taking AM/FM radio out of cars in 5 years or so,could it really happen ???

[wadio]

I think the programming needs to be better.

That's exactly my point. If it doesn't improve then people will reject it. And you don't think terrestrial radio IS a monopoly in the light of lagging wireless technology? Jack Welch when he was CEO of GE used to point out that even if you're Number 1 at something, if you don't fight for your position you'll soon lose that status. Terrestrial owners should see the writing on the wall.

People pay for cellphones because you pretty much have to have one in today's age

That's debatable. I have relatives who have smart phones who clearly don't need them. My Virgin Mobile dumb prepaid cell phone costs me $60 a YEAR. It makes wireless phone calls.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

^^^ MACKER, I'm with you on this one, although I do think WADIO has some good points about declining quality in today's radio programming.

From the view of one whose full-time radio days occurred in the '70s, I too believe small markets offer some the best, most entertaining programming available on the radio dial. I marvel though; no one in my day would have seen this coming. It was an era of condescending additudes, as if small market radio stations were the hapless stepchildren of the trade. Sure wish I had an opportunity in small market radio today.

 

[landtuna]

People pay for cellphones because you pretty much have to have one in today's age and it's 100+/mo because of not much competition, it's very monopolistic.

I disagree. There is no bonafide reason any child needs a cell phone. It is a convenience and a toy and in most cases a status symbol. Most adults don't need one either. Like beepers before them cell phones are a millstone around ones neck and I enjoy being out of touch so will never carry one.

My wife carries one but last week left it in her father's car so this week doesn't have access to it. It has been blissfully quiet having dinner and a conversation without the constant interruption by people who just can't wait. Before she got the phone I used to kid her that she would wind up just like our oldest daughter - attached at the ear to the phone which, when it rings, makes a mandatory answer. Sure enough, doesn't matter what she is doing. When the cell rings she makes a beeline for it.

That same daughter now spends over $200/mo for her smartphone and wonders why it is so expensive.

When I was in the Navy we used to joke about the Chiefs index fingers which were usually bent from years of carrying coffee cups. Now our kids will grow up with all four fingers bent from carrying cell phones.

 

[taylorengineer]

I think the next technology for the mobile environment will be a receiver hybrid using both terrestrial RF signals AND wireless ethernet. "Audio Media Centers" will include solid state storage devices and either GPS or cellular locating circuitry.
Content will load into receivers during unused periods. Databases based on owner demographics and daily commutes will be built. Your "radio" will know what you want, and need before you even think of it.
WNTI makes the main point - bandwidth is not infinite. Terrestrial radio is a very efficient method to deliver one way content.
Wireless will return the necessary data and offer an inaudible data path to your receiver. Listeners might be offered a menu of audio choices for scheduled breaks in the terrestrial feed - traffic, weather, sports.....you name it. Much of that can be delivered in non listening periods - up to the minute information could be placed on the storage device for playback at the listener's discretion.
The downside to hybrid audio delivery is you need a terrestrial RF signal which is a finite commodity. But for those who do have signals it would be a very efficient method for content delivery. And if we were to sunset analog broadcasting each FM channel could host potentially 8-10 unique delivery mechanisms. If much of the "mainstream" mobile content delivery were accomplished this way it would leave much more bandwidth for the other internet only stations.

 

[davideduardo]

WNTI makes the main point - bandwidth is not infinite. Terrestrial radio is a very efficient method to deliver one way content.

Therein lies the problem in today's world. Increasingly, consumers want a "pull" based entertainment environment, where they select what they want when they want it. Often, what a consumer wants is their own preferred blend of music. It's customizable at the individual level.

Radio is a "push" system. One size fits all. Not customizable beyond the number of stations that fit on the dial. Pick the one closest to what you like.

 

[rap2792]

Why is this being over analyzed? Smart phones are very close to where they need to be to replace an auto's AM/FM equipment.

Podcasts I listen to are downloaded automatically via Wifi at home/work before getting into the car. Listening to AM talk radio a big waste of time with over 50% of tme dedicated to non talk commercials/news/weather/into/outro.

On the rare occasions when "live" radio is needed I stream it. Even with the radio being right there, I'm in the habit of using smartphone to access stations online.

My own music playlists give me more variety than FM too.

Smart data streaming and improved voice commands are needed before am/fm equipment gone.

 

[wadio]

I think rap2792 represents the growing trend. Good post! Personally I'm not happy about it but I think that's where we're headed and I believe we'll get there far sooner than most people think.

This is a classic paradigm shift -- like the transition from vinyl records to CD or typewriters to word processors. There's a slow ramp-up where you can see it coming but it always looks like a long way off. Then suddenly you look around and it's here! Five years is a long time in today's technology world.

 

[landtuna]

Smart phones are very close to where they need to be to replace an auto's AM/FM equipment.

Not true. The limitations of TCP/IP are going to defeat wireless "broadcasting" beyond a certain number of connections. And streamed radio is almost never going to have the bit rates required for real quality. OTA radio does not have these limitations. In addition, although most people do have cell phones they are not universal and they are expensive. If you are willing to pay for a cell phone to use to access the 'Net and take photos and talk on the phone then streaming might be a plus for that bill you get each month but it will be considered pay radio even if you are listening to a "free" OTA station from somewhere. There are a ton of people who will not pay for radio in their cars and even more who would want the ability to hear local weather and traffic.

I think streaming will continue to be a feature of existing in-dash radios for the next decade at least rather than a complete replacement.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

WHAT IF?

Several years ago.... the SUV had become established as a "family workhorse" vehicle that was still more truck than car. But the luxury brands were beginning to "stick their toes in the water" with upgraded versions.

A daughter of mine who was on a one-woman-crusade to burn up the world's supply of jet fuel found herself seated next to a large-economy-sized guy on a flight. He as dressed as though he would head for the nearest trail and start hiking when the plane landed. OH, BOY! she thought.

Conversation began. It turns out he was a rather sophisticated guy doing market research for an automobile company. He had been to a major city where he took a list of new owners of SUVs who lived in upscale neighborhoods and engaged those buyers in research interviews. None of this "On a scale of 1 to 10, rank your satisf.....". No, sit down with the family and just let the comments roll out. What brand/model did you buy? What else did you look at? What feature(s) guided your decision.

I don't remember which brand he worked for, and I wouldn't feel comfortable revealing his connection if I did remember, but the bottom line of his research... what he was reporting to his company: We priced our SUV too cheap! The buyers we are targeting expect exclusivity. They don't want to pull up to a vehicle like their own at a stoplight and look out of the corner of their eye and see that Joe & Molly Sixpack are driving the same thing on their way McDonalds that the "target market" folks are driving to the most exclusive country club in town.

That little tale has nothing to do with including or excluding radios from the dash of new vehicles.... EXCEPT- the auto industry may or may not be doing a better, more sophisticated job of market research than most of us are. The question is: Is the broadcast industry doing that level of market research. The guy in the plaid flannel hikers shirt costume may have been out interviewing Joe & Molly Sixpack recently and finding out whether a radio in the dash is important to them.

When I read the title to this thread.... I have to wonder if the auto industry is way out in front of the rest of us.... or is wandering around the picnic grounds in a hiker's shirt when they ought to be crunching data.

 

[Ai4i]

T-mobile now offers unlimited 4G web for $20/month.

 

[ProducerGuy]

T-mobile now offers unlimited 4G web for $20/month.

And has terrible coverage.

We're 50 years from AM/FM radio being obsolete.

 

[radiowizard101]

Data note: Information in this press release was derived from NPD’s “Music Acquisition Monitor,” based on data from 7,600 NPD consumer surveys. Survey data was weighted to represent U.S. population of Internet users (age 13 and older).

Who is NPD? How qualitative is their research? Note that this particular survey was WEIGHTED to represent INTERNET USERS 13 and older. Something smells fishy with this data.

However, it is true that the young folks are embracing alternates to OTA broadcasting. The biggest observation is TOO MANY COMMERCIALS. The second is LAME MUSIC SELECTION. The big broadcast groups need to face this reality. People are being bombarded with too many interruptions that last a very long time. Where's the entertainment value in that?

Add tight repetitive over researched playlists with loads of commercials and you have a recipe for failure in capturing the technological savy listener. It's time to loosen up the music and play NO MORE than 2 commercial messages per break. AND PLEASE... DON'T ASK ME TO LIKE YOU (because I don't) ON FACEBOOK OR BEG FOR TWITTER RESPONSE... PLEASE STOP THAT PRACTICE!!! Talk about anything... STOP THE BEGGING. It make you sound desperate.

 

[wadio]

We're 50 years from AM/FM radio being obsolete.

AM radio is already obsolete and has been for some time. FM will become obsolete as soon as bandwidth becomes cheaper than RF infrastructure. Audio CDs are effectively obsolete but that doesn't mean they'll disappear in the very near future.

An obsolete technology will continue to exist as along as there are legacy users, and as long as there's enough profit in it. My guess is that the bottom line will kill broadcast radio long before the legacy users expire ... and that will be much sooner than 50 years from now!

 

[ronald54321]

What's AM/FM?

 

[Board Editor]

MOVED: OTA: taking AM/FM radio out of cars in 5 years or so,could it really happen ???

Some posts in this thread has been moved to Off The Air.

[iurl=http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=232492.0]http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=232492.0[/iurl]

 

[landtuna]

AM radio is already obsolete and has been for some time.

What is your definition of "obsolete"? I submit AM itself is not obsolete but its implementation has been crippled by several things. One is frequency crowding - too many stations. Another is HD - introduces copious amounts of noise without any real benefit. Another is all the electronic gadgets out there putting noise into the same freq range. None of this was necessary and AM could have continued to serve us well into the future as it has the range that other broadcast mediums do not.

FM will become obsolete as soon as bandwidth becomes cheaper than RF infrastructure.

A solution for the capacity limitations of IP need to be found or it won't matter how much bandwidth is available. And, wireless "broadcasting" is still limited (severely) by distance and that will not change.

Audio CDs are effectively obsolete but that doesn't mean they'll disappear in the very near future.

How does something still working to perfection become "obsolete"? Does that also mean flash drives are obsolete as well? Nothing has come along to replace either technology and especially at the price points of CD's, DVD's and flash drives.

An obsolete technology will continue to exist as along as there are legacy users, and as long as there's enough profit in it. My guess is that the bottom line will kill broadcast radio long before the legacy users expire ... and that will be much sooner than 50 years from now!

You just contradicted yourself. As long as a technology continues to serve its customer it is not obsolete. Are there better alternatives? Perhaps. What about XP? Its installed base remains larger than Win8 - is it obsolete? The answer is, of course, no. Dial phones still work. Landlines have better fidelity and reliability than cell phones so which is obsolete?

Your argument needs work and should begin with an understanding of "obsolete".

 

[TheBigA]

The biggest observation is TOO MANY COMMERCIALS. The second is LAME MUSIC SELECTION. The big broadcast groups need to face this reality. People are being bombarded with too many interruptions that last a very long time. Where's the entertainment value in that?

I think music radio has sought to cut back on interruptions. The old WABC played commercials between every song. Now, a typical FM in NYC has two or three breaks an hour. But the fact is that commercials are how the media pay for themselves. Sure, people want to hear music for free. But everyone wants to get paid, from the people making the music to the staffers at the station. You can't cut spots, pay the rent, and hire staff at the same time. As for music selection, it is what it is. Going back to WABC, did I like every song? Of course not. But I stuck with it because every now and then I'd hear something good. Listeners need to recognize that the only way to get a station that plays everything you like without commercials is to pay for it. The option is available. This thread is about in-car options, and they all involve some type of fee. Either satellite or data plan. If you want more choices in the car, you will pay.

 

[landtuna]

If you want more choices in the car, you will pay.

Well, not always. If we are talking about music in the car CD/DVD's and flash sticks remain a good option. You can create your own personal library (with jingles and without commercials, as you wish) and have a virtually endless supply of music that will not skip, drop-out or make you mad.

CD's cost about 7 cents per and DVD's just a tad more. Flash sticks are very inexpensive and hold gigagobs of music. Technically it is a pay per play but the cost is infinitesimal.

For those of us with newer cars HD radio is also a freebie although it does have its limitations.

Lots of choices and still plenty of free or close to free choices.

 

[TheBigA]

Lots of choices and still plenty of free or close to free choices.

Thanks but I thought we're talking about radio options.

 

[landtuna]

Lots of choices and still plenty of free or close to free choices.

Thanks but I thought we're talking about radio options.

I thought we were talking about music radio options.

You've got 3 OTA choices which are free and a few more which are music in your car but not necessarily radio-based.