The Declining state of radio and your opinion why...

[SirRoxalot]

Let me see if I can put this succinctly, in terms you can understand:

You don't have to be a unique talent to deliver unique information.

You can automate some formats because nobody expects anything more than music. We're already seeing those formats being co-opted by satellite and on-line. If local broadcasting is going to survive, they'll have to offer more than that. That doesn't mean that you can automate all formats, or that music on radio is dead. More than 90% of the audience still listens to radio because it's EASY, and provides something more than a jukebox.

"Talent gets hired for its talent, not its musical knowledge." Maybe morning show talent - because THEY DON'T PLAY MUSIC ANYWAY. BTW, the number of programmers who pull an airshift these days is probably higher than it's ever been, if you count voice tracking. And they program multiple stations to boot.

 

[TheBigA]

You don't have to be a unique talent to deliver unique information.

Yes I know, but there's no such thing as "unique information" any more. Radio lost its exclusive here a long time ago. So there's no need to act like the weather is unique information. It's not. It's the weather. You don't even have to be a licensed meteorologist to provide it any more.

If local broadcasting is going to survive, they'll have to offer more than that.

And that's where unique talent comes in. But every market doesn't have unique talent. So you pipe in unique talent from a market where it exists, and fill in the local information from a board op. Elementary.

BTW, the number of programmers who pull an airshift these days is probably higher than it's ever been, if you count voice tracking. And they program multiple stations to boot.

Yes and I believe the airshift is a total waste of their time and talent. But some owners feel live & local ANYTHING is more important than real talent. I disagree. Not everyone is replacing live and local talent. But in my view, the quality of what remains isn’t award winning, and doesn’t really provide unique quality entertainment. The public misses out on better talent, because the GM wants to keep all the revenue to himself.

But I have no problem with a programmer running multiple stations IF he has specialist resources to draw on, and typically they do.

 

[heydaybegone]

I'm sure that I'm not the only person that cringes when somebody says "the EEEEVANGOLA exit from the Thruway". Mispronunciations are the tip of that iceberg.

Um, no you're not alone!! I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I thought it was a new place added to the map I didn't know about. Bad, bad, bad....but that's what ya get....and there are several more examples where the "non-locals" have no clue on pronounctication!! ;D Cringing remains with me after all these years.

HDBG

 

[SirRoxalot]

Small problem. Talent that's "unique" in one market is "uninteresting" in another. Even Stern didn't do well in a lot of markets. He simple did "well enough" to be cheaper than a morning show for also-ran stations that were either unable to compete for reasons like poor signal or management decision. And a lot of stations had a hard time recovering because he left a vaccuum when he left terrestrial radio.

That's another flaw in your scenario. If somebody's that good, do they really need radio? Is Clear Channel really interested in radio, or are they using it to establish their iHeart radio on-line content? I've heard from people who were in a position to know that Clear Channel sees the radio business as a short-term means of exposing an audience to its on-line content. Too bad nobody's figured out how to really make money with on-line streaming. If it does become viable, why wouldn't talent simply finish out the contract, and go direct to the consumer? Why settle for a piece of the pie when you can have a much larger slice?

Since when do GMs get to keep revenue? The money goes to corporate. Their taste is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. More and more, GMs are expected to do their jobs of keeping things running and legal, while handling an ever-increasing share of sales management. The compensation they receive is no better than it was a decade ago, and in most cases is lower than it was 5 years ago.

But, go ahead and pipe in your "better" talent. Fortunately, there are companies out there who believe that radio is local, and they're the ones surviving the recession best. The people following your plan - namely Clear Channel and increasingly Cumulus - are doing so out of financial desperation, not because it's better radio. Citadel Buffalo went in that direction, and billing dropped from first to third. We'll see how the "Cumulus System" fares once the get it fully implemented.

 

[TheBigA]

Small problem. Talent that's "unique" in one market is "uninteresting" in another.

So then you try someone else. The point is the pool of unique talent is larger when you look beyond who's cheap and convenient, and the big companies have a lot of internal choices each of which are better than hiring some local 22 year old kid who brings nothing to the table except that he's local. But Rush was a game-changer for AM. Stern was a huge success in most places like Philly and LA. Same with Imus. Just because Stern didn’t work in Buffalo is no reason to throw out the whole concept.

If somebody's that good, do they really need radio? Is Clear Channel really interested in radio, or are they using it to establish their iHeart radio on-line content?

Those are two questions. Jay Thomas was really good, and he went on to a TV career. But he never had the option to grow beyond LA radio. Dick Clark did, and he always kept a hand in radio, even if it was syndication. We need to give good talent the same opportunities to grow their audience and their income, or they’ll leave. As for IHeartRadio, you always say radio is in the content business. If that’s true, then the platform doesn’t matter.

If it does become viable, why wouldn't talent simply finish out the contract, and go direct to the consumer? Why settle for a piece of the pie when you can have a much larger slice?

Some do. Adam Carolla says he’s turning down OTA jobs because his podcast is too profitable. And he was a flop OTA. Then again the audience has lots of options too. None of this is justification to put untalented people on the air just because they’re local. They have no other options because they have no talent and the audience suffers.

Since when do GMs get to keep revenue? The money goes to corporate.

Depends on the station, but their bonus is based on their revenue. When they dip into syndication, they have to either pay cash or give up inventory, which affects their revenue. For some, local VT allows them to keep all their inventory for sale. And it’s less work than piecing together outside talent with a custom music mix. But it also depends on the competition.

Fortunately, there are companies out there who believe that radio is local, and they're the ones surviving the recession best. The people following your plan - namely Clear Channel and increasingly Cumulus - are doing so out of financial desperation, not because it's better radio.

Or both. Clearly a lot of on-air talent sucks. They should not be on the air. The station is better off with nothing. The goal is to give the audience choices, and one way to do that is access better quality talent from within the company, and reward that talent for doing better work. What’s wrong with rewarding good talent? It sounds like you're afraid that it might succeed.

 

[cee]

Clearly a lot of on-air talent sucks.

In Buffalo and Rochester? I think most of the talent I hear in both markets is good. Sometimes I hear people who talk too much(ego issues?), but overall good. The stations I find uninteresting are the ones that VT too much. Like in Rochester: CC stations. Boring. Got a smartphone? Might as well tune in to Pandora. If you're gonna listen to a jukebox, might as well tailor make it to your own tastes. Some day, even I may own a smartphone-type thing and I won't be listening to CC's boring segue serenades.

 

[TheBigA]

The stations I find uninteresting are the ones that VT too much. Like in Rochester: CC stations. Boring.

I think the goal of this plan is to come up with something that's better than VT. Otherwise, local VT is a better option for a station.

We hear a lot of talk about improving "what's between the songs." As you said, radio needs to be more than a jukebox. But most local talent simply doesn't have the ability nor the resources to deliver unique content that the audience would want. By that, I'm talking about humor that doesn't come from a prep service or is self-serving. Interviews with major celebrities who might not be available in every local market. When you look outside your local market, you discover that there are on-air personalities that bring something original to the table. And I'm not talking about replacing everybody. This is not a one-size-fits-all solution. But clearly radio could use an infusion of new excitement and new talent.

 

[SirRoxalot]

There's a big problem. You get what you pay for, and radio's not willing to pay for talent. There are fewer and fewer people in the business because guys who are getting cut loose - and there are some VERY good people getting cut loose - are looking to get out of radio because the money sucks, the working conditions are untenable, and there are easier ways to make 40K a year with better bennies. There are very few new people coming into the business because there are so few places to start, and even fewer places to actually learn the craft.

There are very few prep-service readers around here. There's quite a bit of unique local talent, but that doesn't save your job anymore. For some companies, we've seen that ratings don't matter, and revenue doesn't matter when it comes to paying for talent. Too many corporate decisions are made based on corporate philosophy created by spreadsheet jockeys. Add programming philosophy that constantly reduces the space for local talent to operate, and you have a recipe for boring radio.

You've demonstrated repeatedly that you don't really know this market. Maybe if you actually heard what was going on here, your opinion would be of value. Instead, you simply shill for the consolidators. Then again, that's kind of like what you advocate - the same solutions format-wide across the nation.

 

[cee]

There's quite a bit of unique local talent, but that doesn't save your job anymore.

Exactly. And therein lies the problem. No appreciation for talent. As has been speculated by others on this board, I don't think the CC's and Cumulus' and other cheap outfits are in it for the long term. They've looking at new media delivery services for audio entertainment. Radio minus talent is nothing.

 

[Bob1370]

"They're looking at new media delivery services for audio entertainment."

Or they're looking at a quick flip of a lot of their properties after a quarter or two of high profits driven by cost cutting...while hoping the new buyers won't realize they're buying, not a thriving revenue-producer, but a gutted shell running on fumes. It could be a case of "Flip This Cluster."

 

[TheBigA]

There's a big problem. You get what you pay for, and radio's not willing to pay for talent.

BS. How much does a company some call Cheap Channel pay Rush Limbaugh? I know of more than a dozen CC morning teams that are in the 7 figure area. Radio pays for talent that bring in the money. Radio does not pay big money for board ops, and that's what a lot of talent is. People who call themselves talent need to take a long hard look at what they do for the money they make. They need to look at the contracts their agents write. They need to decide if they want to be employees or content providers or content partners with these radio companies. The world has changed. The changes we're seeing aren't just in radio. Those who were just let go will discover that unless they work for the government or go into education, they will have to change their approach to work.

I don't know a lot about Buffalo, but what I do know is it's a declining market in terms of population and potential revenue. And it's declining fast. That's going to be a game changer for people who work in advertising supported industries. I don't expect any growth for radio in Buffalo. Even non-commercial public radio is consolidating. That's not a good sign. If the big companies get out, I don't expect their replacements to spend a lot for staff in a declining market. The minute CBS sold out, a lot of people left. Things have been stable lately, but I don't expect it to last. There are lots of jobs in radio, but not if you want to stay in upstate New York.

 

[TheBigA]

Or they're looking at a quick flip of a lot of their properties after a quarter or two of high profits driven by cost cutting...

Wow...that sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Hey Bob: The 80s are over. So are the 90s. Nobody is "flipping properties" any more. Especially after just a quarter or two. If things were that easy, the economy wouldn't be in the crapper. It will take years of sustained growth before Clear Channel is sold to the right buyer, and not just another cannibal within radio.

Here's the reality: Radio stations are money pits. You're better off buying a boat or a pool. NO ONE is buying radio stations except other radio companies. That's not good. Radio needs a sugar daddy, like it used to have when electronics companies, insurance companies, or newspaper companies owned them. But none of those companies are buying radio now. And it's not because of the price. There are hundreds of radio stations available at fire sale prices with easy financing, and still no one is buying. And if you want to know why, go to a bank and ask. There are a lot of companies that are flush with cash, but not one of them is buying radio. Not Google. Not Appple. Even media companies like Disney, Fox, or Time Warner aren't even thinking about radio. Pandora has never made a profit, yet they just raised over a billion in an IPO. How is that possible? And they call themselves a radio company.

I keep reading about how "real broadcasters" will someday buy radio, and return things to the way they once were. Here's a fact: Bob Pittman is a real broadcaster. He ran radio stations in Chicago and New York. Then he started MTV. He knows BS when he hears it. You can't snow him about radio like you could John Hogan. Plus it's his money at risk. So this is a whole new ballgame. Bob understands that it's not the 60s any more. He knows because MTV is what killed the radio stars. And now he's back in radio, trying to reinvent it so it can compete in the 21st century. Bob knows content. REAL content. And he knows that simply having the #1 radio station isn't enough anymore. You have to win across multiple platforms. Even NPR knows that. Even WXXI knows that. But most people in radio still think it's the 1980s. They either have to change or go.

So yes, they're looking at new media delivery services for audio entertainment, because the days of OTA radio are coming to an end. But there's still a need for content, still a need for information, and still a need for talent. But it needs to be talent that translates across multiple platforms. If you're not ready to play in that game, then get out of the way, because there is a new generation that's ready.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Nobody's buying in looking for a big payday at this point. There's no money in flipping stations. The lenders are sitting on radio properties because they're stuck with them. They either have to take a bath selling the properties, or find somebody to operate the stations for them so they can recoup their investment from the profits. The Dickeys and others are telling the lenders that they can wring more short-term profits out of the stations than anybody else with their "synergies" and "software systems". Let's call it the "SOS" plan - Synergies, Operations, and Software. Take a bite. Some people like SOS. It certainly ain't haute cuisine.

The corporations who overpaid for broadcast properties are using them as a tool to drive people to on-line delivery. They'll be trying to sell bandwidth that they don't own back to the FCC, and they'll try to make sure that nobody else has the opportunity to broadcast OTA when they get done. Whether they'll get away with it has yet to be determined.

It's nice to hear you finally admit

I don't know a lot about Buffalo...

We know that. What's puzzling is why you keep coming to this board when you clearly don't have any connection to Buffalo/Rochester, and know little about what's actually going on here.

 

[TheBigA]

What's puzzling is why you keep coming to this board when you clearly don't have any connection to Buffalo/Rochester, and know little about what's actually going on here.

Simple: Consistently the most interesting conversation on this entire site. Plus I spent a short stretch of time in Upstate NY a long time ago. Never been back.

 

[TheBigA]

The corporations who overpaid for broadcast properties are using them as a tool to drive people to on-line delivery.

I don't think they have to drive anybody anywhere. They're already there. People go where they want to go. No one was driving AM listeners to FM. But they went. This is the same thing. The radio owners would prefer things never changed. But they did. So, as they did when AM moved to FM, they want a place at the table.

 

[cee]

But most local talent simply doesn't have the ability nor the resources to deliver unique content that the audience would want.

Not the case in Buffalo and Rochester. We have good talent up here. And not just morning drive. 97 Rock, WCMF, WYRK, WBEE, WLGZ, to name a few, sound pretty solid to me. Warm 101-3 - while soft rock is not my thing, they have good on air personalities for the format(I hear them stores everywhere, so I know).

By that, I'm talking about humor that doesn't come from a prep service or is self-serving.

There are still joke prep services and many on-air people use them??????? Haven't heard anyone use Electric Weenie jokes in years.

I don't know a lot about Buffalo, but what I do know is it's a declining market in terms of population and potential revenue. And it's declining fast.

You're right, you don't know much about Buffalo. And it's not declining. If you go by stats, they are not as had as much of the country(although you could make a strong argument the U.S. is declining quickly...but that's for a TIO discussion). Did I not read recently Rochester was #1 in job creation in upstate NY and Buffalo was #2 and did I not also read their unemployment rates are lower than the current national 9%? Actually, I believe the rest of the country is now getting a dose or what the Rust Belt cities have had to deal with for some time now...but again that's an argument for TIO.

You can ramble on about Bob Pittman and multiple platforms and how you're certain most radio people think it's still the 80's and you can ramble on till the cows come home, but boring voicetracked(or jockless) stations don't lead in Buffalo or Rochester.

BTW, anyone know how 97 Rock's evening ratings since they brought back Tom Tiberi(who is very good and to my knowledge does not use joke services)?

 

[TheBigA]

You're right, you don't know much about Buffalo. And it's not declining.

Sorry, but it is. As I said, in terms of population, the city numbers have dropped by 50% since 1980, 10% since 2000, and the Buffalo media market is no longer in the Top 50. The Buffalo Metro area is also losing people, not as dramatic as the city, but it's still dropping, at the same rate as Detroit-Warren-Flint MI in the last ten years. Rochester is better, but that may change depending on what happens to Kodak. Albany is actually the biggest bright spot in the upstate.

The real issue for radio isn't about job creation, but advertising. It's one thing to create jobs, but if the companies that are hiring don't advertise, then radio doesn't benefit. And ad rates are based on ratings, which are affected by the size of the population. As I always say, the commercials you hear on the air will tell you a lot about the health of the local economy. If the majority of the spots are for national chains, then it will be hard to justify more money for local talent.

 

[TheBigA]

You can ramble on about Bob Pittman and multiple platforms and how you're certain most radio people think it's still the 80's and you can ramble on till the cows come home, but boring voicetracked(or jockless) stations don't lead in Buffalo or Rochester.

As I said, that's not what Bob is proposing to do.

 

[cee]

Sorry, but it is. As I said, in terms of population, the city numbers have dropped by 50% since 1980, 10% since 2000, and the Buffalo media market is no longer in the Top 50.

If you not from around here, how do you know all this? Just googling around? The city's population dropped by 50% since 1980. What's your source? So Buf and Roc are not Top 50 markets anymore - it's doesn't mean both cities are fading away. Why is Albany the hotspot in upstate NY? Source please.

I recall you once telling people it's cheaper to buy their own health insurance...a simple visit to a Health Provider website proves the opposite is true. And today you about bad air talent, as if it applies to Buf-Roc(it doesn't) when you admit you don't even know the market. Also, nobody uses joke services anymore. There is no problem with air talents, except their aren't enough of them.

Also, if you some big PD hotshot(or whatever you claim to be), why are you constantly arguing with us here on this board? Wouldn't it be more productive to plan for tomorrow's workday?

I don't believe you even work in radio. I think you were probably in the business a long time ago and read up on the business on the internet.

 

[Jeff Michaels]

Warm 101-3 - while soft rock is not my thing, they have good on air personalities for the format(I hear them stores everywhere, so I know).

WARM may have good personalities, but they dont play soft rock anymore. As I said before, they are playing disco songs, hard rock, classic rock and current pop that falls nowhere near "soft rock" Its fine they changed their format, but at this rate, I keep waiting to hear Nine Inch Nails.

(Examples of their idea of soft rock, that is NO ONE elses: Don't Stop Believin, Hold The Line, Since U Been Gone, Lady Gaga, Firework by Katy Perry, Stayin Alive, I Will Survive... etc.