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The Declining state of radio and your opinion why...

Element9 said:
Look. A lot of talented people have been sent packing. Just today for example, Dan Formento was given the heave-ho by Cumulust. Formento has been in radio in some capacity, mostly in a national setting, for 35 years.

In my view, anyone who has been in the business for 35 years SHOULD have built up the connections and contacts to turn that experience into something else. If not, then you've been sleeping. Quite often, the catch is it requires moving to another market, or another format, reinventing oneself, and even learning new skills to add to the existing experience. If one is not willing to make those adjustments, then there is no excuse. Being a DJ is not a lifetime gig. But if you do it well, and become a recognized professional, you can turn it into more than baby-sitting a computer.

Element9 said:
There are businesses that pay mileage and offer child care and family sick time. Sure, it's fun being in radio. You get your ego stroked by listeners, clients, sometimes even managers. Sometimes you score the big money gig. But even then, when it's all said and done, the radio business resembles acting and professional athletics: the performer always dies twice.

There's some truth in that, and some people refuse to grow up. They still want to come to work in jeans, t-shirt, and five days of beard growth at age 55. But I'm here to tell you that there are some in radio who have found a way to get someone else pay for their law or graduate degree. If you dream of something besides running a board your whole life, there are ways to get there without going into debt. That's what mentors and coaches are all about. And you don't have to be a kid to get one.
 
TheBigA said:
There are thousands of former broadcasters, and many have found work at local colleges and even some high schools, where they teach and mentor future broadcasters. There are professional internship programs. And there is absolutely no reason why the out of work broadcasters can't volunteer to mentor young people. There are also professional talent mentors for hire. I know of several right now. They not only work and develop young talent, but they use their connections to get them jobs. I'm not kidding. No shortage of opportunities to learn the craft if you're willing to look and invest in yourself.

There's no educational program, broadcasting school, internship program, or mentor that can replace learning your craft in a small market, doing ALL the jobs at a radio station 6 days a week, 10 hours a day. Nothing beats the depth and breadth of actual experience. Even guys who's gotten in by pulling weekend or the rare overnights in larger markets don't get the same breadth of experience as the guys who came through the trenches.

TheBigA said:
There's some truth in that, and some people refuse to grow up. They still want to come to work in jeans, t-shirt, and five days of beard growth at age 55.

Seriously, Dude? That's YOUR view of talent? That may have been true of the all-night show in the '70s, but it wasn't even true of most jocks then. It's certainly not true now. These are guys that do a lot more than 4 and out the door, not including show prep. You need to catch up to what's going on in the real world in this millennium. Your "mentoring" is essentially saying "get out of the business", or "get off the air". Well, what's on the air is the PRODUCT. Without that, nothing else matters.
 
SirRoxalot said:
There's no educational program, broadcasting school, internship program, or mentor that can replace learning your craft in a small market, doing ALL the jobs at a radio station 6 days a week, 10 hours a day.

Says you. Small market radio can be a terrible place to learn the industry. The in-fighting, the jealousies among workers, the terrible habits created, and the substandard equipment. I've seen it first hand in a number of stations and markets. Plus, you think you're learning a system, and then you discover it's all different at the next place. The people who are working there are either not good enough to make it to the majors, or they're on their way down. Not sure which is worse. My first PD was on his way down. He had been a big star in NYC at one time, and was now a broken alcoholic. Certainly not the example one would want for a young energetic student. The morning man had been fired multiple times from the majors, and was filled with insecurities that someone was going to replace him. It was Peyton Place. The secretary was the wife of the GM, and she was having an affair with the engineer. Wonderful.

SirRoxalot said:
Seriously, Dude? That's YOUR view of talent? That may have been true of the all-night show in the '70s, but it wasn't even true of most jocks then. It's certainly not true now.

Go to radio station web sites and see the photos of the talent.
 
TheBigA said:
Small market radio can be a terrible place to learn the industry. The in-fighting, the jealousies among workers, the terrible habits created, and the substandard equipment. I've seen it first hand in a number of stations and markets. Plus, you think you're learning a system, and then you discover it's all different at the next place. The people who are working there are either not good enough to make it to the majors, or they're on their way down. Not sure which is worse. My first PD was on his way down. He had been a big star in NYC at one time, and was now a broken alcoholic. Certainly not the example one would want for a young energetic student. The morning man had been fired multiple times from the majors, and was filled with insecurities that someone was going to replace him. It was Peyton Place. The secretary was the wife of the GM, and she was having an affair with the engineer. Wonderful.

So, it's just like medium market, large market, and major-market radio. Like I said, the perfect place the learn the biz.

TheBigA said:
Go to radio station web sites and see the photos of the talent.

You're not seriousy saying that radio websites reflect radio reality, are you? Even you ought to know better than that. Ever heard the term "persona"?
 
SirRoxalot said:
So, it's just like medium market, large market, and major-market radio. Like I said, the perfect place the learn the biz.

Before you get to a station, the place to learn the biz is in college radio and with internships. One of my best internships was at a major market station where I spent a week at a time in different departments. I saw the best of the best doing it for big bucks. From there, I was a management trainee with an MSO, and I never looked back. If you want to be big time, you have to learn big time. Otherwise you're just picking up bad habits that'll be hard to break.

Competition is too tough to get an actual job in a station without some experience. Even in a small market. Unless we're talking about a station that's simply desperate for a warm body.

SirRoxalot said:
You're not seriousy saying that radio websites reflect radio reality, are you? Even you ought to know better than that. Ever heard the term "persona"?

If you saw the pictures I saw, they wouldn't be the ones I'd choose to reflect a "persona." This one guy needed some serious dental work. But I've been inside enough stations to know that this is how they look all the time. Which is why they should consider using professional pictures for the web site.
 
Now it's getting to the laughable parts, frankly, especially when you are talking about the in-fighting and affairs, which are funny as all get out.

True scenario - some little jockette getting ahead by cheating with some married guy at her little radio station. Then they find another couple to use as the persona for each of the cheaters, except that the people they chose are not amused. Then she worries that the guy she cheats with her is gonna cheat with somebody else, so she goes out on the prowl, stalking contest winners, checking to see where the married boyfriend is. Ha ha ha - what a life! Eating herself up while spending her life trying to steal everyone else's man...and having the nerve to drive around checking to see if the one she's cheating with is with somebody else, although it's okay if he's with his wife...as if anybody wants a cheat.

The whole time she's doing all of this, she is accusing other people who are not doing anything wrong...and of course spending lots of money on gas, but hey, as the little side fling she does okay.
 
TheBigA said:
Before you get to a station, the place to learn the biz is in college radio and with internships. One of my best internships was at a major market station where I spent a week at a time in different departments. I saw the best of the best doing it for big bucks. From there, I was a management trainee with an MSO, and I never looked back. If you want to be big time, you have to learn big time. Otherwise you're just picking up bad habits that'll be hard to break.

Competition is too tough to get an actual job in a station without some experience. Even in a small market. Unless we're talking about a station that's simply desperate for a warm body.

College radio and internships are indeed a place to start, but they hardly prepare you for the big time. Maybe that's why you never excelled as an air talent. Or are you changing your story on that?

TheBigA said:
If you saw the pictures I saw, they wouldn't be the ones I'd choose to reflect a "persona." This one guy needed some serious dental work. But I've been inside enough stations to know that this is how they look all the time. Which is why they should consider using professional pictures for the web site.

So we're talking about low-rent places that don't even invest enough in their product to put professional pictures on their website? Puh-lease. That's just bad management.
 
SirRoxalot said:
College radio and internships are indeed a place to start, but they hardly prepare you for the big time. Maybe that's why you never excelled as an air talent. Or are you changing your story on that?

My on air abilities had nothing to do with where I started or where I worked. I was on the air before I got to college. That's why I say talent is inate. You're either talented, or you go a different direction. No amount of training will turn a pig into a prince. I'm living proof that there are lots of options in radio besides being on the air. Which was news to me when I was 17. I was running my first station at 24, and never went on the air again.

My point is that if you're talented and you want to get better, spend the money and get personal training. Go to the DJ conventions like Conclave or CRS. You'll meet real talent coaches who know how to work with young talent, and aren't insecure or jealous. And they'll help you get a job.
 
TheBigA said:
There are thousands of former broadcasters, and many have found work at local colleges and even some high schools, where they teach and mentor future broadcasters. There are professional internship programs. And there is absolutely no reason why the out of work broadcasters can't volunteer to mentor young people...

A, I usually find you generally accurate if blunt and cynical, but this one's a real stretch. How many former air personalities had teaching certificates and a masters in education to qualify for entry-level teaching jobs? How many high schools have broadcasting programs? For that matter, how many high schools could pull together enough kids who care about radio to make a Part 15 station or club worth doing?

On-air talent who've left the business are doing other things to pay the rent, and it's tough to mentor broadcasters while you're spending 50 hours a week on the sales floor at the Chevy dealer.

I learned mainly through osmosis at good medium-market stations, watching the habits and techniques of successful radio folks with much more experience. (And I learned lessons in how NOT to do radio in small markets, and gained an appreciation for the better environments which would come my way later.)

In fact, I realize now that I learned a ton about quality work and professionalism as a listener even before I entered the industry. All these opportunities are much more rare now with gutted on-air staffs and jukebox formats.

A few years ago, I used to hear concern that the "farm team" system in small markets was disappearing. Now, it's even hard to find one in medium markets.
 
Paul_Warren said:
A, I usually find you generally accurate if blunt and cynical, but this one's a real stretch. How many former air personalities have teaching certificates and a masters in education?

Most colleges prefer professional experience to masters degrees in practical programs like broadcasting. Plus, they allow you to obtain your masters for free while you teach. It's even easier at Junior Colleges, but they don't pay very well. High schools are a little harder, and they do require state certification. Contact the Broadcast Education Association for specifics. They also have a job listing section on their web page. One thing you'll find is that if you only know on-air, you'll need to take a course or two in online media. The future is already here, and old dogs need to learn new tricks regardless if they stay in the business, or if they want to train future generations.

But you don't need certification or advanced degrees to hang out your shingle as a talent coach. It helps to be in a place where you have easy access to facilities, and have a relationship with a consultant or group programmer. Lots of people doing this. But it's all about relationships and friendships. Sell thyself. If you were in the business a while, you should have lots of contacts to draw on. Begin by writing a lot. Start your own programming blog, and write every day. Then start offering yourself as a speaker at things like Conclave. Use the blog as an example of your writing. It's not going to be quick or easy. But if you have experience to sell, you'll find markets where you can put your product out for sale.
 
Better to have a business degree and then the broadcasting degree. Otherwise you get nowhere pretty fast, except to ride around, down the side streets, looking in hotel parking lots and hightailing through unfamiliar territory when stuck in a jam, only to end up in front of somebody's second home, headed for a great big pool of water, because you got lost in somebody else's neighborhood.
 
I learned mainly through osmosis at good medium-market stations, watching the habits and techniques of successful radio folks with much more experience. (And I learned lessons in how NOT to do radio in small markets, and gained an appreciation for the better environments which would come my way later.)
So did I. (not to mention hundreds of hours of unpaid time, not to be confused with "internship", at a station to "learn the business" without expecting anything in return except KNOWLEDGE)
You're either talented, or you go a different direction.
True "A" (but some don't see it that way)
And they'll help you get a job
In Radio? Really? From what I'm reading and seeing...they're not hiring
Better to have a business degree and then the broadcasting degree.
Correct Silkie. I have one..and it's paying my bills after 25 years having fun in Radio.

This seems cynical, but it shouldn't. As one with a passion for the biz..but no hands on input these days (probably get fired anyway :D) it is becoming clear that the problems aren't rooted in the people, but in "Management" & "Business Models". We can argue day & night about the issues on this thread...but until you "own your own frequency"...someone else is calling the shots.

That's all
HDBG
 
I'll speak as somebody who's been out, done a few different things and is now back in, albeit temporarily, working at one of America's better NPR affiliates in Buffalo. In other words, "I'm not long term because things are about to change." Heh... as if that sensation never occurred to me in the many years of working commercial radio.

I'd like to address some of the issues and observations made in this thread. First, dress code and appearances: I've worked at clusters having news stations and CHR stations, Active Rock, Classic Rock and Oldies stations. In all my years, not one person resembled the previously described "55 year old sporting five days stubble." For the most part, it was khakis and blue collar shirts. Often much better. Maybe clean, untorn jeans and a hoody on a dress down Friday. Long hair and beards? That went out, in what? 1985? I've known most of the people who worked at other clusters in Buffalo. Genuinely good and decent people. Irony of ironies, the two guys who actually do sport facial hair and could be in the 55+ demo are legacies at the competing Hot AC stations.

Experiences? I worked my way up through the minors and I am damn lucky. I'll be the first to admit that much of the modest success I enjoyed came from grunting it out, knowing people and proving I was capable of doing the job when given the opportunity. In the small markets, I worked with guys who were mostly on their way up and a few who had hit some rough water. All of them made an impression on me, mostly good. And as has been noted by a few people here, you could also learn something from observing the guys who squandered talent, money, good health and opportunity. Like many people my age, I'm a child of Depression Era parents. Waste not, want not is more than a slogan. A well known Buffalo morning man, when being chided for his frugality, is known to have said, "I'm not cheap, I'm practical." Touche!

Internships and education? I ran successful internship programs at two different radio stations in my career and occasionally lectured at a few colleges. I also taught at a local radio school, which to be truthful, was less than pure. Despite that, all of my classes were by the book and above board. After about 12 months, I left. But I taught some very good students there and was proud of their accomplishments in the business. One posts on this board, another is a news legacy in Buffalo.

Two students that participated in the internship programs I oversaw are working in large or major markets. Internship programs changed drastically in the 90s. And even in the mid 1980s, the stations I worked for required interns to be in a credit bearing course and my verification, observation and grading of their work was required by the college and my employer. (One of those interns, now in a large medium market, came to me in a huff after I gave him a 'B' as a final grade. He thought he deserved an "A." I responded: "I don't give 'A's'. To do so would be dishonest. Consider a 'B' the highest attainable grade in my class. This station has very high standards." Three years later, after he broke into the large medium market, he wrote to thank me for the 'B'.) These days, a lot of radio stations simply do not offer internships because of insurance restrictions, academic compliance requirements or company policies.

Teaching in college? At my last commercial job, I worked with two full time college teachers. And man, do they work hard! A person may get an adjunct teaching position at a SUNY college, but unless he/she has a Bachelor degree, all those years of experience mean little. Masters mandatory for any kind of professorial track. Community college (BTW, I haven't heard or read the term "junior college," even for athletes who used to say "JuCo" when they needed to get their grades up, since around 1979. But I digress.)

Nobody just shows up at the Dean's office and says, "I worked in radio news for twenty years, I wanna teach. Assign me a few classes." Teaching is a demanding profession. Teaching isn't a day at the beach. It's damn hard work with as much time spent prepping lessons as teaching them. Lots of people think they can teach... until they're standing in front of a classroom of twenty to one hundred students. I would not want to teach today.

At the community college level, a Bachelors degree is required in NY state. In many cases, especially when community colleges are going through Mid State Colleges certification, people without a degree need not apply. Competition for openings is intense. Ever tried to get a real professorship? Yes, there are positions for "life-experienced professionals" but openings for those positions are rare and the competition is fierce.

Hanging out your shingle? Sure, why not. Every underemployed-unemployed jock, production guy can be a voice actor, production meister, podcaster or talent coach/consultant. (Ahem. Got the t-shirt and wore it for a while.) Give it your best shot. But understand that, especially in the last five years, the number of unemployed/underemployed jocks has increased exponentially and just about everybody has a production studio in a closet, spare bedroom, basement or attic. Give it a go. Lightning can strike in the same place more than once. Just keep Dirty Harry Callahan's words in mind, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

A very good friend of mine who does national voiceovers (Buffalo posters know who he is) says the competition for voice-overs is ridiculous because every Donna, Dick and Terry who has a computer and thinks he/she is a national VO artist. There's a circle of voiceover people who get work, and a vast number who don't get called. Another friend tells me there's a guy in a major southern market who undercuts local and national talent, doing VO spots for 30 dollars a holler. (BTW, nobody we know on this board.)

What did we read today in Taylor On Radio? Cumulus signed a deal with an imaging company to handle all of Cumulus' imaging. No doubt that will affect the sound of some radio stations we're familiar with here in Buffalo and the imaging guys who (soon to be "used to") provide their imaging.

Many of us have had different experiences in the business of radio as well as life. The serene people don't insist that "the way they experienced life is the way it is" for everybody. One more thing as I conclude this screed, a wonderful scene from Cheers, wherein Norm says, "It's a dog-eat-dog world out there... and I'm wearin' Milk bone underwear." Now that's great writing and acting. It still makes me laugh.
 
JustPastBuffalo (which means anywhere from Canada to PA :D) quite the post!! Thank you.

A question though (much of your time spent on "teaching"):
What are they teaching these days? Besides the technical engineering (and those guys make this ferris wheel run)..what is the syllabus for the courses? I refer to Big A (and agree) when he says
You're either talented, or you go a different direction.
It equates to a "Leader is born, not made".
I've often wondered this (even when I was "in" the biz)...exactly what are they "teaching"?

HDBG
 
heydaybegone said:
I refer to Big A (and agree) when he says
You're either talented, or you go a different direction.
It equates to a "Leader is born, not made".

I think it's true. Charisma isn't taught.

What do they teach? Depends on the school. I've found that some schools are more practical than others, some more theoretical. Some teach "interpersonal communication" and some teach "elements of broadcasting." Woe be the kid who goes to a college hoping to learn something practical, only to discover that he's among a bunch of theoreticians. McLuhan may be interesting to some, you should at least know who he is, but books by Sklar are more practical. Digital editing is usually a sophomore level course. Program formats and clocks come up in junior year. Independent study for seniors. Management, law, sales, business, etc are all electives.

But as I said, obviously new media is a big element in the curriculum today. I find the word "strategic" being a buzzword in colleges today.
 
Where in the curiculum is Maxwell's equations?
Impedance theory? Transmission line behavior? Shileding and grounding practices?
How about rf ingress into circuits, and control of rf bypassing? IT and networking?
How about cleaning up spurious responses? Power supplies and distribution?
How about understanding SWR and antenna behavior?

Oh, that's right. All that stuff just takes care of iteself now, and no one needs an engineer
to figure out there's snow in the sat dish or ice on the roto tillers.

And why does the audio sound like a cheap digital noisemaker greeting card?
Never mind, everything sounds that way now.

A business degree only teaches how to make money, and should not be confused with applications of tangible arts.
 
TheBigA said:
...One thing you'll find is that if you only know on-air, you'll need to take a course or two in online media.The future is already here, and old dogs need to learn new tricks regardless if they stay in the business, or if they want to train future generations.

...But you don't need certification or advanced degrees to hang out your shingle as a talent coach...if you have experience to sell, you'll find markets where you can put your product out for sale.

I'm coming up on the sixth anniversary of the end of my last radio job, and recently passed my fifth anniversary making a full-time living in web-based media. I'm grateful to be an old dog who learned enough new tricks to be adopted before I was euthanized at the pound. Of all the things I've taken away from my time in radio, I would expect coaching radio talent to be one of the least marketable. Rewarding, sure, but I don't need another hobby. Talk about a shrinking market!

There are old media skills new media needs desperately. Some of them are research, positioning, strategy and tactics, and promotion. Some growing new media creators are coming to realize this.

As an example, producers of web video content often are ignorant or dismissive of best practices for increasing viewer retention in broadcast TV. The platform, content and demographics are all different, but what causes people to change a broadcast TV channel is not fundamentally different from what will make them skip ahead in a web video or start watching a different one. TV has done hundreds of millions of dollars in research over a period of decades to find out what makes people want to watch things. Most YouTube members settle for throwing darts to see what goes viral. I see opportunity here.

If I was inclined to start a blog, it would not be about radio programming. If I was going to work to get invited to a trade show, it wouldn't be Conclave. I'd look to bring the insights and skills I've accumulated to some parallel universe where talent is in demand and employers budget to train people. New media will soon be one of those universes.

I've been asked to help develop online training materials for an industry niche, a world in which teaching certifications are meaningless and results are everything. You'd be surprised how much of what I learned in radio is applicable. I'm pumped about 2012!
 
Paul_Warren said:
I've been asked to help develop online training materials for an industry niche, a world in which teaching certifications are meaningless and results are everything. You'd be surprised how much of what I learned in radio is applicable. I'm pumped about 2012!

I'm not at all surprised.
 
Working under someone else's license should be disallowed, and exams should be given, away from the station or corporation; in person, proctored, people sitting for the exams separated by at least two chair spaces, not multiple choice.
 
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