The great Wave/KOST fight of the 2010s rages on!!!

[davideduardo]

KRTH is in the same predicament as many other Oldies/Classic Hits stations; how to play more 80s and a smattering of nineties music without alienating the listeners who turn to KRTH for the 60s and 70s music which is the heart & soul of the station.

The station is paving the way for the time when all the 60's stuff disappears, which is the same thing AC stations did when they eliminated the Carpenters, Chicago and Manilow... keeping the demo constant by refreshing the music to appeal to new entrants and, frankly speaking, "flushing" the 55+ listeners if it came to that.

I also agree that Jhani Kaye saved 'The Wave' by decreasing the amount of instrumentals in favor of more vocals, but had the station been suffering the same 'aging audience' problem that KRTH has before Kaye took over?

The PPM killed smooth jazz on two counts. The format was a high TSL lower cume proposition in the diary, but in PPM it got a much lower TSL and the cume did not increase like it did for most other formats. Second, the format was getting very old in the diary. In PPM we had an aging format that performed poorly in the new system... in other words, a perfect storm.

Kaye was brought in to pull the station back into stronger 25-54 performance.

I also agree that the dismissal of the air talent at KOST was hideous & unconscionable;

Speaking from personal experience, radio believes it can no longer afford the high-priced experienced talent, on and off the air, that pre-recession, pre-new media days created.

 

[wdb2003]

The nineties were an absolute disaster for top 40 radio as country, AC, Smooth Jazz, Classic Rock and the burgeoning Hot AC format all took healthy chunks of listeners from what had been a very stout format; over 100 stations bailed out of the format between the very late eighties and the early 2000s.

KRTH is in the same predicament as many other Oldies/Classic Hits stations; how to play more 80s and a smattering of nineties music without alienating the listeners who turn to KRTH for the 60s and 70s music which is the heart & soul of the station.

I also agree that Jhani Kaye saved 'The Wave' by decreasing the amount of instrumentals in favor of more vocals, but had the station been suffering the same 'aging audience' problem that KRTH has before Kaye took over?

I also agree that the dismissal of the air talent at KOST was hideous & unconscionable; Bryan Simmons certainly ranks as one of LAs finest air personalities ever, and not everybody gets to work the PM drive timeslot which has spawned tons of legendary jocks in LA going back to the sixties, and I have no idea why Kari Steele was moved to KOST from KBIG.

KOST needed a strong midday host and Kari fits it. Although we all kinda figure they were gonna VT another jock from another market. The same with the afternoon shift. Not to mention CC management might have figured Kari doesnt fit KBIG anymore with its current direction. Bryan Simmons was on KBIG and then moved back to KOST. The same with Gary Spears. He use to be on KIIS but once it moved into a younger Rhythmic direction he moved to KBIG LOL... which had alot of gold rhythmic music. The same with Valentine moving to KYSR and then KBIG. I guess its the demos

 

[calguy]

The nineties were an absolute disaster for top 40 radio as country, AC, Smooth Jazz, Classic Rock and the burgeoning Hot AC format all took healthy chunks of listeners from what had been a very stout format; over 100 stations bailed out of the format between the very late eighties and the early 2000s.

KRTH is in the same predicament as many other Oldies/Classic Hits stations; how to play more 80s and a smattering of nineties music without alienating the listeners who turn to KRTH for the 60s and 70s music which is the heart & soul of the station.

I also agree that Jhani Kaye saved 'The Wave' by decreasing the amount of instrumentals in favor of more vocals, but had the station been suffering the same 'aging audience' problem that KRTH has before Kaye took over?

I also agree that the dismissal of the air talent at KOST was hideous & unconscionable; Bryan Simmons certainly ranks as one of LAs finest air personalities ever, and not everybody gets to work the PM drive timeslot which has spawned tons of legendary jocks in LA going back to the sixties, and I have no idea why Kari Steele was moved to KOST from KBIG.

KOST needed a strong midday host and Kari fits it. Although we all kinda figure they were gonna VT another jock from another market. The same with the afternoon shift. Not to mention CC management might have figured Kari doesnt fit KBIG anymore with its current direction. Bryan Simmons was on KBIG and then moved back to KOST. The same with Gary Spears. He use to be on KIIS but once it moved into a younger Rhythmic direction he moved to KBIG LOL... which had alot of gold rhythmic music. The same with Valentine moving to KYSR and then KBIG. I guess its the demos

From what I've heard the motivations for Kari Steele's move to KOST are not demo related. She wanted to go back to KOST, and lobbied for it. The scale is higher at KOST and CC wanted to use her for their premium choice programming so it dovetailed. The story on Simmons return to KOST was not age related either. That story had big coverage from Don Barrett. When his replacement quit to work on television he was asked to come back to KOST by management. He was doing just fine at KBIG and from the info I've been able to put together KBIG didn't want to lose him at the time but were overruled. They made a big deal about her leaving and his return with a joint show from Universal Studios. CC used their corporate speak when explaining his recent departure as going in a new direction", but the real story is that these moves were simply about the money. CC makes a ton, but because their still in debt, they'll fire someone just to reduce costs. Sound, talent and performance didn't factor in the moves. Simmons' replacement isn't that good, but he's working for a lot less. Who KOST has on the air doesn't really mean as much to Clear Channel. Right now you could hire a monkey for KOST and they'd do well and they know it. We may not like it, because a lot of us are still stuck on wanting the stations we listen to to have the best sound, but that's secondary as all CC wants is to do is make money...

 

[RBRadioWaves]

From what I've heard the motivations for Kari Steele's move to KOST are not demo related. She wanted to go back to KOST, and lobbied for it. The scale is higher at KOST and CC wanted to use her for their premium choice programming so it dovetailed. The story on Simmons return to KOST was not age related either. That story had big coverage from Don Barrett. When his replacement quit to work on television he was asked to come back to KOST by management. He was doing just fine at KBIG and from the info I've been able to put together KBIG didn't want to lose him at the time but were overruled. They made a big deal about her leaving and his return with a joint show from Universal Studios. CC used their corporate speak when explaining his recent departure as going in a new direction", but the real story is that these moves were simply about the money. CC makes a ton, but because their still in debt, they'll fire someone just to reduce costs. Sound, talent and performance didn't factor in the moves. Simmons' replacement isn't that good, but he's working for a lot less. Who KOST has on the air doesn't really mean as much to Clear Channel. Right now you could hire a monkey for KOST and they'd do well and they know it. We may not like it, because a lot of us are still stuck on wanting the stations we listen to to have the best sound, but that's secondary as all CC wants is to do is make money...

If it were up to me, I would have just moved Kari over and kept Simmons. But, no. Clear Channel wanted god-knows how many stations via Mergers in the late 90s. (Ironically, something similar happened in SF, where Don Bleu was moved from "Star 101" to "103.7" to try and gain ratings.)

Now, another question is "What will be the final straw for KOST listeners?" "The Fish" bailed Karen Sharp out by picking up Delilah. Let me tell you, if Karen gets fired, we all know what will happen. "The Wave" will bring her on in some fashion, KOST will plummet in the ratings until they break out the Christmas tree as everybody else is trick-or-treating, people will go to "Night Grooves", and Clear Channel will still scratch their heads as to why people are going to Internet or Sirius XM radio.

Also, if they fire Mark, people will flee the station. Then again, if that DOES happen, they COULD try and coax Rick Dees into moving over to KOST, which MIGHT mitigate some of the damage.

 

[wdb2003]

Nope Rick Dees to me doesnt fit KOST at all. Its amazing how that station has become so bland and boring now. Cumulus seems to use Rick Dees to VT on a few AC/ Hot AC stations in some markets. Cumulus AC KMAJ in Topeka KS uses his daily show during the middays. Rick going to HOT was a strange move but it pay off over in time. No big promotion of commericals of Rick dancing like those Movin commericals.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Please explain how 'The Fish bailed out Karen Sharp by picking up Delilah'?'

Rick Dees moving to KOST to do mornings? What would be the point of that? The only LA stations where Dees in AM drive would make any sense based on the target demo IMHO would be KRTH or KBIG.

IIRC, Gary Bryan & Co. will mark 10 years at KRTH sometime this summer, and Sean Valentine sounds pretty good at KBIG with a very breezy and adult-friendly show.

 

[wdb2003]

Delilah show is being dropped from stations like flys accross the US. The only stations that are picking her up are Christian stations in Portland Sacramento and here. Even CC WLIT in Chicago dropped her finally. Why would you put a syndicated radio show on at night during the week? Thats when you have the most listeners tuning in for either love song request or new CHR and Rhythmic music. Thats why Billy Bush flopped. His show doesnt fit CHR radio. If CC wanted her back on in LA just air it overnight between 12-5am. Nobody would notice. KOST hasnt had a overnight jocks in years.

Thats the question Im trying to figure out why he wasnt moved over to KBIG to begin with? I know Charlie was at KBIG when Dees left.

 

[calguy]

The Fish did help Karen Sharp. It goes like this... CC. Premiere and Delilah herself have been trying to get her show on here in LA for years. According to my source, they wanted KOST to air CDelilah in the overnight if nowhere else and Stella Prado still wouldn't budge. But that was BA(before Andrew)as she has little power now. But if they had put Delilah on overnights it would've been one step away from moving that show to 7 to midnight, so it was a good thing the PD held firm. For Delilah being in LA is for her ego, for the company it serves 2 purposes. It gets her on in one of the largest media markets in the world and two, it eliminates a large salary by getting rid of the local jock(Karen). By putting her on at the Fish, it keeps Karen employed (IMOHO her days are numbered by the Ops manager)and it gets Delilah on in LA sort of(it's an OC station). The Fish may be a better fit as well for Delilah because of the religious overtones of her show. God knows she didn't fit at KBIG either time they tried her there.

Rick Dees on KOST? I heard that they tried to get him back in the mid 80's and ended up with MG Kelly instead. Dees seems to be a good fit at KHHT, but I really think he blew it by negotiating himself out of KRTH.

Billy Bush, horrible show. He has one delivery, loud.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

I agree that Billy Bush is indeed shrill, certainly far more than many of the standout personalities who've been on the air here with a real 'up' delivery, including Shotgun, CK Cooper, The Real Don Steele, Steve Lundy, Barry Kaye, JB Stone and many others.

I've read your previous posts regarding Delilah's attempts to get on KBIG or KOST, but she never fit during that experiment @ KBIG; her show was horrendously out of place.

Apparently the 'suits' and 'beancounters' don't really care as much as those of us who've listened to any given radio station for both the music AND the personalities about how encouraging personalities to communicate with their listeners actually enchances the listening ecxperience.

Deliliah would fit very nicely at 'The Fish'; no doubt about it.

 

[calguy]

I agree that Billy Bush is indeed shrill, certainly far more than many of the standout personalities who've been on the air here with a real 'up' delivery, including Shotgun, CK Cooper, The Real Don Steele, Steve Lundy, Barry Kaye, JB Stone and many others.

I've read your previous posts regarding Delilah's attempts to get on KBIG or KOST, but she never fit during that experiment @ KBIG; her show was horrendously out of place.

Apparently the 'suits' and 'beancounters' don't really care as much as those of us who've listened to any given radio station for both the music AND the personalities about how encouraging personalities to communicate with their listeners actually enchances the listening experience.

Deliliah would fit very nicely at 'The Fish'; no doubt about it.

The problem with Billy Bush was that he fell into someone's idea of how to deliver his lines, a lot like Pat O'Brien did the last several years he was on TV. They practically yell at you, but in Bush's case, he's somewhat monotone. I would submit that he can't really be compared to Shotgun, CK Cooper, The Real Don Steele, Steve Lundy, Barry Kaye, JB Stone as they all had style. Bush, I don't think he has any style. There seemed to be a lack of warmth, it sounds more like he's trying to get it over with as fast as he can. There's no one on one connection, he talking "at you" not "to" you...

To me, Delilah sounds fake, but I agree, if she's going to be anywhere, a Christian station seems like the best fit.

 

[wpb1999]

Billy and his cousin George (Bush) will be okay..... Maybe he can stay with the older cousin in Dallas while stations are dropping him. Darn!

 

[Marv-L.A.]

I don't really think there's a 'hole' between KBIG & KOST for CBS to try and slip KTWV into; isn't KTWV's audience a much more affluent one and quite a bit older than the listeners of either KOST or KBIG?

Put it another way--has KTWV's audience gotten younger since Jhani Kaye took over?

I'm sure that KTWV & KHHT share some listeners, but I don't know if either one 'superserves' the 7% or 8% of the market that's African-American, although KHHT appears to be more focused on them than KTWV is.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't really think there's a 'hole' between KBIG & KOST for CBS to try and slip KTWV into; isn't KTWV's audience a much more affluent one and quite a bit older than the listeners of either KOST or KBIG?

KBIG and KOST have about 22% higher income 35-54's (over$75 k a year) while KTWV is under 20%. I'm using ranges, as Arbitron has been very specific about revealing its copyright ratings data.

Put it another way--has KTWV's audience gotten younger since Jhani Kaye took over?

Yes, and the aging-out-of-salable-demos is somewhat reversed.

I'm sure that KTWV & KHHT share some listeners, but I don't know if either one 'superserves' the 7% or 8% of the market that's African-American, although KHHT appears to be more focused on them than KTWV is.

Considering that half of KHHT's listening is Hispanic and fully a third is Black, that would mean that Hot does quite well with the African American community. The Wave is just under half non-Hispanic, non-Black... so its core is quite different.

 

[calguy]

KBIG and KOST have about 22% higher income 35-54's (over$75 k a year) while KTWV is under 20%. I'm using ranges, as Arbitron has been very specific about revealing its copyright ratings data.

Interesting. You would think that since the Wave sounds so much classier that it would be a higher percentage for them. Could it just be that way because KOST and KBIG have more listeners?

 

[wdb2003]

Yes. I finally gave this station a listen online. Man, I'd fall asleep on the expressway with this on in my car.[/quote]

You really cant enjoy the true sound of a radio station online. Content is edit and some songs are not even played online. You have to actually live in Los Angeles to understand enjoy the Wave's music.

 

[calguy]

Yes. I finally gave this station a listen online. Man, I'd fall asleep on the expressway with this on in my car.

You really cant enjoy the true sound of a radio station online. Content is edit and some songs are not even played online. You have to actually live in Los Angeles to understand enjoy the Wave's music.
[/quote]

Good reply to Seltzer's post. Just because a station is too slow for you, doesn't mean it's badly programmed. Seltzer just isn't the target demo, unless Seltzer is a female in the right age demo. Just because a station doesn't appeal to me doesn't mean it's not a good station. There are many, many stations that are programmed to perfection that I don't care for, but I can still tell the difference between the good and the bad, even if I don't like it.

I think the Wave is well programmed, but I don't know if they'll ever beat KOST unless they go right after them.

 

[wdb2003]

Agreed a well programmed station that fits Los Angeles. Im not in the stations demo either but its more listenable now vs its Smooth Jazz format that would put me to asleep while driving. Its no doubt that Jhani saved this station. Any other PD would have fully blown it up for somthing else.

 

[wdb2003]

I think the Wave is well programmed, but I don't know if they'll ever beat KOST unless they go right after them.

They already beaten KOST with the airstaff. All they gotta do is put Brian and Mike on the weekdays and its done. But Talaya and Deborah earned their spots respectfully. Even the morning show with Kim and Pat is more interesting than Mark and Kristin. Im sorry but her voice is kinda irritating.

 

[davideduardo]

Agreed a well programmed station that fits Los Angeles. Im not in the stations demo either but its more listenable now vs its Smooth Jazz format that would put me to asleep while driving. Its no doubt that Jhani saved this station. Any other PD would have fully blown it up for somthing else.

I don't think that blowing the station up was a first... or second or third... choice.

I would imagine the discussions started with, "well, how can we keep the brand and preserve the billing and get back into the race on 25-54?" So the answer of making a modification to a form of A/C was logical.

Blowing up a format with good, albeit declining, billing is too costly. You lose nearly everything, and it takes a year or more to build up the multi-book rolling average that agencies look at to place buys.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

I agree with you; wasn't KTWV 'rebuilt' several years ago after that disastrous decision to place two very talkative females in AM drive resulted in their ratings going off the cliff for the entire lineup?

i don't think CBS would want to go through such an extensive and expensive reconstruction job again; 'blowing up' the station wouldn't have made any sense whatsoever, I don't think.