Speaking of A Top 40 Competitor to Kiss and Jam'n...

[faderraider]

How about moving much of the music that targets 25-54 old women on WBMX to WODS and move WBMX more toward WXKSFM. WODS could be an interesting station mixing their existing play list up with a lot of Top 40. Yesterday and Today's Greatest Hits are on 103.3 WODS!

What music of today, or the past 10 years, would sound good alongside "Cracklin' Rosie" or "Satisfaction"? And what music of 40 years ago would sound good alongside "Hey Soul Sister" or "Teenage Dream." Hmmmm... you COULD segue "California Girls" into "California Gurls," I suppose.

Give WATD 95.9 FM a listen sometime, they mix today and "yesterday's "music pretty well.

 

[joqitch]

Mix and KISS aren't competing against each other? That's insane. Using 6+ (not 12+) numbers to make an argument? Even more insane. They ARE competing for W 25-54 numbers and dollars. Then you want to take a station (MIX) that is doing pretty good W 25-54 and go 18-34 with it, correct? Even more insane than the 6+ number argument. Once again, this is a different situation than NY and LA. Like I said, I'm not too sure about Tampa.

And riddle me this, how can you say that "16.8% of radios agree" they want something different? You've talked to 100% of each station's cume to draw this conclusion? Impressive!?!
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While I agree making an argument based on the 6+ rank/share alone is a bit thin, let me make an observation without seeing the breakouts- I'd be curious to see how well Mix is actually doing in persons/women 25-54 demo: if they aren't top 5, and haven't been for a while it's time to reevaluate.

Having said that, I'm betting Kiss IS top 5 (maybe even top 3 or winning) persons/women 25-54, as well as 18-34, 18-44, 18-49, 25-44, etc. -> and THAT'S the part that is frustrating when eyes focus back at Mix...WBMX should be in the hunt with these numbers, especially with a contemporary presentation. The execution of the format is actually not that far off (music adjustments), but the idea that management has to "do it this way" because "that's Hot AC" is so irrelevant to a panel listener, who is still giving Mix a try (cume), but clearly not enjoying what they are hearing (tsl).

 

[iknowpeople]

Us laymen don't get breakdowns in demographics, but what has been discussed here on the board, and beyond, is that Mix is not performing to the level it should, considering it's a station with as much legacy as it has. So 6+ numbers it has to be.

Kiss is just killing in numerous demographics, and looking at the landscape, the only station that would make sense to go head-on against Kiss is Mix. Be a Top 40 that isn't afraid to play more rhythmic songs, two parts Kiss, one part Jam'n. Paint Kiss as a rusty old radio station with a morning guy that is old and shouldn't be talking to people half his age... and attack.

Having two stations, one number one, one top 5, with 16% of radios listening combined... WITHOUT a competitor... proves that there is probably room in the market to steal a share of the pie. I just think that the result would be a solid 18-34 performer, as opposed to Mix's current alright numbers in 25-54.

But what do I know? I write on Radio-Info.

 

[MassMusicMan]

Alright, we're going around in circles here.

Either the methodology is right and Kiss does represent 10% of Boston-area radio listening (which might make it ripe for competition), or the methodology is crap and they're coasting on decades of heritage (making the entire business of radio advertising a shell game.)

The latter is plausible...it's Boston. We're not dealing with transplants here, we're dealing with old white suburban types who grew up here and will die here. And the people that do transplant here are 18-22, don't follow radio, get their diploma, then go back to where they came from.

Bottom line: Would it make sense for hypothetical radio station X to go after Kiss with a hotter presentation? Perhaps. People clearly like Top 40 music. But would it make sense for an existing real world full-market Boston FM signal to do it right now? I would think not. Boston radio is boring to us here on the board, sure. But Johnny McLayperson in Malden likes WZLX or WBZ (either one of them), and his wife likes WODS. And their kids might like Kiss and Jam'n, but probably spend more of their time on Pandora. We're at the point where music radio everywhere is for old people and poor people...and Boston's FM choices reflect that.

 

[taylorjsdad]

Here's the thing: Kiss 108 is a generational station. The kids listen to it. The parents listen to it because when they were kids, they listened to it. They also listen because there is no other choice.

Mix is not, to any point, competing with Kiss 108. They play some songs that Kiss does, sure, but as far as approach, not even remotely close.

Kiss had a 9.9 12+ (only numbers i can see) in October. Jam'n had a 6.9. Mix, a 3.2 - less than half of Jam'n and less than a third of Kiss.

Collectively, that is a 16.8 share (Kiss & Jamn) that has absolutely NO competition. They are winning by default.

As far as 92.3 NOW and Play 98.7 - I wasn't pointing those stations out as great examples of how to run a station. But I'm making the point that CBS decided to launch stations against other fully-staffed stations. 98.7 completely missed the mark in Tampa, where Hot 101-5 took off and now are in nearly a dead heat with FLZ. 92.3 NOW... for a multitude of reasons not working. AMP is successful because Kevin Weatherly is a genius. But if CBS is willing to flip against fully staffed stations, they should be willing to flip for high performing, hardly staffed, un-contested stations. A solid CHR-M that doesn't play Bon Jovi and cater to the older part of their demographic is what the town needs. 16.8% of radios agree.

Mix and KISS aren't competing against each other? That's insane. Using 6+ (not 12+) numbers to make an argument? Even more insane. They ARE competing for W 25-54 numbers and dollars. Then you want to take a station (MIX) that is doing pretty good W 25-54 and go 18-34 with it, correct? Even more insane than the 6+ number argument. Once again, this is a different situation than NY and LA. Like I said, I'm not too sure about Tampa.

And riddle me this, how can you say that "16.8% of radios agree" they want something different? You've talked to 100% of each station's cume to draw this conclusion? Impressive!?!

I have listened to Play 98.7 in Tampa (actually like the station and stream it when I can) and they are a Hot AC that plays more currents... an Adult CHR if you will. I don't think they are missing the mark because all I think CBS wants to do is shave a little audience from FLZ and Mix. The signal is ok but not great and it would not surprise me if they are making more in revenue than their days as a smooth jazz station.

 

[iknowpeople]

Play in Tampa is NOT a good example of an effective station. But it is an example of CBS going after some sliver of Top 40 in a fully-staffed CC CHR Market.

Boston's radio landscape is certainly boring right now Will. LOL... everything could stay in it's current form and everyone would have a comfortable little sliver of the pie. But as The Sports Hub proved... market leaders should be challenged. But the market is so comfy and there is so little fear for competition, that Kiss 108, a Top 40 in market 10, is getting record ratings with voicetracked middays, nights and weekends. It's lazy radio. Just baffled that CBS goes after fully staffed, sharp Top 40's, as opposed to Premium Choice Top 40's, which you'd figure would be a much easier target.

All I know is, considering the constant questioning on the board of whether WBZ will simulcast to an FM signal (SMH), I think there is certainly a better thing CBS could do with an FM signal.

 

[CTListener]

Play in Tampa is NOT a good example of an effective station. But it is an example of CBS going after some sliver of Top 40 in a fully-staffed CC CHR Market.

Boston's radio landscape is certainly boring right now Will. LOL... everything could stay in it's current form and everyone would have a comfortable little sliver of the pie. But as The Sports Hub proved... market leaders should be challenged. But the market is so comfy and there is so little fear for competition, that Kiss 108, a Top 40 in market 10, is getting record ratings with voicetracked middays, nights and weekends. It's lazy radio. Just baffled that CBS goes after fully staffed, sharp Top 40's, as opposed to Premium Choice Top 40's, which you'd figure would be a much easier target.

Proving that the average listener doesn't know the difference between voicetracked and live, and thinks the local station sounds great. Good luck challenging that.

 

[JustinT]

Proving that the average listener doesn't know the difference between voicetracked and live, and thinks the local station sounds great. Good luck challenging that.

How do we know that the average listener thinks that WXKS sounds great?

It seems to me that we know is that average listeners want to hear David Guetta, Flo Rida, and LMFAO; and they go to the only place on the dial where those acts are getting airplay.

 

[MassMusicMan]

I don't even understand the point of Premium Choice jocks. They don't say anything. I seldom hear more out of Jojo or Sisanie than an artist/title sell. Why not just run it jockless if you're not going to add anything to the presentation?

Kiss reminds me of the South Park last season where Stan sees and hears everything as literal s***: "Coming this summer, a dog is the president? Or a duck is the president...who cares, **** you! You'll go see it!"

 

[carmen]

Boston's radio landscape is certainly boring right now

says you. ive only lived in Columbus, New York City, San Francisco and by far the radio dial is best here. NYC IS just too big, you cant even get WNYU walking around on Nyu campus cuz of 200 blocks of buildings in between - insane multipath. you couldnt get KFJC in SF cuz of so many mountains in between ,etc. KUSF Is no longer on air only streaming

sure, we could do with a 24/7 house/dubstep station like Rinse and the various pirates in london, but alll told you cant reaally beat the variety that boston airwaves offer, imo

 

[mistermicrophone]

Play in Tampa is NOT a good example of an effective station. But it is an example of CBS going after some sliver of Top 40 in a fully-staffed CC CHR Market.

Boston's radio landscape is certainly boring right now Will. LOL... everything could stay in it's current form and everyone would have a comfortable little sliver of the pie. But as The Sports Hub proved... market leaders should be challenged. But the market is so comfy and there is so little fear for competition, that Kiss 108, a Top 40 in market 10, is getting record ratings with voicetracked middays, nights and weekends. It's lazy radio. Just baffled that CBS goes after fully staffed, sharp Top 40's, as opposed to Premium Choice Top 40's, which you'd figure would be a much easier target.

All I know is, considering the constant questioning on the board of whether WBZ will simulcast to an FM signal (SMH), I think there is certainly a better thing CBS could do with an FM signal.

CT is correct, the average listener doesn't know the difference between voictracked and live. As for Seacrest, he is proven commodity with the younger (18-34) and older (25-54) end of the demos in which KISS dominates. Call it lazy, but it works. Syndication and voictetracking are evil, but necessary tools. And when done right, they work, regardless of what we think of them on this board.

The Sports Hub vs. WEEI is a bad example. The Sports Hub saw success out of the box because of WEEI's AM signal. If WEEI was on FM to begin with, there probably wouldn't be a Sports Hub.

I am not saying that a station can't go after KISS or JAMN, but it's not going to be someone who is already competing for ratings and, more importantly, ad dollars in the 25-54 demo just to erode some 18-34 numbers.

 

[iknowpeople]

The Sports Hub vs. WEEI is a bad example. The Sports Hub saw success out of the box because of WEEI's AM signal. If WEEI was on FM to begin with, there probably wouldn't be a Sports Hub.

The Sports Hub won because WEEI's schtick was lazy and they hadn't done anything to stay fresh. Sports Hub's gimmick was "Hey we are on FM", but listeners actually have to LIKE what they are broadcasting. Crap on AM is Stereo Crap on FM.

Syndication and voictetracking are evil, but necessary tools. And when done right, they work, regardless of what we think of them on this board.

Syndication is a necessary tool - when used because there is no beating the content. The Rush Limbaughs, Open House Partys and AT40's of the world - sure. But Seacrest's show is purely there as a $$ saving scheme. Which, hey, good on them. Why would they need to have a competitive midday show when they have no direct competition?! It's only a major daypart in market 10. Same with nights at Kiss. Another major daypart - voicetracked. The interactivity of Top 40 is completely lost when more than half of the rated broadcast hours of the station are syndicated or voicetracked. There is no reason for Kiss to do any different until they are forced to by a competitor.

 

[raccoonradio]

WBZ-FM has been changing its "Boston's New Home For Sports" or "Boston's FM Sports Station" to
say "Boston's Home For Sports" etc due to the WEEI on FM. WEEI has been having Cutler say something along the lines of "You can have sports on FM but we have the BEST sports on FM" etc.
As noted at the time of Sports Hub's debut, WEEI suddenly seemed to tighten up its breaks and
throw in things like "We'll be back in just 90 seconds".

Yeah, so don't get any ideas about trying out that other station, in other words. Though of course
button pushers might do just that. WEEI has tried some other changes, etc. Having the Sox is a plus
but possibly losing the Celtics season can't help too much. Sports Hub indeed is winning many
dayparts. Last night at work I found myself listening to the Broncos-Jets game on WEEI and a bit of
ESPN GameNight, then later listening to JT The Brick on WBZ-FM (yup all syndie). (btw WEEI may
be bringing in younger voices, adding harder rock to bumpers, etc. and the basic move to FM itself
is an attempt to not just keep the listeners they have from switching to 98.5, but also trying to
get some newer, younger listeners.)

 

[iknowpeople]

@RaccoonRadio thus proving the point. When Sports Hub launched, WEEI's management didn't say "speak CLEARER" and "lets talk in a clearer fidelity". They knew they were getting beat - beyond clarity - in content.

Same can be said with a solid Top 40 competitor in Boston. Kiss is dominant (as WEEI was), but with a share that big, it is a crime to not have a competitor.

 

[raccoonradio]

The content does matter, but so does accessibility...the people who couldn't pick up WEEI too well
due to its limited AM signal. That was part of it as well, plus the tendency of many people to stick to
FM these days. But yes, content does matter and we'll see how the ratings do (as we have indeed
seen WBZ-FM rack up wins in crucial demos...I still can't get over how the midday ratings for
98.5 in one vital demo was _14.6 times higher_ than WEEI).

Even if EEI's OVERALL rating and cumes seemed competitive (by comparison, the show-by-show
ratings were brutal) the fact was the CBS was taking $$$ out of Entercom's pockets with its new
operation and they had to act, in both the simulcast and the content.

 

[atlantaboy]

I'd say that they could very easily tweak WBMX to be Top 40.

That would make Boston the only Top 20 market not to have a Hot AC station - no way that's gonna happen... (Hot AC listeners aren't gonna want to listen to Oldies lol)

 

[kp2780]

I don't think the voicetracking is a big factor, but I think musically there is room for a station to come in somewhere between Kiss and Jamn. Kiss doesn't seem to take risks on songs that dont fit perfectly within "their sound," or aren't already charting, and as a result they are slow to add new songs (For ex: Andy Grammer- Keep Your Head Up was added late because it was "too Hot AC" I would guess, and Mr Saxo Beat wasn't added right away because they had to wait for Z100 to tell them it was hit!...even though both songs are clearly hits on the first listen). At the other end of the spectrum, they also don't play alot of gold Top 40 hits. Thats two things that radio can offer to this "new generation" of listener that is more into Pandora etc: 1.) New songs they haven't heard yet 2.) A "wow" I haven't heard this song in years feeling. Kiss falls short in both categories now, but who knows, if they got a competitor, they would probably step up their game. Overall, I think they are well programmed, plus they have the heritage, so they would be hard to take down.

Jamn sounds kind of bland these days, but I think its mainly a reflection on what they have to pick from now for new music. They can't sound exactly like Kiss, so they have to rely on more urban/rhythmic tracks to fill out thier playlist, and I think there is kind of a lull in that area right now. So I think another Top 40 competitor would knock their ratings down a bit.

 

[iknowpeople]

I'm with KP. There is plenty of room in the market. Kiss & Jamn both have their hands tied music selection wise, because they are sister stations and try to avoid stepping on feet (just like Pro and Hot in Providence). There are many listeners of both stations. It'd be nice to have a station plop right in the middle of them.

As for no Hot AC... I agree to a point. That will leave a hole in Hot AC and maybe another station would want to fill that hole. Not that Mix does a bad job of it, but I don't think they are getting the ratings that their legacy would lead you to believe they should get. It'd shake things up a bit.

 

[mistermicrophone]

The Sports Hub vs. WEEI is a bad example. The Sports Hub saw success out of the box because of WEEI's AM signal. If WEEI was on FM to begin with, there probably wouldn't be a Sports Hub.

The Sports Hub won because WEEI's schtick was lazy and they hadn't done anything to stay fresh. Sports Hub's gimmick was "Hey we are on FM", but listeners actually have to LIKE what they are broadcasting. Crap on AM is Stereo Crap on FM.

Syndication and voictetracking are evil, but necessary tools. And when done right, they work, regardless of what we think of them on this board.

Syndication is a necessary tool - when used because there is no beating the content. The Rush Limbaughs, Open House Partys and AT40's of the world - sure. But Seacrest's show is purely there as a $$ saving scheme. Which, hey, good on them. Why would they need to have a competitive midday show when they have no direct competition?! It's only a major daypart in market 10. Same with nights at Kiss. Another major daypart - voicetracked. The interactivity of Top 40 is completely lost when more than half of the rated broadcast hours of the station are syndicated or voicetracked. There is no reason for Kiss to do any different until they are forced to by a competitor.

If the AM vs. FM thing didn't matter, how do explain WEEI's resurgence in the ratings since their move to FM??

As for the voicetracking at KISS, live and local isn't always better. It's about content. Jackson Blue worked here, is from here (I believe), did nights here and sounds like he is here. The average listener DOESN'T know any better. Even if they do, the find him funny, engaging and entertaining, regardless of whether he's in Medford or not.

As for Seacrest, yeah, it may be a way to save money - or as you call it "money saving scheme"...although "scheme" leads one to believe there's a lie involved - but 99.9% of the listeners realize he's not here. His show is successful because of...wait for it...THE CONTENT. When you have the leads from the latest Twilight movie on the air the day it opens or the two finalists from American Idol on the air the day of the finale, it's something someone sitting in a studio in (insert market name here) necessarily can't.

And I have to laugh about the "interactivity". What is it less than 1% of the audience actually attempts to call a radio station?? Voicetracking doesn't hurt the other 99%. And when it comes to social networking, that can be done from anywhere. As long as they're interacting it doesn't matter where the iPhone, PC, Mac, etc is actually located.

You really seem to hate CC/Boston. Did Dylan steal your girlfriend or something? Or does it just bother you that the stations aren't what YOU want them to be?

 

[mistermicrophone]

As for no Hot AC... I agree to a point. That will leave a hole in Hot AC and maybe another station would want to fill that hole. Not that Mix does a bad job of it, but I don't think they are getting the ratings that their legacy would lead you to believe they should get. It'd shake things up a bit.

But are they making money? THAT'S the most important question. Sure, flip 'em to CHR, right between KISS and JAMN as you outlined before. That makes them an 18-34 based radio station, focused right on 18-24. You know who wins there? KISS and MAGIC because a lot of MIX's money is going to those two stations. Even if you do the nearly impossible and you become #1 W 18-34, you're NOT getting the buys that being #3 or #4 W 25-54 are getting you.