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Stereo records on mono AM (WJIB: Darling Be Home Soon)

raccoonradio

raccoonradio

Heard WJIB play Lovin' Spoonful's "Darling Be Home Soon" this morning and I noticed during the last verse of the song the horns are so loud they practically drown out John Sebastian's voice. This is one thing I've noticed on certain records of the period on AM radio; presumably stereo music sounding different on mono AM.

Ah, but I told myself, is WJIB mono or stereo? Thought they were stereo. But am pretty sure my car
radio (in a Toyota, didn't know who made it) has only mono for AM reception. This leads me to wonder if
WJIB was indeed airing a stereo record on a stereo signal, but my mono AM receiver was only picking out
one speaker and broadcasting that rather than, say, a mixture of the two.

Pretty sure that in the 60s some records were deliberately done in mono versions for the benefit of
AM radio, etc. (A set of early Bee Gees albums has both mono and stereo versions). Anyway whether
or not WJIB was transmitting in mono, are there some situations where records from 60s, 70s, etc.
sound noticeably different when presented on a mono AM radio? And yes, there are still SOME
pop/oldies stations on AM...

There were some times when WMWM switched into mono for some technical reason (?!?) and it was interesting when you played something like Bob and Doug McKenzie's Twelve Days of Christmas. Dave
Thomas was on one speaker, Rick Moranis on the other, and seemingly one is barely heard...(so the
mono signal was pretty much choosing one speaker...?_)
 
Some stereo records, back in the day, were in "fake stereo".
That is, they were mastered/recorded mono, and then, after the fact, were
remastered in stereo, through the use of pan pots, etc. Some
recordings did it better than others...
 
chrisradioanimal said:
I think WJIB is broadcasting in mono now which stinks because I have an AM Stereo tuner in my car and in my house.
Click to expand...

I agree... believe it or not, there are actually more AM Stereo receivers our there now, then a couple years ago when WJIB was running stereo. The Sangean HDT-1/1X HD tuners will do stereo, not with wideband audio, but at least it's stereo. The Accurian HD radio that Radio Shack sold for a short time also picked it. There may be others too that I'm not aware of, but it's difficult to tell now, with our only AM Stereo station gone. Please WJIB, turn the stereo back on!
 
At WLYN, we pulled the plug on AM stereo several years ago.
Very little of our programming was in true stereo, all the
way through the air chain, it is more expensive to run,
and there are so few AM stereo receivers out there,
it was not worth it to continue...
 
Any number of things could be wrong. But let's assume nothing is, and WJIB is summing into mono the left and right channels (at equal level) of a stereo version of the song and transmitting that in mono analog AM. What could be happening is the common occurrence of several versions of a song out there and the one you heard has a poor mix when summed in mono.

It is possible the original version heard when the song was a hit is a mono record. There is no assurance a stereo mix would sound the same when summed into mono. The people who did the stereo mix may not be the same people who did the mono mix, and they heard it differently.

I think this topic has probably been discussed in depth on the 60's oldies board. But- for example there is a huge difference in the sound of original Motown mono singles and the stereo remixes that followed. I think most of the original "Hitsville" mono mixes capture the feel of the hit record much better than the vapid, fuzzy, disembodied sound of the stereo mixes.

The stereo version of Stevie Wonder's "Signed sealed and delivered" sounds like poor tape head alignment when summed to mono- the high high is swishy and dull. On the original mono single mix the high hat is sharp and crisp.
 
WLYNgm said:
At WLYN, we pulled the plug on AM stereo several years ago.
Very little of our programming was in true stereo, all the
way through the air chain, it is more expensive to run,
and there are so few AM stereo receivers out there,
it was not worth it to continue...
Click to expand...
I'm confused how it was more expensive. Was the transmitter then the same as now? Was WLYN using M20 lines? I can't imagine the few watts the exciter would use would add up to much. In a BE, they were even built in.

Personally, I have about 5 stereo radios & swear by them as opposed to mono or "HD". I look forward to WJIB being in stereo once again. If it weren't for N-Star.
 
Part of the decision was because WLYN got a new transmitter, and it was deemed that since only about 10 hours of programming was done in studio, with the rest being sent to the studio by Comrex dial up, internet streaming, or dedicated telco lines all in mono, the cost of the second phone line out to Lynn and the maintenance of the equipment didn't justify the expense for the limited amount of listeners who had stereo receivers.
 
I can confirm that WJIB is running in mono these days, when I recently reinstalled
the Nautel stereo transmitter Bob and I decided to keep it in mono as the signal seems to be a bit more robust. I also have on of the rare Ford premimum audio systems with AM stereo.
Some of the early stereo recordings and reissues on CD had serious mono compatibility problems as I found out when we put WZLX on the air in the mid 80's.
The worst seemed to be anything on the ABC Dunhill label....IE: The Mamas
and Papa's.
 
chrish said:
I can confirm that WJIB is running in mono these days, when I recently reinstalled
the Nautel stereo transmitter Bob and I decided to keep it in mono as the signal seems to be a bit more robust. I also have on of the rare Ford premimum audio systems with AM stereo.
Some of the early stereo recordings and reissues on CD had serious mono compatibility problems as I found out when we put WZLX on the air in the mid 80's.
The worst seemed to be anything on the ABC Dunhill label....IE: The Mamas
and Papa's.
Click to expand...

That's a shame. I would think there'd be more people that would appreciate the audio being in stereo then slightly more robust, especially with the kind of music WJIB plays.
 
jlehmann said:
chrish said:
I can confirm that WJIB is running in mono these days, when I recently reinstalled
the Nautel stereo transmitter Bob and I decided to keep it in mono as the signal seems to be a bit more robust.
Click to expand...

That's a shame. I would think there'd be more people that would appreciate the audio being in stereo then slightly more robust, especially with the kind of music WJIB plays.
Click to expand...

I would, but I'm one of the very few people who still has an AM stereo receiver. Really, very few people outside of us radio geeks still have them. And, HD radios with narrowband C-Quam AM stereo like the Sangean HDT-1 sound horrible on analog AM despite the stereo separation. It sounds like the music is coming from under two pillows instead of one. I still have a mid-'80s Sony wideband AM stereo receiver that sounded amazing on WJIB when it was in stereo, and it still sounds quite good even in mono because it sounds like WJIB is still broadcasting with about as much bandwidth as is allowed on analog AM.

So, I have two AM's in my home stereo "rack", the '80s wideband Sony for full-fidelity analog AM, and a Sangean HDT-1 for HD AM. (Though I also recently got an iLuv FM HD tuner because the Sangean has so much trouble getting FM HD3 channels. The iLuv has no problem with them).

As for "Darling Be Home Soon" by The Lovin' Spoonful, I remember hearing an interview years ago with John Sebastian in which he said that one channel of his vocal was inadvertently dropped from the stereo album mix of that song for some reason, some technical oversight. His voice was supposed to be in both channels, but it was recorded on only one channel which resulted in a lower total vocal level, and the record company released it that way (which he was not pleased about at the time).

Since WJIB is still playing stereo recordings mixed to mono, that song comes out with a low vocal level. If it was being played in stereo, the vocal would stand out more, though coming from only one speaker. The original mono 45 of the song that Top 40 radio played in 1967 was a different mono mix, with the vocal more prominent.
 
Eli Polonsky said:
I would, but I'm one of the very few people who still has an AM stereo receiver. Really, very few people outside of us radio geeks still have them. And, HD radios with narrowband C-Quam AM stereo like the Sangean HDT-1 sound horrible on analog AM despite the stereo separation. It sounds like the music is coming from under two pillows instead of one. I still have a mid-'80s Sony wideband AM stereo receiver that sounded amazing on WJIB when it was in stereo, and it still sounds quite good even in mono because it sounds like WJIB is still broadcasting with about as much bandwidth as is allowed on analog AM.
Click to expand...

That's very true, but I'm just wondering if the masses that don't have AM Stereo receivers are really appreciating the "robust" mono audio as much as we'd appreciate the stereo?
 
WJIB has two Nautel transmitters; one of which is compatible with the Delta AM Stereo Exciter and the other one isn't. Over the past 18 years, we have switched transmitters back and forth so many times, I can't always remember which one is presently being used. The switches I refer to are when one gets fried by either lightning or imbecilic actions by N*Star. While one is in service, the other gets driven up to Bangor to get repaired, so there's always either one or two ready to transmit 250 big ones.

As to WJIB in stereo in the future, I think we'll do it. Next time Chrish is here, we'll see what we can do about that. True, the signal was better without it, but it may be able to be as good with it.

As to 'Darling Be Home Soon', not only is the stereo version inferior (orchestra buries Sebastian), but Sebastian's voice is muddy-sounding on the record, whichever version is played.
 
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