A friend and I were discussing the local small AM radio station that's located in the town where he works which also happens to be the town where I live. I was telling him if I was running the station I'd run an oldies format playing muysic from 1959-1974. He said he'd like to see the station return to its previous Hip-Hop format. He doesn't beleive me when I tell him hip-hop won't work on AM when there are two FM hip-hop stations in the market. He says as long as a station is decently programmed it doesn't matter if its an AM station running hte same format as 2 FMers. One of ther reasons he sees a need for a 3rd hip-hop station is the fact that 104.1 plays Slow Jams 9PM-12AM and 93.7 plays Slow Jams 10PM-2AM. I also mentioned to him even if were possible for an AM hip-hop station to co-exist with 2FMers that the night time signal is non-existant in most of the market. He says he didn't care if it were against FCC's regulation he'd run it full power 24/7. How do can I convince my friend he's bonkers?
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Tell a non-radio type why Music Won't work on AM if an FM runs the same format
- Thread starter MarcB
- Start date
J
JasonW
Guest
MarcB said:A friend and I were discussing the local small AM radio station that's located in the town where he works which also happens to be the town where I live. I was telling him if I was running the station I'd run an oldies format playing muysic from 1959-1974. He said he'd like to see the station return to its previous Hip-Hop format. He doesn't beleive me when I tell him hip-hop won't work on AM when there are two FM hip-hop stations in the market. He says as long as a station is decently programmed it doesn't matter if its an AM station running hte same format as 2 FMers. One of ther reasons he sees a need for a 3rd hip-hop station is the fact that 104.1 plays Slow Jams 9PM-12AM and 93.7 plays Slow Jams 10PM-2AM. I also mentioned to him even if were possible for an AM hip-hop station to co-exist with 2FMers that the night time signal is non-existant in most of the market. He says he didn't care if it were against FCC's regulation he'd run it full power 24/7. How do can I convince my friend he's bonkers?
He's not bonkers. There are quite a few successful AM music stations around the country and not all of them are country or oldies stations, as Radio Disney is broadcast on many AM stations. AM can sound very good if one takes care to optimize each stage in the audio chain from the audio source to the transmitter and to use the maximum legal bandwidth.
Adding C-QUAM AM Stereo is another option, and it is 100% compatible with existing mono audio AM radios. FM Stereo/C-QUAM AM Stereo receivers are still installed as standard equipment in many cars, and Sony makes several models of FM Stereo/C-QUAM AM Stereo Walkman and "boombox" receivers.
It comes down to programming. Offer something that the FM Hip-Hop stations may not offer, such as showcasing new or obscure Hip-Hop artists, having live interviews with Hip-Hop artists (including calls from local listeners), promoting local Hip-Hop performances, playing more "Side B" songs, etc.). Being different and distinctive within the genre will attract and hold listeners.
Also, the bad night coverage can be at least partially overcome. Offer "Select-A-Tenna" AM antenna boosters on the station web site (a link to the C. Crane Company's web site on the station's web site is all he would need). Also, live Hip-Hop concert recordings and artist interviews could be broadcast more at night (the audio quality is less important with all of the audience noise on concert recordings, as well as for artist interviews).
-- Jason
Radio is something that everyone thinks they know..just like on Monday morning they "know" what play should have been called the day before. I have a friend who insists that the AM station I work for needs to adopt a consipracy/occult/paranormal format with programming for "psychic" children. You just can't tell her that 1) it can't possibly work, unless its at 3am, 2) it wouldn't sell and 3) the station is owned by by-the-book evangelical Christians!
How do can I convince my friend he's bonkers?
I wouldn't say bonkers, but definitely not "in the loop" insofar as the business side of radio. The key to AM radio's success today is local, local, local. People turn to FM for music, and AM for information. However, you can run music on an AM station and it still can be successful, but you will always get a high number of 55 plus listeners by default, regardless of what your target audience is. Not all minorities listen to urban radio, and it's always had a smaller audience to begin with. I would suggest perhaps an adult urban format if your friend wants to program it to an African-American audience. You try to position a hip-hop AM against two established FM's of like format, it will DIE a very GRISLY death.
You can also tell your friend that the current fine for running an AM station higher than its allowed power is now at $20,000. He can have the best attorneys ever in his corner, and claim hardship all he wants, it's not going to make a bit of difference. The commission frown on gross disregard of the rules...especially where that is concerned. They're even hard on the stations that don't keep their public files up to date.
I wouldn't say bonkers, but definitely not "in the loop" insofar as the business side of radio. The key to AM radio's success today is local, local, local. People turn to FM for music, and AM for information. However, you can run music on an AM station and it still can be successful, but you will always get a high number of 55 plus listeners by default, regardless of what your target audience is. Not all minorities listen to urban radio, and it's always had a smaller audience to begin with. I would suggest perhaps an adult urban format if your friend wants to program it to an African-American audience. You try to position a hip-hop AM against two established FM's of like format, it will DIE a very GRISLY death.
You can also tell your friend that the current fine for running an AM station higher than its allowed power is now at $20,000. He can have the best attorneys ever in his corner, and claim hardship all he wants, it's not going to make a bit of difference. The commission frown on gross disregard of the rules...especially where that is concerned. They're even hard on the stations that don't keep their public files up to date.
R
radiofriend1
Guest
in most markets of any influential size (top 75) why would u go to scratchy, static-laden AM to hear music u can get on FM, satellite, internet or your ipod?
not in all cases, but **FOR THE MOST PART**, AM is no longer a band for music, at least not if you want ratings to generate revenue
if U don't care about ratings or revenue then play whatever music on AM. just don't expect measurable response or success (or profit)
not in all cases, but **FOR THE MOST PART**, AM is no longer a band for music, at least not if you want ratings to generate revenue
if U don't care about ratings or revenue then play whatever music on AM. just don't expect measurable response or success (or profit)
in most markets of any influential size (top 75) why would u go to scratchy, static-laden AM to hear music u can get on FM, satellite, internet or your ipod?
not in all cases, but **FOR THE MOST PART**, AM is no longer a band for music, at least not if you want ratings to generate revenue
if U don't care about ratings or revenue then play whatever music on AM. just don't expect measurable response or success (or profit)
I would agree with you insofar as major market. In the smaller markets, you can get away with playing music as long as you had enough full-service elements (news, sports, weather, etc.) to balance it out. Base it primarily on information, with the music playing a very secondary role. To run an AM station solely as a music machine (unless it's a very niche format) is suicide.
not in all cases, but **FOR THE MOST PART**, AM is no longer a band for music, at least not if you want ratings to generate revenue
if U don't care about ratings or revenue then play whatever music on AM. just don't expect measurable response or success (or profit)
I would agree with you insofar as major market. In the smaller markets, you can get away with playing music as long as you had enough full-service elements (news, sports, weather, etc.) to balance it out. Base it primarily on information, with the music playing a very secondary role. To run an AM station solely as a music machine (unless it's a very niche format) is suicide.
Most of the AMers I know of, are like that. They focus on News, Talk and Sports based programming, with some music elements mixed in.
In my area, AM begain its morph into talk and info, back in the early 90s. Most of the AMers I get, have between 1000 to around 10,000 watts of power. Some of the bigger stations from Birmingham are the exception.
Another thing to consider, make sure your AM station has a clear sound quality. Most of the AMers I can get, have a sorry sound quality, with a very loud hum in the background. Some of these AMers also have a distorted sound, which is very fatiguing to listen to.
Four examples include:
WMRK 1340 AM (Selma) (Humming and other assorted forms of noise in the Background) (Oldies and Talk),
WHBB 1490 AM (Selma) (An Awful Humming Sound, with WMRK sometimes bleeding in.) (Conservative Talk and Black Gospel)
WIQR 1410 AM (Prattville) (From what I have read, on the Bama Board, they have a distorted sound) (I discovered what that poster meant, for I found their station very fatiguing to listen to, the last time I checked them out.) (Full Service)
WBIB 1110 AM (Centreville) (When I last tuned in to that station, I couldn't hear what the singers were saying, because the sound quality was very distorted and beyond fatiguing) (It was just plain inexcusable, especially for a 1000 watt daytimer.) (Southern Gospel)
R.D.P. <><
In my area, AM begain its morph into talk and info, back in the early 90s. Most of the AMers I get, have between 1000 to around 10,000 watts of power. Some of the bigger stations from Birmingham are the exception.
Another thing to consider, make sure your AM station has a clear sound quality. Most of the AMers I can get, have a sorry sound quality, with a very loud hum in the background. Some of these AMers also have a distorted sound, which is very fatiguing to listen to.
Four examples include:
WMRK 1340 AM (Selma) (Humming and other assorted forms of noise in the Background) (Oldies and Talk),
WHBB 1490 AM (Selma) (An Awful Humming Sound, with WMRK sometimes bleeding in.) (Conservative Talk and Black Gospel)
WIQR 1410 AM (Prattville) (From what I have read, on the Bama Board, they have a distorted sound) (I discovered what that poster meant, for I found their station very fatiguing to listen to, the last time I checked them out.) (Full Service)
WBIB 1110 AM (Centreville) (When I last tuned in to that station, I couldn't hear what the singers were saying, because the sound quality was very distorted and beyond fatiguing) (It was just plain inexcusable, especially for a 1000 watt daytimer.) (Southern Gospel)
R.D.P. <><
Another thing to consider, make sure your AM station has a clear sound quality. Most of the AMers I can get, have a sorry sound quality, with a very loud hum in the background. Some of these AMers also have a distorted sound, which is very fatiguing to listen to.
Very true. I love Optimod and Pyramid processors. They're very good about making AM sound at least somewhat competitive with FM. Most of the technical problems that you speak of I have seen with AM stations that have their studios co-located with their transmitter facilities. If you have that transmitter too close to the main studio, that RF noise is going to come through, and no amount of grounding is going to fix that. Co-located studio and transmitter create all kinds of special problems for computers, phone systems, and studios. Anyone who's thinking of putting the two together needs to consult an engineer about a floor plan layout in advance. Otherwise, don't be surprised if your AM sounds like a tin can.
Very true. I love Optimod and Pyramid processors. They're very good about making AM sound at least somewhat competitive with FM. Most of the technical problems that you speak of I have seen with AM stations that have their studios co-located with their transmitter facilities. If you have that transmitter too close to the main studio, that RF noise is going to come through, and no amount of grounding is going to fix that. Co-located studio and transmitter create all kinds of special problems for computers, phone systems, and studios. Anyone who's thinking of putting the two together needs to consult an engineer about a floor plan layout in advance. Otherwise, don't be surprised if your AM sounds like a tin can.
M
MaiTKwinn
Guest
Re: RDP's Observations
Having been a Chief Engineer of a daytime Gospel/Religious station, I can
tell you that one of the biggest problems I have run across has to do with
programs that are supplied to the station already recorded, or ones that
come in live via simple phone coupler hookup. Unfortunately, even though
we try to educate the pastors & staffs about proper recording techniques,
much of what is supplied is simply bad audio. It's recorded on cheap boom
box type units and usually at levels that are well distorted (the louder the
better, right?). Or it comes in over a simple 300Hz-3Khz phone line with
strictly phone quality audio and again at levels that are not properly
controlled. Aside from having decent studio & transmitter equipment that
is properly installed & wired, remember that you can have the best audio
processing in the world (Omnia/Orban, etc.), but if you put garbage IN, you
get garbage OUT !!!! No processor will cure that problem. Too many stations just want to grab the preachers' bucks and then wonder why they
sound so bad on the air......
Chris Quinn,CE
WABQ-AM 1540
Cleveland, OH
Having been a Chief Engineer of a daytime Gospel/Religious station, I can
tell you that one of the biggest problems I have run across has to do with
programs that are supplied to the station already recorded, or ones that
come in live via simple phone coupler hookup. Unfortunately, even though
we try to educate the pastors & staffs about proper recording techniques,
much of what is supplied is simply bad audio. It's recorded on cheap boom
box type units and usually at levels that are well distorted (the louder the
better, right?). Or it comes in over a simple 300Hz-3Khz phone line with
strictly phone quality audio and again at levels that are not properly
controlled. Aside from having decent studio & transmitter equipment that
is properly installed & wired, remember that you can have the best audio
processing in the world (Omnia/Orban, etc.), but if you put garbage IN, you
get garbage OUT !!!! No processor will cure that problem. Too many stations just want to grab the preachers' bucks and then wonder why they
sound so bad on the air......
Chris Quinn,CE
WABQ-AM 1540
Cleveland, OH
if you put garbage IN, you get garbage OUT !!!!
Agreed. I wasn't even thinking of time-brokered radio, with programs produced off-site. However, if you talk to these preachers and those who buy the time about this, they'll maintain that their audience doesn't care how it sounds...just as long as it's on the air. In most cases, they're right.
Agreed. I wasn't even thinking of time-brokered radio, with programs produced off-site. However, if you talk to these preachers and those who buy the time about this, they'll maintain that their audience doesn't care how it sounds...just as long as it's on the air. In most cases, they're right.
Re: Tell a non-radio type why Music Won't work on AM if an FM runs the same form
Run full power in unlicensed periods? Your friend is bonkers in that area! About the fastest way to lose everything!
As for music on AM, it can work - particularly if it is a format that is NOT available on FM. I would also suggest a combination of music and SERVICE elements could work also. Expect older demos.
Biggest problem is quality. Side by side, FM offer better quality audio - even under the best circumstances. The bandwidth is about double, therefore better quality audio. The right engineer, with a big enough budget, can make AM sound pretty good.
Finally, one decent AM in a market is not as good as having two. Create some competition within the band and people are more apt to check it out. Most modern radios can switch from AM to FM easily with no need to retune.
It is about marketing! The best format, the most exclusive music, the best service and personalities, are all worthless unless people know about them. AM stations need to advertise to survive and few have the resources to do it!
Run full power in unlicensed periods? Your friend is bonkers in that area! About the fastest way to lose everything!
As for music on AM, it can work - particularly if it is a format that is NOT available on FM. I would also suggest a combination of music and SERVICE elements could work also. Expect older demos.
Biggest problem is quality. Side by side, FM offer better quality audio - even under the best circumstances. The bandwidth is about double, therefore better quality audio. The right engineer, with a big enough budget, can make AM sound pretty good.
Finally, one decent AM in a market is not as good as having two. Create some competition within the band and people are more apt to check it out. Most modern radios can switch from AM to FM easily with no need to retune.
It is about marketing! The best format, the most exclusive music, the best service and personalities, are all worthless unless people know about them. AM stations need to advertise to survive and few have the resources to do it!
It is about marketing! The best format, the most exclusive music, the best service and personalities, are all worthless unless people know about them. AM stations need to advertise to survive and few have the resources to do it!
Agreed. If money is a problem (like a lack of it), that's a hurdle you're likely not to overcome. I've found that AM's have to work at least five times as hard as FM's to achieve the same results.
Agreed. If money is a problem (like a lack of it), that's a hurdle you're likely not to overcome. I've found that AM's have to work at least five times as hard as FM's to achieve the same results.
Re: Tell a non-radio type why Music Won't work on AM if an FM runs the same form
Just depends on the AM and the mindset of the owner. Of course, there are successful AMs in virtually every market in America. Most, admittedly, are news-talk, but if a market in underserved with music formats (like oldies) an AM with a good signal and streaming could be successful.
Noone said it would be easy! But it is doable if you are willing to invest time and money into it!
Just depends on the AM and the mindset of the owner. Of course, there are successful AMs in virtually every market in America. Most, admittedly, are news-talk, but if a market in underserved with music formats (like oldies) an AM with a good signal and streaming could be successful.
Noone said it would be easy! But it is doable if you are willing to invest time and money into it!
an AM with a good signal and streaming could be successful.
No argument...streaming audio other than music (news, local talk and local high school sports) is a good idea. I don't know of any small market operator who can afford to stream music. Too much money to do it legally, and too risky to do illegally.
No argument...streaming audio other than music (news, local talk and local high school sports) is a good idea. I don't know of any small market operator who can afford to stream music. Too much money to do it legally, and too risky to do illegally.
Re: Tell a non-radio type why Music Won't work on AM if an FM runs the same form
The RIAA and AFTRA have really hurt themselves with the expensive streaming royalties. Why not do it like over the air radio? Base it on a percentage of revenue generated. Of course, that would require internet broadcasters to tell the truth about their income! :~)
The RIAA and AFTRA have really hurt themselves with the expensive streaming royalties. Why not do it like over the air radio? Base it on a percentage of revenue generated. Of course, that would require internet broadcasters to tell the truth about their income! :~)
Why not do it like over the air radio? Base it on a percentage of revenue generated.
There lies the rub...the percentage is what's kept broadcasters moaning about fees being too high to begin with. Even if you play two or three songs in any given hour, you have to report it as playing music the entire hour, whether you did or not. Something's gotta give.
There lies the rub...the percentage is what's kept broadcasters moaning about fees being too high to begin with. Even if you play two or three songs in any given hour, you have to report it as playing music the entire hour, whether you did or not. Something's gotta give.
Re: Tell a non-radio type why Music Won't work on AM if an FM runs the same form
I understand the rub for over-the-air stations. If you don't play a great deal of music, you can do a per-program license and negotiate the deal. Talk stations, for example, pay a royalty for Rush because of his song parodies, and high profile bumber music. But the conceeded quarter hours are not the same as a full blown music station.
The percentage of revenue makes sense for Internet radio because most don't make any money, anyway. See R&R for an article about the demise of WOXY.
Listen, performers and composers deserve a royalty for their performance. Music stations make billions of dollars a year because of those performances and they should have to pay something for their primary inventory. The % of revenue is about as fair as it can get. The actual percentage may be out of wack, but the royalty in some degree is justified.
I understand the rub for over-the-air stations. If you don't play a great deal of music, you can do a per-program license and negotiate the deal. Talk stations, for example, pay a royalty for Rush because of his song parodies, and high profile bumber music. But the conceeded quarter hours are not the same as a full blown music station.
The percentage of revenue makes sense for Internet radio because most don't make any money, anyway. See R&R for an article about the demise of WOXY.
Listen, performers and composers deserve a royalty for their performance. Music stations make billions of dollars a year because of those performances and they should have to pay something for their primary inventory. The % of revenue is about as fair as it can get. The actual percentage may be out of wack, but the royalty in some degree is justified.
Listen, performers and composers deserve a royalty for their performance. Music stations make billions of dollars a year because of those performances and they should have to pay something for their primary inventory. The % of revenue is about as fair as it can get. The actual percentage may be out of wack, but the royalty in some degree is justified.
I don't dispute that. However, how much of that money is the composer/performer getting and how much of a cut is ASCAP/BMI/SESAC taking? Same argument as how big of a cut is a record company taking as opposed to its act from record (now I'm dating myself) sales.
I don't dispute that. However, how much of that money is the composer/performer getting and how much of a cut is ASCAP/BMI/SESAC taking? Same argument as how big of a cut is a record company taking as opposed to its act from record (now I'm dating myself) sales.
It COULD work in mountainous areas or in deep valleys where FM might be inconsistent. It COULD work in those areas if a very creative AM station might try to capture a number of different segments by targeting their market for the time period that audience might listen. You can target the "stay at homes" from 9 to say 3 PM with one music format and target the audience that is more likely to be commuting from say 7AM-9AM and 3-6PM. Maybe target a 3rd segment on the weekend with entirely different program. Something for everyone? Some of the Hot Ac and classic rock stations seem to play the same stuff. An AM operator might discover the weaknesses of his or her "competition" and better need the needs of the community.
You can target the "stay at homes" from 9 to say 3 PM with one music format and target the audience that is more likely to be commuting from say 7AM-9AM and 3-6PM. Maybe target a 3rd segment on the weekend with entirely different program. Something for everyone? Some of the Hot Ac and classic rock stations seem to play the same stuff. An AM operator might discover the weaknesses of his or her "competition" and better need the needs of the community.
Very interesting, Vibe. This reminds me back in the late 80's, when the small-market AM/FM combo that I used to work for ran a daytime format (AC) and a nighttime format (country). The country format was very profitable until about 1990, when the Gulf War recession hit and we lost a considerable amount of revenue from everyone being glued to CNN. I don't think anyone does this anymore, and it would be very interesting to see the concept resurrected and someone proving that it can be profitable if the advertiser support is there.
Very interesting, Vibe. This reminds me back in the late 80's, when the small-market AM/FM combo that I used to work for ran a daytime format (AC) and a nighttime format (country). The country format was very profitable until about 1990, when the Gulf War recession hit and we lost a considerable amount of revenue from everyone being glued to CNN. I don't think anyone does this anymore, and it would be very interesting to see the concept resurrected and someone proving that it can be profitable if the advertiser support is there.
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