Some thoughts on the "Failure" of DAB in Europe

[LinoNYC]

Alot has been said about the supposed "failure" of digital broadcasting in Europe and Canada, many of the remarks have come from those who extolled the Eureka system just a few months ago -clearly they are cases of "anyhing but iboc".

As I see the situation, DAB has not failed outright in Europe, what has happened is that in the intervening 18 years since the system was proposed the media landscape has changed dramatically, this has led to an adoption rate too slow to sustain those stations which are only available to purchasers of digital receivers.

The fact that radios were high-priced untill just three years ago didn't help, nor did the obsolete codec and the more recent "cramming" of too many channels at low bitrates often with monophonic sound.

The facts seem to point to the wisdom and practicality of an in-band approach, which some of the Eureka adopting countries are now exploring, it's not likely to be our HD system but it will be similar.

If anything, AMerica's slower and more deliberate approach may have saved it's consumers some money.

Lino

 

[Chuck]

The facts seem to point to the wisdom and practicality of an in-band approach, which some of the Eureka adopting countries are now exploring, it's not likely to be our HD system but it will be similar.

If the Europeans actually figure out how to do it "In Band, On Channel" then there would be no argument that it would be the way to go. My only objection about what we have is that it is actually "In Band Adjacent Channel" which is not very "neighbor friendly." Further, the closed architecture nature of the current system is a problem. The idea of licensing broadcast rights is a concept that is hard for a lot of broadcasters to swallow. I also have concerns of the viability of the system for lower power stations (3 KW and lower). For them, it may not be worth the bother; ever. The digital component needs to be more robust than it is in the Ibiquity system, yet it can't cause more interference. That is a tall order. I’d love to se someone fill it.

 

[vsa]

...As I see the situation, DAB has not failed outright in Europe, what has happened is that in the intervening 18 years since the system was proposed the media landscape has changed dramatically, this has led to an adoption rate too slow to sustain those stations which are only available to purchasers of digital receivers.

The fact that radios were high-priced untill just three years ago didn't help, nor did the obsolete codec and the more recent "cramming" of too many channels at low bitrates often with monophonic sound.

The facts seem to point to the wisdom and practicality of an in-band approach, which some of the Eureka adopting countries are now exploring, it's not likely to be our HD system but it will be similar.

If anything, AMerica's slower and more deliberate approach may have saved it's consumers some money.

Lino

Saved consumers some money? Like most of today's "broadcasters" really cared?

DAB, IBAC, whatever. It still requires the purchase of a new radio!

Consumers are saving their hard earned money. They are not buying any of these deaf single-purpose radios. People don't really care if audio is digital or analog. It's the content that comes out of the speaker that matters. People listen with analog ears. A six minute stop set is offensive whether it's digital or analog.

In this country, why should consumers buy an Hd radio? To save the radio industry? Nobody forced these "financial genious" consolidators to overpay for all of these transmitters and towers that are slowly going obsolete. 

 

[LinoNYC]

Saved consumers some money? Like most of today's "broadcasters" really cared?

DAB, IBAC, whatever. It still requires the purchase of a new radio!

Consumers are saving their hard earned money. They are not buying any of these deaf single-purpose radios. People don't really care if audio is digital or analog. It's the content that comes out of the speaker that matters. People listen with analog ears. A six minute stop set is offensive whether it's digital or analog.

In this country, why should consumers buy an Hd radio? To save the radio industry? Nobody forced these "financial genious" consolidators to overpay for all of these transmitters and towers that are slowly going obsolete.

Well, thanks for atleast alluding to the topic at hand (for a change).

Saved consumers some money? Like most of today's "broadcasters" really cared?

Not broadcasters but the lethargic pace of digital radio development here in the USA. Even if iboc fails, consumers will still be left with high-performing radios in contrast to the Eureka sets which will go silent.

DAB, IBAC, whatever. It still requires the purchase of a new radio!

Brilliant deduction, Sherlock. My point was that that our in-band approach doesn't leave an unsustainable mass of stations that few can hear (or want) while awaiting receiver sales.

Consumers are saving their hard earned money. They are not buying any of these deaf single-purpose radios.

But they will be buying the tech as it gets integrated into common receiver types.

People don't really care if audio is digital or analog. It's the content that comes out of the speaker that matters. People listen with analog ears.

I can answer that with two letters: AM.

In this country, why should consumers buy an Hd radio?

To provide better fidelity on AM and FM. To increase the available programming selections. You can't have overlooked these points, that would be shortsighted, something you must never be accused of....

BYW: Your "Chumby" is a good example of the sort of Gen-X product that get thrown into the marketing fan every day.

Will it succeed, personally I'am inclined towards Tom Wells' description "upholstered pet rock"

I do hope you haven't bet your inheritance on it.

Gotta walk a couple blocks over and wait for my wounded Governor to emerge.

Lino

 

[Savage]

Cant resist, Lino - since "your" (your term) Governor Steamroller will shortly be out of a job, maybe you could "hook him up," so to speak, with Bob Struble to be an iBiquity spokesman! Get Hevesi in there too while you're at it.

 

[LinoNYC]

Cant resist, Lino - since "your" (your term) Governor Steamroller will shortly be out of a job, maybe you could "hook him up," so to speak, with Bob Struble to be an iBiquity spokesman! Get Hevesi in there too while you're at it.

Well, 'ol Bruno will unemployed soon, why not give him a shot...figuratively...ofcourse.

Why not find an hour a day to let him preach to the dwindling remnants horsey affluence in their besiged hamlets?

You ought to see the media circus down here. I took a walk past Spitzer's apt house and there are microwave and sat trucks every 10-15 feet in front of his building and onto the side streets. Every truck has some reporter with a hmi lamp, camera and monitor awaiting their cue to say... what. There are helicopters overhead, I live two blocks away and have heard them for over three hours, what do they expect to see, Spitzer jumping off his roof?


BTW: you asked about ssb for iboc, this was mentioned in an article I read five years ago as possible answer to adjacent channel probs, but it compromises iboc reception. Are you sure you are not hearing some form of atmospherics. We get "wandering hash" that begins around 720 and slowly, over a period of weeks, moves up till somewhere around 1150. There are days when this hash centers around certain stations and literally blanks them. This has been going on for almost ten years

Lino

 

[Savage]

Nah, I don't think Spitzer's a jumper. It's far more likely Silda Wall Spitzer's gonna PUSH him off the ledge.
Her face while she was standing next to The Steamroller at yesterday's presser, was poignant. If I were Eliot I'd get a reliable food-taster on staff, chop-chop, and get some titanium underwear while he's at it.

We're in agreement: Hevesi, Bruno and Spitzer could be Dwarves #8, 9 and 10 - Sleazy, Greedy and Clueless. Pick the name you like. They're interchangeable.

I just don't know what's going on with IBOC midband. You're probably right that it's weird propagation. Which reveals another of the HD-AM skywave problems: there's no way to assess or plan for interference problems, because of the nature of medium-wave skywave. If there's no way to objectively evaluate performance, the system should never have been approved.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Cant resist, Lino - since "your" (your term) Governor Steamroller will shortly be out of a job, maybe you could "hook him up," so to speak, with Bob Struble to be an iBiquity spokesman! Get Hevesi in there too while you're at it.

Off Topic; New York to New Jersey.... Look at the bright side, at least our governor is straight!!

 

[KB1OKL]

If anything, AMerica's slower and more deliberate approach may have saved it's consumers some money.

Lino

So you're saying that this snail's pace so called roll out here in the States was a deliberate marketing plan? ;D Ingenious I say, rare collectors items are being created on purpose. I never would have thought of that. The minute amount of consumers who have bought these radios will be able to sell them on ebay in 50 years: HD radio: Early 21st century curiosity!!

 

[Tom Wells]

Lino, you mention wandering hash over a very large swath of spectrum.
Is this only at home, or also heard in cars? How wide is the signal? Any details?
Period of drift from low to high freq? Falling back the other way, or recycling like a reset to the low end of the band?
Any audio note "pitch" along with it?
How many steps have been taken to locate and remedy the problem?

It sounds like a continuous-duty variable-speed blower as used in HVAC systems in large buildings.


Regarding buying new radios, I have two 1936 Philco 116s, one on either side of the fireplace of my 1925 living room.
With class A push-pull directly heated triode outputs, passive radiators for bass and midrange, 20-25 khz response (I added piezo tweeters), I'd rather not have anything other than a return to the higher standard on the transmission end they were designed for.
I can honestly say these 72 year old radios sound far finer than the best AM HD has to offer.

I still have a quiet RF environment at home. I have more of a problem with overused frequencies due to
abandoning the original AM bandplan, which went along with nature, not against it.

The deal was, If you lived "IN THE CITY" you have a big signal day or night.
If you lived in podunk, you had maybe a nearby OK local signal to, which was a daytimer, at night you heard your
"halfway cross the state" regional, or you listened to one of the giant stations in one of the giant cities.

The idea of daytimer only stations was no more popular when introduced than it was when the FCC relaxed all the standards
for frequency protection starting in the early 80's. It just shows that the FCC has given up on regulating MW broadcast's
viability, because it almost sounds as bad as the CB these days.