great ADDITIONAL cash flow, but perhaps not as a main source for a full power station<P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>

 

[mwebster]

What Are YOu Talking About?

Please post a link to something if you're going to start talking about it.

I have to ask: Why do you start a new thread for something that is apparently a reply? (And since I don't see it here, possibly a reply to something in another thread.)


> Hey gang,
>
> I read Scott Fybush' excellent post about what will happen
> to the UPN/WB's
> becoming Indies, little chance of a FOX network, etc. Great
> insight!
> But (shaking in my boots to question the great Fybush), I
> have to disagree with him on one thing: an indy can do
> extremely well, IF you know what you are doing.
>

 

[KMRichards]

Speaking as the Moderator (again ... sigh ...)

> Please post a link to something if you're going to start
> talking about it.
>
> I have to ask: Why do you start a new thread for something
> that is apparently a reply? (And since I don't see it here,
> possibly a reply to something in another thread.)

He was not talking about Scott's post; he was reading that thread and it got him started thinking in a related, but decidely different, direction. The new thread was entirely appropriate and your perception is wrong.

Further, it isn't your responsibility to determine whether or not a new thread should have been started. It's my responsibility, and in this case there was no reason to question the reason for starting a new thread.<P ID="signature">______________


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