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The "Athens Of America" ;-( With No Classical Music Station ?

Both the Maine network and the Vermont classical station are programmed largely via satellite from WCRB.

Right now, Boston actually has *four* full-time classical stations: WCRB(FM), WCRB-HD2, WTKK-HD2, and WGBH-HD2. Aside from those, there's eight hours of classical a day on WHRB(FM).

My advice: get an HD Radio and tune to WGBH-HD2.
 
> How about AM radio??
>
> If Alex Langer, who has regained conrtol of WBIX-1060, is
> looking for a new format, he should consider classical
> music.
>
> It's true that it no longer would have the sound quality of
> FM stereo, but he could run it very inexpensively as an
> automated/voicetracked operation, and possibly hire away a
> couple of salespersons from WCRB-102.5 who can tell their
> former station's advertisers that there's a new home for
> classical music on Boston-area radio.

Classical was run in Denver (1280 KVOD) and Miami (1360 WKAT) for some time after the demise of each city's existing classical outlet; it's currently being run in Hartford on 1290 WTMI.

There is some potential for the format to work there; but you are losing the group that would listen to the station for waiting room music, along with office types as well. Would you listen to a fuzzy AM station playing grand music in your office? In that same light, the AM classical stations are far from the best signals in their markets, so downtown Boston listening would be at stake as well.

Here's two possible scenarios that could occur if Greater plans to keep the WCRB format on the air in Boston and under their control (and I know I've been compared to Joseph Gallant for my speculation in the past, but it's just some food for thought, take it or leave it.)

1. While GM must sell an FM, they can still own several AMs. It's clear that Peter Smyth wants to preserve the classical format in Boston, and he'll spend money to do it. For the $10m that GM would spend LMAing WERS for a year, they could buy WBIX outright and throw the format there.

2. Greater Media is clearly very optimistic about HD Radio. GM also has received bad press in the past for canning classical in Philly and Detroit. By moving the WCRB airstaff to 96.9 HD-2, and syndicating the format to 105.1 HD-2 in Detroit and 95.7 HD-2 in Philadelphia, they could not only preserve the format in Boston but also spread the format to these two cities and show their commitment to HD Radio multicasting.

Certainly the station would run in the red until the required 2 years of commercial-free HD2 broadcasting end, but they would lose far less than the $10m per year that the WERS LMA would entail.
 
Re: The

> Both the Maine network and the Vermont classical station are
> programmed largely via satellite from WCRB.

I figure that's probably why the W-Bach network is still on the air in Maine. Nassau seems to be doing a lot of cost cutting in their Northern New England clusters lately, and as the network is mostly lousy signals (WBQW 106.3) and powerful signals that cover low-population areas (106.9 WBQX), they probably don't want to mess with it.

> Right now, Boston actually has *four* full-time classical
> stations: WCRB(FM), WCRB-HD2, WTKK-HD2, and WGBH-HD2. Aside
> from those, there's eight hours of classical a day on
> WHRB(FM).
>
> My advice: get an HD Radio and tune to WGBH-HD2.

Yeah, it's a bit of a classical overload on the HD right now. Although I guess the concentration is a bit lower since WROR-HD2 changed format a few days ago from it's five-song loop of Barry White and Beatles to a new, all-70's playlist.

WGBH-HD2 seems to have the variety that WCRB has been mocked for lacking. Unfortunately, they don't give the titles of the pieces that they play, which WCRB is doing a great job with (although the GM song data is occasionally down, the WCRB data is up every time I check).

I was hoping that WGBH would do jazz on their HD2, but perhaps they'll do that if they add HD3.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by JustinT on 04/10/06 12:49 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: The "Athens Of America" (without a decent homicide squad!)

> What does it say about Boston - the alleged center of
> culture for the North East not to have the presence of a
> Classical Music station on its radio dial.
>
What does it say that You are letting a Station that plays no vocal music,no classical music from India or China define culture.
> Sure, WGBH-FM does it part-time but does that really
> qualify?
>
Yes combined with WHRB's 1-10PM offerings I think it does and 30000000 times better than WCRB(less than a month away for the Mozart orgy to start!)

>
> Are there no "angels' out there who will step up to the
> "baton" and keep a commerical classical format alive in
> Boston?
>
The Rev. could have made his will a lot more hardcore if he wanted to,instead of just a hope or a wish to keep WCRB classical.If he didn't beleive in the long term viability of this station why should anyone else?
Even the Wave(AM from R.I. I forgot the calls)played some vocal music once in a while.WCRB is not a good station and I don't mourn its loss.
 
A Noteworthy Event

Remember the Pizza King, Mike Valerio, [not to be confused with Abe Froman, the sausage king of Chicago] who bought the old WEEI 590 so that he could spout his right wing propaganda, well there has to be someone out there willing to do the same for old Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart.
Now, that would be a 'noteworthy' event.

> > What does it say about Boston - the alleged center of
> > culture for the North East not to have the presence of a
> > Classical Music station on its radio dial.
> >
> > Sure, WGBH-FM does it part-time but does that really
> > qualify?
> >
> > If WCRB goes off the air it will be another glaring
> example
> > of the coarsening of American culture. How many
> > indistinguishable rap, rock and hip hop formats does this
> > city need?
> >
> > At the turn of the last century cities could rely on the
> > likes of Carneige and others to fund the arts and cultural
>
> > centers but those days seem to be gone. Multi-millionaires
>
> > like Romney, Gabrelli and Mihos would rather spend their
> > fortunes on ephermeral self indulging romps of self
> > engrandizing than make a financial commitment to keep the
> > discriminating arts alive and functioning such as a
> > classical music station.
> >
> > Are there no "angels' out there who will step up to the
> > "baton" and keep a commerical classical format alive in
> > Boston?
> >
> Well, politics aside, Paul, it's inconceivable that any
> visitor to Boston could not find a dedicated classical FM
> station. The home of the BSO, The Boston Pops...my home, the
> Rockport Chamber music festival, Tanglewood etc. and yet no
> full-time FM classical venue? Shameful.(come on
> corporations, you're write-off is waiting). It really is
> like pizza without cheese, or Fenway Park without
> personality.
>
 
Sorry, but the BIX signal is crap unless you live in Ashland.


> > How about AM radio??
> >
> > If Alex Langer, who has regained conrtol of WBIX-1060, is
> > looking for a new format, he should consider classical
> > music.
> >
> > It's true that it no longer would have the sound quality
> of
> > FM stereo, but he could run it very inexpensively as an
> > automated/voicetracked operation, and possibly hire away a
>
> > couple of salespersons from WCRB-102.5 who can tell their
> > former station's advertisers that there's a new home for
> > classical music on Boston-area radio.
>
>
> I don't think that with the WBIX fidelity and signal that it
> could attract enough of the former WCRB audience to make
> enough ad revenue to fly.
>
> Nowadays I think a large portion of the classical audience
> would more likely get satellite radio, get receivers for HD2
> channels, tune to WGBH or WHRB when airing classical, and
> listen to their own CD's and perhaps even their iPods.
>
> In order for an AM classical station to fly here, wideband
> analog C-Quam AM stereo would have had to have been fully
> developed and such receivers would have to be available, and
> in order to deliver the wideband AM stereo without static
> and noise for classical music, it would have to be on a
> better signal than WBIX in the city without a powerful third
> adjacent (WBZ) and another local third adjacent (WILD),
> since selectivity goes out the window when listening to AM
> in wideband.
>
> WBIX's signal strength is adequate for low-fi, compressed
> talk radio even within the city, but not for classical music
> with it's dynamic range and quiet passages. The background
> noise threshold would appear much more intrusive than with
> talk.
>
> At night, with WBIX's weakened night signal and a 10k
> heterodyne from 1050 in NYC, classical wouldn't cut it
> outside of a few nearby metro-west towns.
>
> Here in Somerville in the daytime, the classical pieces
> occasionally played on the 740 AM WJIB day signal sound
> excellent on my wideband C-Quam AM stereo just a few miles
> from their Fresh Pond transmitter, with no local or powerful
> adjacents more than five steps away on the dial. But, I'm
> probably one of only a handful of people in WJIB's listening
> area with receivers that can hear it that way.
>
 
> I remember when South Florida lost its classical music
> station, the logic was that classical radio couldnt' attract
> advertisers like Burger King and Pepsi.
>
> Well Duh!But there still are advertisers that want to reach
> the classical audience, and the audience is upscale. And
> it's not even a small audience as we can see looking at the
> ratings. ou
>
> Losing classical radio in Boston is a short sited mistake.
>

It's not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact, Classical stations don't make money, otherwise, this would not be an issue. You can argue day and night about how there's money to be made, but it's the same argument about Adult Standards and Traditional Oldies. Classical stations can't turn a profit, so commerical companies won't touch them. They are powerpigs, essentially. Imagine if you were the GM of Boston Greater Media, and you had 6 stations, and here's this dog that is losing money, what would you do? Sorry, Classical gets the ax.

That said, Boston should have a classical radio station. But please, don't force a commercial radio station to do it. That's like forcing Chevy to make the Chevette, just becuase we think it's a good idea.
 
Re: Non white men

> > "The real male-targetting stations are the talk stations,
> > the sports outlets, WZLX, WBCN, WAAF and WFNX"
> >
> > According to this logic, which I've seen before, non-white
>
> > men don't listen to the radio!
>
> Considering that the Boston market is about 6% Hispanic and
> 6% African American, I'm covering the stereotypical
> preferences of 88% of men in the market.
>
That being said, I have to disagree. Young Caucasian men are not listening to rock. That's why WBCN's numbers are sinking. And WFNX? That's a female station if there ever was one.

The young men like hip hop. I don't know why! I think it's mostly crap. But as someone else said in this forum, hip hop today is what rock was to a different generation.
 
That's the problem just axe anyone at any of the money making formats.
By the way, how much money is enough money? You could automate 99% of a classical music station and reduce costs. It is "personality driven" only by the personality of the composers not the air jockeys. Love Laura Carlo, but if the choice is Laura Carlo or no classical music the answer is too simple.


> > I remember when South Florida lost its classical music
> > station, the logic was that classical radio couldnt'
> attract
> > advertisers like Burger King and Pepsi.
> >
> > Well Duh!But there still are advertisers that want to
> reach
> > the classical audience, and the audience is upscale. And
> > it's not even a small audience as we can see looking at
> the
> > ratings. ou
> >
> > Losing classical radio in Boston is a short sited mistake.
>
> >
>
> It's not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact,
> Classical stations don't make money, otherwise, this would
> not be an issue. You can argue day and night about how
> there's money to be made, but it's the same argument about
> Adult Standards and Traditional Oldies. Classical stations
> can't turn a profit, so commerical companies won't touch
> them. They are powerpigs, essentially. Imagine if you were
> the GM of Boston Greater Media, and you had 6 stations, and
> here's this dog that is losing money, what would you do?
> Sorry, Classical gets the ax.
>
> That said, Boston should have a classical radio station. But
> please, don't force a commercial radio station to do it.
> That's like forcing Chevy to make the Chevette, just becuase
> we think it's a good idea.
>
 
Mozart Was Black !

According to some Black historians Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was Black.
No kidding, not a racist remark by this poster. Check it out.

> > > "The real male-targetting stations are the talk
> stations,
> > > the sports outlets, WZLX, WBCN, WAAF and WFNX"
> > >
> > > According to this logic, which I've seen before,
> non-white
> >
> > > men don't listen to the radio!
> >
> > Considering that the Boston market is about 6% Hispanic
> and
> > 6% African American, I'm covering the stereotypical
> > preferences of 88% of men in the market.
> >
> That being said, I have to disagree. Young Caucasian men are
> not listening to rock. That's why WBCN's numbers are
> sinking. And WFNX? That's a female station if there ever
> was one.
>
> The young men like hip hop. I don't know why! I think it's
> mostly crap. But as someone else said in this forum, hip
> hop today is what rock was to a different generation.
>
 
Re: The "Athens Of America" (without a decent homicide squad!)

WCRB is not a good station and I don't mourn its loss.


It was a fine "gateway" station to higher-class music for the masses.

You won't mourn its loss? Stop it.
 
> It's not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact,
> Classical stations don't make money.

Not exactly true in the case of WCRB. More likely it didn't make AS MUCH money as it could.

WCRB had no mortgage, and they billed about 8 mil a year. I can't believe that it cost them more than four mil a year to operate it. 4 mil pre-tax profit. A mil or so in taxes. 2 1/2 to 3 mil a year net profit. Not exactly a ticket to the poorhouse!

But when you can cash her out at 70 mil or whatever they got...hey....its GREED, GREED, GREED pure and simple. I am sure that the BSO could disband and sell off all of their holdings for lots of dough. The Christian Science Monitor could kill the paper and sell the headquarters building for like a billion dollars, but they don't. They make money. Enough money. They don't have to make the MAXIMUM amount of money humanly possible while completely disregarding the consequences of their action.
 
> But when you can cash her out at 70 mil or whatever they
> got...hey....its GREED, GREED, GREED pure and simple.

By the way, do you think the Ted Jones family members will take a relatively small percetage of the truckload of money they got for selling WCRB and buy a smaller station like 104.9 on the North Shore or something and keep WCRB alive? Maybe with the reduced signal they would only be able to get some of their old sponsors, so maybe they would only net a few hundred grand after expenses. The heirs could split the money and each buy a new car every year to drive to the bank to visit
the several million that they STILL would have left over.

In Cleveland, WCLV (the commercial Classical music station) cashed out for a big chunk of change, but the owners immediately bought a suburban FM Class A for a small portion of their profits, switched frequencies and didn't miss a beat. They have class. What's with the Ted Jones family?
 
Re: Mozart Was Black !

> According to some Black historians Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
> was Black.
> No kidding, not a racist remark by this poster. Check it
> out.
>
> > > > "The real male-targetting stations are the talk
> > stations,
> > > > the sports outlets, WZLX, WBCN, WAAF and WFNX"
> > > >
> > > > According to this logic, which I've seen before,
> > non-white
> > >
> > > > men don't listen to the radio!
> > >
> > > Considering that the Boston market is about 6% Hispanic
> > and
> > > 6% African American, I'm covering the stereotypical
> > > preferences of 88% of men in the market.
> > >
> > That being said, I have to disagree. Young Caucasian men
> are
> > not listening to rock. That's why WBCN's numbers are
> > sinking. And WFNX? That's a female station if there ever
> > was one.
> >
> > The young men like hip hop. I don't know why! I think
> it's
> > mostly crap. But as someone else said in this forum, hip
> > hop today is what rock was to a different generation.
> >
>
What, according to the one drop rule?
 
> In Cleveland, WCLV (the commercial Classical music station)
> cashed out for a big chunk of change, but the owners
> immediately bought a suburban FM Class A for a small portion
> of their profits, switched frequencies and didn't miss a
> beat. They have class. What's with the Ted Jones family?

Actually, Christopher Jones of the Ted Jones family will be retaining both WCRI and WCNX, along with the World Classical Network. WCRI doesn't touch anywhere near Boston, but the family will still be invested with classical music in New England.
 
The case for intervening in the 102.5 situation

You're exactly right. Loosing WCRB is completely, utterly asinine. What a huge blow for Boston. Can you imagine Symphony Hall being torn down for a fast food outlet? This is the same thing here.

You know, being an architect, I find it interesting that we can, as a society, place legally-binding historical designations upon culturally-valuable buildings to prevent them from being irradicated by short term greed. If architecture is frozen music, and that can be preserved, why shouldn't we preserve our conduit for outstanding "liquid" music, fine arts radio? If we can prevent a building from being torn down, why can't we hold on to culturally-valuable radio?

Some may have the urge to reply to this post that radio is "of the moment" and that "there are larger audience unserved" etc. Here's why that doesn't hold up for this case: firstly, almost all other stations are playing "of the moment" music. WCRB is playing music that has withstood as much as three hundred years of time. This isn't a case of classic music having gone out of style--it's never out of style. And, of course, the ratings are there.

The argument about 102.5 format being "private property" is inherently false. These are public airwaves. If we can regulate the aesthetic content of buildings in Back Bay, their beauty transmitted to our eyes thru the public air by waves of light, then the Boston public should have control over the waves of sound that bring them the aesthetics of their culturally sustainable radio station.

The argument about 102.5 "not making as much money as it could" is unsound as well, when you consider how much one could make by lining the Charles River with high-rise condos...yet we don't allow it, for the common aesthetic good. We, as well as future generations, should all have an opportunity to enjoy Boston's beauty, and WCRB is as much an integral part of that as is the Esplanade on a Fourth of July night.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by promixcuous on 04/10/06 03:02 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> Boston will be just another backwater second class city
> without a WCRB or its like.

Oh, ye of little faith! ;-)

(You really think a classical music radio station is the thing that defines greatness in a city? I think Boston has a few other things going for it, to understate the case considerably.) ;-)

That said, the prospect of not saving classical music on FM in Boston does seem a bit sad.
 
Re: Non white men

> "The real male-targetting stations are the talk stations,
> the sports outlets, WZLX, WBCN, WAAF and WFNX"
>
> According to this logic, which I've seen before, non-white
> men don't listen to the radio!
>

Neither do geezers (I'm being facetious) over the age of 50!
 
Re: Mozart Was Black !

And I'm a Martian! ;-)

(Not to be closed-minded or anything; maybe I should look into that allegation of Mozart being black, just to be sure.)

> According to some Black historians Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
> was Black.
> No kidding, not a racist remark by this poster. Check it
> out.
>
> > > > "The real male-targetting stations are the talk
> > stations,
> > > > the sports outlets, WZLX, WBCN, WAAF and WFNX"
> > > >
> > > > According to this logic, which I've seen before,
> > non-white
> > >
> > > > men don't listen to the radio!
> > >
> > > Considering that the Boston market is about 6% Hispanic
> > and
> > > 6% African American, I'm covering the stereotypical
> > > preferences of 88% of men in the market.
> > >
> > That being said, I have to disagree. Young Caucasian men
> are
> > not listening to rock. That's why WBCN's numbers are
> > sinking. And WFNX? That's a female station if there ever
> > was one.
> >
> > The young men like hip hop. I don't know why! I think
> it's
> > mostly crap. But as someone else said in this forum, hip
> > hop today is what rock was to a different generation.
> >
>
 
> Both the Maine network and the Vermont classical station are
> programmed largely via satellite from WCRB.
>
> Right now, Boston actually has *four* full-time classical
> stations: WCRB(FM), WCRB-HD2, WTKK-HD2, and WGBH-HD2. Aside
> from those, there's eight hours of classical a day on
> WHRB(FM).
>
> My advice: get an HD Radio and tune to WGBH-HD2.
>

Not to sound predictable (oh, there you go again!) but Sirius satellite radio has three classical channels. ;-)
 
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