The apocalypse of radio in Cincinnati?

[punchbuggy]

While I am as amused by the chain of events as everyone else, I can't help but wonder if all the changes won't make the average Cincinnati radio user just give up and move on.

There has never in my memory been SO much upheaval on the tri-state airwaves at the same time. We as radio geeks find it entertaining to speculate and discuss; Joe "I listen in my truck" may decide to stick in a CD and forget it.

The corporate decision-makers may feel like they are playing a strategic game of radio chess to get the upper hand in the market. Will the average listener play along or move along?

 

[88.9 Miracle]

I'm sitting back and enjoying it. http://www.ClassXradio.com has exploded. Our phone is ringing off the hook and we get a steady flow of email traffic as well. I think the Cincinnati mess will just help us more.

 

[ouuc]

Phones ringing off the hook don't mean squat. You are what you are...a 4600-watt non-commercial station hemmed in on the dial with all the high school and church-affiliated stations, and with limited penetration in Cincinnati. I congratulate you on your ability to launch a station successfully, but you won't pick up any of the fallout. None of the stations that are playing "musical frequencies" or "musical owners" play the same type of music that you do. And, even if they were, listeners generally don't venture below 92 on the dial unless they want NPR, classical, jazz or AAA. So have fun, enjoy the ride, but don't flatter yourself.

 

[hipporadio]

Phones ringing off the hook don't mean squat. You are what you are...a 4600-watt non-commercial station hemmed in on the dial with all the high school and church-affiliated stations, and with limited penetration in Cincinnati. I congratulate you on your ability to launch a station successfully, but you won't pick up any of the fallout. None of the stations that are playing "musical frequencies" or "musical owners" play the same type of music that you do. And, even if they were, listeners generally don't venture below 92 on the dial unless they want NPR, classical, jazz or AAA. So have fun, enjoy the ride, but don't flatter yourself.

OH COME ON for goodness sake! Why is it whenever a "breath of fresh air" surfaces in this business--SOMEONE (usually tied to corporate radio "welfare" above 91.9 on a 50kw stick) has to kick in some of their own stink?

The folks at ClassX do a good job with their 4600 "hemmed-in" watts--and are entitled to a bit of self-promotion... 'Like that NEVER happens in radio... I can hardly wait to witness the big dog's version of the same--once they finally tire of their musical frequency and format games :

 

[ouuc]

It wasn't self-promotion. It was a prediction. A prediction that I think is way off-base. It's got nothing to do with "corporate radio". If Classic X programmed country or alternative rock, then they might catch some of the fall-out. But for an employee of the station (I'm guessing) to come on the board and say, "I think we'll benefit from this" is ludicrous at best.

So I guess these boards are all about what the posters like and don't like. It's not about analyzing the local radio scene from a business/programming standpoint.

 

[hipporadio]

It wasn't self-promotion. It was a prediction. A prediction that I think is way off-base. It's got nothing to do with "corporate radio". If Classic X programmed country or alternative rock, then they might catch some of the fall-out. But for an employee of the station (I'm guessing) to come on the board and say, "I think we'll benefit from this" is ludicrous at best.

So I guess these boards are all about what the posters like and don't like. It's not about analyzing the local radio scene from a business/programming standpoint.

“ouuc”... Let’s just kick back, enjoy a “cold one” (since it’s near quitting time on Friday), and dissect the “88.9 Miracle” post...

< I’m sitting back and enjoying it >... Well so are a lot of radio-types—maybe even you—and me also (and I don’t even own a non-com) :'(

< [ClassX web address] has exploded, Our phone is ringing off the hook and we get a steady flow of Email as well >... ‘Sounds like self-promotion to me—and that’s fine... NewsFlash—the “big boys” do it also! Phones ringing and a busy Email server may have NOTHING to do with the “musical whatever” in Cincy radio.

< I think the Cincinnati mess will just help us >... Then you must ask “how?” Could they be “helped” in a way unrelated to the migratory habits of those Country and Alt Rock listeners? I doubt the older and seasoned entity (at ClassX) that managed thru sheer perseverance to get a new full-power FM on the air over metro Cincy in this new millennium REALLY expects to gain listeners from the wayward habits of a cadre of “suits” playing “hop-scotch” with Country and low-end Rock channels. Could they logically be looking to become more legitimate thru their own longevity? No supposition required, but ClassX has been around longer as an LPFM—and now a non-com in the Cincy area—then the product and/or ownership on the 94.9, 96.5, 97.3, 98.5, 100.3, 101.9, 103.5, and 105.1 frequencies. WHEW! Heck... The locks weren’t changed at 94.9 and 103.5 before yet a new “under new management” sign went up.

I guess my root point here is... Cut these enthusiasts some slack. Some (of dubious association) have smeared the ClassX folks since their sign-on—even going so far as to slander them with half-baked allegations of “serious FCC violations” before they were but a single month into operation on the 88.9 frequency. My father always warned me... “If you take a swing at someone half your size—you’re not a man”. ClassX is FAR LESS than half your size!

 

[gr8oldies]

As far as this situation driving listeners away from radio, I wouldn't think so. The vast majority of stations (with the highest ratings) were unnaffected. WMVX, WRRM, WEBN, WUBE, all the Clear Channel AMs all had business as usual. WGRR only will get a facelift.

 

[keys2]

OH COME ON for goodness sake! Why is it whenever a "breath of fresh air" surfaces in this business--SOMEONE (usually tied to corporate radio "welfare" above 91.9 on a 50kw stick) has to kick in some of their own stink?

The folks at ClassX do a good job with their 4600 "hemmed-in" watts--and are entitled to a bit of self-promotion... 'Like that NEVER happens in radio... I can hardly wait to witness the big dog's version of the same--once they finally tire of their musical frequency and format games :

...and...

I guess my root point here is... Cut these enthusiasts some slack. Some (of dubious association) have smeared the ClassX folks since their sign-on—even going so far as to slander them with half-baked allegations of “serious FCC violations” before they were but a single month into operation on the 88.9 frequency.

Well said, hippo. ClassX is for the most part a breath of fresh air. They are an alternative to the big boys. Everyone screams for something different but when an enthusiast finally does something a little different and tries to get in a few plugs, he is called "way off base." Sheesh. Come on. The little stations that ouuc is fond of criticizing, like ClassX and 97X, aren't attempting to compete at the corporate level. Cut them a little slack for pete's sake. It's nice that there are still some people in radio who aren't afraid to follow a vision.

 

[ouuc]

Are you guys illiterate? Retarded? Blind? Pick one.

I didn't say anything bad about the station. I just said they're not going to get any bump from all the station swapping.

It's wonderful that these stations keep popping up on the dial. They're just not a factor in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Clemwriter]

ClassX is FAR LESS than half your size!

You'd think I'd like ClassX. God, the Devil, Bandit and most of this board knows I've never been a corporate radio lackey. So someone...anyone with a radio transmitter...even ClassX is bigger than me. By your logic that must mean I can offer my take. I decided to spend some time tonight with ClassX by the net stream. I can't get them over the air at my apartment. The first song I really cared about hearing was two hours in...Bye Bye Love. I could care less about the rest of it. Uncle Billy (as the burned out sounding blowhard trying way too hard to be a DJ called him) and his radooga (whatever that is) is dead wrong if he thinks his 20,000 song ClassX is something anyone outside of the geek enthusiasts will spend time with. The music is too unfamiliar...way too unfamiliar. As for a breath of fresh air? The production and DJ presentation is dated just like the stale stench of some really bad Colombian in my mom's basement. This thing would have rocked when I blazed up a blunt in high school. Now it's just laughable. Cut them some slack? They made the choice to get themselves into this...they made their own battle. If they're not trying to compete with the big boys they shouldn't waste their time with the corporate radio trash talk posturing. If you put it on the air you're open game. I guess my root point is...enough of the hey I'm bein' a DJ "let's get mellow and really blow the day" act. These guys need to know when to shut up and play some music someone might really care about hearing. It may be fun for the boys at ClassX to play some Little Rascals movie Spanky and Alfalfa put on a show fantasy. In real life they're just making noise. And that's no better than the corporate buzz we all can't stand. Sorry but ol' Clem is just bein' real.

 

[gr8oldies]

What hobbyists don't get is the idea because they, and by extension, "everyone" is "sick of the same songs over and over again", the solution, and the way to success uis to play super-large, super-unfamiliar playlists, really thinking that audiences will sit through hours and hours of stuff theyu don't know and don't like, just waituing for the one cut they liked from an album they bought 35 years ago. In the real world, it doesn't happen.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

As someone who's written about this mess from afar, let me stake some middle ground here.

Yes, massive shuffling of frequencies is never a good thing as far as listeners go, unless a station is adept enough to move its listening base to a new frequency (particularly if that frequency is better).

It amounts to a "reset", as it were...the moving stations basically start from scratch, and the existing stations generally benefit.

Entercom, for example, will end up with country "97.3 The Wolf", a station which (or parts of which) will end up on its third frequency in the past few weeks. Country WUBE/105.1 will surely benefit...but...guess what? Entercom now has them, too. So, for them, it's a wash - and a slight boost for the station they clearly consider the leader of the two, with 97.3's new country format being called a "flanker" for B105.

The new alleged rocker at 94.9 will be a new station anyway, as is the just launched "SuperTalk" at 96.5.

Up here, classical WCLV is still reeling from being shunted to a west-side rimshot from a full market class B in the 2001 "Great Frequency Swap". Hot AC WKDD has mostly recovered from being moved to a Canton-licensed signal, but there were some lean times in there. Sports WKNR is much lower on 850 than it was on 1220, but there are other issues there besides the frequency change.

The Cincinnati situation is different.

As for whether Bill's "ClassX" gains - sure, why not? It won't be a huge deal, as I suspect even Bill realizes. As mentioned, none of the stations involved are in the same format.

There could, though, be a few "Star" listeners tired of following their station around, who also like classic rock - and could end up checking Bill's station. There have been entire stations started on the premise that there is some country/rock crossover, including one in Ohio, even.

But I suspect the vast majority of 'em will either keep resetting their presets for the new station - perhaps, if they like the morning show, which is moving with it - or more likely, will end up in the Land of B. Or off the dial entirely and into CDs, iPods and XM/Sirius.

Don't begrudge the ClassX folks and their self-promotion. It seems to be a "cool" station that appeals to a niche, and I don't think Bill is actually putting himself in the same universe as a commercial full B signal...

-OMW

 

[hipporadio]

As someone who's written about this mess from afar, let me stake some middle ground here.

As for whether Bill's "ClassX" gains - sure, why not? It won't be a huge deal, as I suspect even Bill realizes. As mentioned, none of the stations involved are in the same format.

Don't begrudge the ClassX folks and their self-promotion. It seems to be a "cool" station that appeals to a niche, and I don't think Bill is actually putting himself in the same universe as a commercial full B signal.

The middle ground is right on OMW, and that is what I was about to address in response to Clem’s post. He listened online for a couple hours on Friday night, and only liked “Bye Bye Love” (the Everly Bros?)... Great song—but it gives away Clem’s “era in music”—one that ClassX may view as auxiliary and not a focus. Clem, I respect your post, and agree with your critique (as a 50-yr-old), but ClassX seems to be oriented to a genre that IS NOT about expanding the library of the typical pop-oldies WGRR listener. Instead, ClassX seems to harken back to an era that launched the likes of WEBN (circa early 70s), and allowed nearby stations like 97.7 WOXR in Oxford to entertain and (at least) pay their bills while enjoying radio and presenting an alternative to their local listeners.

I listened to ClassX online this morning, and share Clem’s observation that they may have become “too wide” in their playlist. That, like every other post here, is but a personal opinion. But to criticize a demure non-com for being self-absorbed and strictly dependent on the anti-corporate mantra is a stretch. BTW, that anti-corporate presentation has worked very well in Indy for Class A Rocker 101.9 WKLU (recently top-five 25-54) with a heavy perceptual identity as the “anti-corporate station” in that market. Such was illuminated further in the recent Mercury Research perception survey on radio presented to a standing room only crowd at the last NAB—the non-conforming "Greg” persona is considerable in today’s culture--and "radio" had better take note.

Bill is obviously no stranger to Cincy radio... I understand that he may have had a past that attracts rebuke from "the establishment". That DOES NOT dismiss his contemporary presence and contribution. Personally, I’m very happy that folks like Bill are populating the band below 92.1--and I’m surprised that the corporates haven’t tried to seize that 4mhz of spectrum...YET. As you pointed out, Bill realizes the current Cincy radio merry-go-round is no huge deal... So WHY waste space on a board--burning brain cells over the banter of his volunteer DJs or those who choose to post here and plug 88.9. I agree OMM, Bill could care less about the “Class B universe”... THANK GOODNESS for small media favors!

 

[keys2]

What hobbyists don't get is the idea because they, and by extension, "everyone" is "sick of the same songs over and over again", the solution, and the way to success uis to play super-large, super-unfamiliar playlists, really thinking that audiences will sit through hours and hours of stuff theyu don't know and don't like, just waituing for the one cut they liked from an album they bought 35 years ago. In the real world, it doesn't happen.

Believe it or not some middle-aged and older people like me still enjoy being exposed to new and/or old unfamiliar music or forgotten classics. What I can't stand is sitting through hours and hours of stuff that I've heard ten-thousand times....like the Eagles, Bob Seeger, Billy Joel....waiting for something more interesting and not as burned out. I acknowledge that I'm in the minority and that is why I have to settle for satellite radio, and the little guy like ClassX who, again, is not competing in the corporate arena.

 

[microbob]

How many times does 925 play Against the Wind by BOB Segar? At least it's not the same thing on 88.9. I like different, but thats just me I guess.

 

[Clemwriter]

“Bye Bye Love” (the Everly Bros?)... Great song—but it gives away Clem’s “era in music”—

The Everly who? "Bye Bye Love" is from The Cars first album.

I understand that he may have had a past that attracts rebuke from "the establishment".

Me. Cincinnati media establishment? The laughter from the long timers in this room is deafening.

So WHY waste space on a board--burning brain cells over the banter of his volunteer DJs...

Who wrote this?

"Finally, the “all-round atrocious” award goes to 680 WCTT Corbin, KY...“The Great 68” is literally a fifty-year-wide “train wreck” of homemade reel-to-reel automated 40s/50 standards, 60s/70s MOR and pop, and even an 80s pop-rocker thrown in when the owner wasn’t looking."

I guess it's okay to burn a few brain cells over bad radio from the little guys as long as they're on the commercial side of the dial. But since you're the arbiter of what we can and cannot critique, I just want to be sure...commercial little guys are free game...non commercial little guys aren't.

 

[hipporadio]

“Bye Bye Love” (the Everly Bros?)... Great song—but it gives away Clem’s “era in music”—

The Everly who? "Bye Bye Love" is from The Cars first album.

I understand that he may have had a past that attracts rebuke from "the establishment".

Me. Cincinnati media establishment? The laughter from the long timers in this room is deafening.

So WHY waste space on a board--burning brain cells over the banter of his volunteer DJs...

Who wrote this?

"Finally, the “all-round atrocious” award goes to 680 WCTT Corbin, KY...“The Great 68” is literally a fifty-year-wide “train wreck” of homemade reel-to-reel automated 40s/50 standards, 60s/70s MOR and pop, and even an 80s pop-rocker thrown in when the owner wasn’t looking."

I guess it's okay to burn a few brain cells over bad radio from the little guys as long as they're on the commercial side of the dial. But since you're the arbiter of what we can and cannot critique, I just want to be sure...commercial little guys are free game...non commercial little guys aren't.

I guess I'm wasting my time and courtesy giving you the credit you are due for the good points you have made in this discussion, Clem!

I’m the arbiter of NOTHING here--nor do I try to be! Just like you (but with a bit more politeness)--I have fairly stated an opinion. You may cruise the threads looking for my matter to import here as you wish. I’m flattered that you’ve taken to shop my posts as far as the PHILADELPHIA BOARD on a totally different topic than the one you’ve decided to “cross quote” on here.

BTW... I was Emailed that thread and asked (humorously) to toss in my two cents (maybe I have industry experience on an issue that you are unaware of because you sought to confront me before you invested in knowing me). NOBODY was considering Clem's need to bluster a point on a different board when I contributed it. You quoted VERY LITTLE of that post--which was mainly directed at TECHNICAL issues such as "audio quality"--choosing instead to "cherry pick" only to advantage your position... LOW MOVE, Clem! I never typed a “Hey Cincy—see my Philly post and laugh about small market radio” here in THIS forum. You’ve obviously decided to do it for me... Speaking of burning brain cells and expending time...

 

[Clemwriter]

I never typed a “Hey Cincy—see my Philly post and laugh about small market radio” here in THIS forum. You’ve obviously decided to do it for me... Speaking of burning brain cells and expending time...

Complain to the owner of the chat room. That Philly thread is clearly advertised on their home page. The unctuousness of your "if you take a swing at someone half your size—you’re not a man” defense of the Miracle is clearly evident.

 

[DJJack1]

Well heck what does a guy have to do??? Here I am, on ClassX three hours a day Monday through Friday -- in afternoon drive no less -- and it's our Friday night DJ who is the first to get insulted on here????? NO FAIR!!!!

FWIW, I just wanted to acknowledge some criticism posted on here that I think had some validity....kinda. I don't think our playlist is "too wide" but I *do* think our problem is that we're not live during the work day, so there is nobody on the air to tell you what song you just heard and who sang it. I try to make sure I do that every afternoon, but if I drop the ball once in a while, I hope someone calls me on the phone and makes me fix it. Better yet..I hope they call and volunteer to do a shift or two so we can get LIVE and LOCAL voices on the air. Automation sucks!

Oh and by the way....our Friday night DJ is a hella cool guy. Passionate, knowledgeable about the music, and excited to be there....it's cool to chat with him.

 

[hipporadio]

I never typed a “Hey Cincy—see my Philly post and laugh about small market radio” here in THIS forum. You’ve obviously decided to do it for me... Speaking of burning brain cells and expending time...

Complain to the owner of the chat room. That Philly thread is clearly advertised on their home page. The unctuousness of your "if you take a swing at someone half your size—you’re not a man” defense of the Miracle is clearly evident.

"Complain to the owner" : ... I'll bet you used that one often in your management days--right? What you very selectively chose NOT to “import” from the Philly Forum (besides three-quarters of my comments after you finished editing) was the post that preceded mine and served to stage the discussion. It has a direct bearing on the assumption you cleverly transposed here--that somehow I’m a guy that would wag a finger at those big bad 50kw corporate stations while drubbing some poor little coalfield AM station in eastern Kentucky.

Now, allow me to cross-quote what you chose not to from another contributor in the Philly “Worst Radio” discussion in an effort to fill in the obvious blanks that you have chosen to create...

Have any of you driven through West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, southwestern Virginia, or western North Carolina? Talk about bad radio.....
A lot of the programming is horrendously bad on some of the local stations down there. And technically, some of them sound like they are just barely on the air. (The FCC could probably make a small fortune on fines in some of these places). This area is by far where I've heard some of the worst radio ever.
BUT...on the same token....some of these stations actually try to serve their communities with the meager resources they have. That doesn't relieve them, however, from not following even the most basic rules of programming. And, if doesn't free them from at least maintaing some sort of minimum technical standards.

“Unctuousness”? ...No way, Clem ClassX... Good luck, and keep getting better!