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The continued failure of HDRadio in San Diego
- Thread starter SDRadio
- Start date
A GM once told me if they shut down the main analog signal and went totally digital with their FM bandwidth they would be able to get nine HD channels on the air. I would love to see someone give this a try... especially to see the penetration of digital at full power.
PS-- The HD in HD Radio stands for Hybrid Digital. That's the way it's laid out in Ibiquity's FCC filings. It is not High Definition. Don't believe the hype.
PS-- The HD in HD Radio stands for Hybrid Digital. That's the way it's laid out in Ibiquity's FCC filings. It is not High Definition. Don't believe the hype.
fredcantu said:A GM once told me if they shut down the main analog signal and went totally digital with their FM bandwidth they would be able to get nine HD channels on the air.
Lots of stations with no listeners.
Until people buy these radios, you won't see ANYONE shutting down the main signal.
fredcantu said:A GM once told me if they shut down the main analog signal and went totally digital with their FM bandwidth they would be able to get nine HD channels on the air. I would love to see someone give this a try... especially to see the penetration of digital at full power.
PS-- The HD in HD Radio stands for Hybrid Digital. That's the way it's laid out in Ibiquity's FCC filings. It is not High Definition. Don't believe the hype.
Maybe we should try this. How many people would have to be hired to program nine different formats for nine different stations? Hey, let's everyone do it so instead of some 8,000 FM stations we could have 72,000, all with different formats! Think of the voice tracking revenue alone!
RadeoEngineer said:How many people would have to be hired to program nine different formats for nine different stations?
You must be joking. I know a guy running ten different formats on Accuradio from his spare bedroom by himself. The question isn't how many people, but how many computers.
TheBigA said:RadeoEngineer said:How many people would have to be hired to program nine different formats for nine different stations?
You must be joking.
Of course I am.
Reasons why has HDTV succeeded where HD Radio is failing:
Money, of course! Look at the winners list that comes with the development of HDTV
1, The Feds received some very valuable old TV channel real estate to auction. That got their attention big time, and made it worthwhile to force a wholesale conversion on the public. The political carrots that make this conversion possible are all the winning constituencies in 2 - 6.
2. The Cell Phone providers got some very valuable bandwidth with which to offer (make money from) advanced data services. - and they continue to expand their service offerings and make even more money (and pay even more taxes).
3. The Cell Phone manufacturers get to repeatedly sell a whole new generations of smart phones - make more money, and those sales ultimately generate even more tax revenue.
4. The TV set manufacturers get to replace every TV set in North America - which helped spur much of the first world, around the world, to do the same thing - and the sale of those new TV's creates additional new tax revenue.
5. The Television production equipment all gets replaced, all new programming is created. More new wealth created - and of course, more taxes.
6. The public gets notably enhanced video and audio quality and technology. Unfortunately the same can't be said for show quality.
7. Related digital spinoffs for delivery methods - cable, satellite, etc., all generate more revenue.
8. And who could do otherwise? There is no viable alternative high quality TV experience to HDTV.
Now, let's name the winner's list for HD Radio
1. No, the Feds get bupkis.
2. No, no big winners in other industries.
3. No, no big winners in other industries.
4. Finally, here's a potential winner. Yet they really don't seem to care. Too much risk? Too little return? Unreasonable licensing costs (via chipsets)? Chicken and Egg? Since no one is forced to upgrade to HD Radio, how big is the market really?
5. Ibiquity gets some money. Also, some additional programming could be created, though it doesn't seem too likely at this point.
6. The public gets seemingly minor enhancements to audio quality and/or additional programming choices. But it's nothing they can't get, often more advantageously, via other technologies.
7. No advantages to spinoff industries.
8. There are very good and completely viable, if not better, alternatives to HD Radio.
Money, of course! Look at the winners list that comes with the development of HDTV
1, The Feds received some very valuable old TV channel real estate to auction. That got their attention big time, and made it worthwhile to force a wholesale conversion on the public. The political carrots that make this conversion possible are all the winning constituencies in 2 - 6.
2. The Cell Phone providers got some very valuable bandwidth with which to offer (make money from) advanced data services. - and they continue to expand their service offerings and make even more money (and pay even more taxes).
3. The Cell Phone manufacturers get to repeatedly sell a whole new generations of smart phones - make more money, and those sales ultimately generate even more tax revenue.
4. The TV set manufacturers get to replace every TV set in North America - which helped spur much of the first world, around the world, to do the same thing - and the sale of those new TV's creates additional new tax revenue.
5. The Television production equipment all gets replaced, all new programming is created. More new wealth created - and of course, more taxes.
6. The public gets notably enhanced video and audio quality and technology. Unfortunately the same can't be said for show quality.
7. Related digital spinoffs for delivery methods - cable, satellite, etc., all generate more revenue.
8. And who could do otherwise? There is no viable alternative high quality TV experience to HDTV.
Now, let's name the winner's list for HD Radio
1. No, the Feds get bupkis.
2. No, no big winners in other industries.
3. No, no big winners in other industries.
4. Finally, here's a potential winner. Yet they really don't seem to care. Too much risk? Too little return? Unreasonable licensing costs (via chipsets)? Chicken and Egg? Since no one is forced to upgrade to HD Radio, how big is the market really?
5. Ibiquity gets some money. Also, some additional programming could be created, though it doesn't seem too likely at this point.
6. The public gets seemingly minor enhancements to audio quality and/or additional programming choices. But it's nothing they can't get, often more advantageously, via other technologies.
7. No advantages to spinoff industries.
8. There are very good and completely viable, if not better, alternatives to HD Radio.
eganders said:Reasons why has HDTV succeeded where HD Radio is failing:
Oh come on. The day I got my HDTV was as seminal as the day I got my first CD player.
I simply CAN'T watch standard TV any more. Especially on the flat screen. The flat screen was made for HDTV.
The fact that all this great hardware was created to enhanse my HDTV experience is why it succeeded.
In HD Radio, it took 6 years for them to make a portable. It's still not standard in cars. And all they focus on are table radios. Even my grandmother doesn't own a table radio. No one owns table radios. But for years, it was the only way to get HD Radio. No wonder the thing was a flop. You're comparing raw sex vs. wet noodles.
TheBigA said:eganders said:Reasons why has HDTV succeeded where HD Radio is failing:
You're comparing raw sex vs. wet noodles.
Wow! I like that! I really, really like that! Brilliant! Seriously!
RadeoEngineer said:Wow! I like that! I really, really like that! Brilliant! Seriously!
Thanks. I was chatting with a TV buddy of mine tonight, and we concluded that this same challenge faces all of radio.
HDTV combined hardware and programming for an unbeatable combination. I will NOT go back to tube TV or 480p SD again.
Radio needs some kind of device that creates that same passion. HD radio is not it. But that's no reason to give up.
fredcantu said:PS-- The HD in HD Radio stands for Hybrid Digital. That's the way it's laid out in Ibiquity's FCC filings. It is not High Definition. Don't believe the hype.
No, it doesn't. HD Radio doesn't mean anything. It's simply a brand. Hybrid digital simply means the station is telling the FCC it's running both an analog and a digital stream. If you check the link I'm supplying, read the answer to the last question.
http://www.hdradio.com/faq.php
Kent said:fredcantu said:PS-- The HD in HD Radio stands for Hybrid Digital. That's the way it's laid out in Ibiquity's FCC filings. It is not High Definition. Don't believe the hype.
No, it doesn't. HD Radio doesn't mean anything. It's simply a brand. Hybrid digital simply means the station is telling the FCC it's running both an analog and a digital stream. If you check the link I'm supplying, read the answer to the last question.
http://www.hdradio.com/faq.php
If you want to believe that web site that's your choice, but HD was established as Hybrid Digital by iBiquity when the objections to "CD Quality on FM and FM quality on AM" was one of their previous claims. Those of us that understand bit rates and sampling were stating the iBiquity system couldn't even come close to supporting those claims. If it were simply a brand from iBiquity, it would make more sense for it to be called "iD" or "iBD" or something else of the sort. The use of the term "HD" is meant to do nothing less than confuse the consumer into associating "HD" with "High Definition" as in TV, which in the case of iBiquity "HD" it most definitely is not.
RadeoEngineer said:The use of the term "HD" is meant to do nothing less than confuse the consumer into associating "HD" with "High Definition" as in TV, which in the case of iBiquity "HD" it most definitely is not.
Wikipedia says "The FM hybrid digital/analog mode offers four options which can carry approximately 100, 112, 125, or 150 kbit/s of lossy data depending upon the station manager's power budget and/or desired range of signal."
What is the most commonly used bit rate? Wikipedia says iBiquity calls 100 kbit/s "CD Quality," while actual music CD's have a 1411.2 kbit/s, which is a slight difference.
KBRT was low power Saturday for a while. And now, their lone lower HD sideband has been reduced in strength. Although the carrier is TWICE the
level of KNX, the HD level is now matching KNX's HD signal. The on-carrier digital noise is now reduced considerably, making listening less of an
ordeal. KFI's HD level is even lower than KNX/KBRT.
And why does Disney think pre-teens and older will be listening to AM HD? 1110, 1290, and Phoenix 1580 must think these kids will somehow have
access to a $400 Polk to listen to Radio Disney??
And Phoenix- the poor souls there have a literal radio "fence" on both AM and FM- the digital sideband carriers make it real hard to
listen to out-of-market, weaker stations....
Big 121
level of KNX, the HD level is now matching KNX's HD signal. The on-carrier digital noise is now reduced considerably, making listening less of an
ordeal. KFI's HD level is even lower than KNX/KBRT.
And why does Disney think pre-teens and older will be listening to AM HD? 1110, 1290, and Phoenix 1580 must think these kids will somehow have
access to a $400 Polk to listen to Radio Disney??
And Phoenix- the poor souls there have a literal radio "fence" on both AM and FM- the digital sideband carriers make it real hard to
listen to out-of-market, weaker stations....
Big 121
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