Could this happen again since NBC is lower than it was back then? Fox would have a lot to gain. They already had one:KBTV Beaumont-Port Arthur,TX was an NBC for over 50 years and defected to Fox at the start of this year. Now it wouldn't necessary be to channel position, but for much stronger stations overall.
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The NBC affiliate defection of the late 70's-early 80's
- Thread starter hifidistortion
- Start date
In Memphis it wouldn't be any improvement. NBC is on WMC 5, which will be remaining on 5 after the digital transition, (REALLY dumb move! 
) While WHBQ Fox 13 will remain on 13. Although I won't be able to get either other than from cable, for Fox to move to 5 would be major problem for Fox, while NBC moving to 13 would be an improvement for NBC, but a step down from WHBQ's viewpoint.
) While WHBQ Fox 13 will remain on 13. Although I won't be able to get either other than from cable, for Fox to move to 5 would be major problem for Fox, while NBC moving to 13 would be an improvement for NBC, but a step down from WHBQ's viewpoint.I doubt there will be any changes in the Washington DC DMA. Not talking about WRC since they are an NBC O&O ( though there have been rumors on DCRTV about NBC wanting to unload WRC ) but rather Hagerstown,MD's WHAG NBC 25. Besides who could they go with?
FOX? WTTG is a FOX O&O..never happen/
ABC? Nearby Winchester, VA has their own ABC thanks to Harrisonburg's VA's WHSV and their signal can make it to Hagerstown but with ABC's close ties to DC's WJLA and WJLA's "rules" for Winchester to get their own ABC such as barring them from being on Direct TV and Dish Network and the fact that Winchester's ABC3 can't even advertise their product ( though WJLA did allow Gray/WHSV for a very brief time to buy billboards in the Northern Shenandoah Valley to advertise ABC 3's News ).. anyway WHAG would be foolish to even consider ABC.
CBS? Though not a part of the market, Baltimore's WJZ is ON cable there...WJZ still has the viewers in Hagerstown. Doubtful.. But this could happen since again, WJZ isnt part of the local market and WUSA/Gannett several years back ( mid 90s ) had no problems with a third party wanting to establish a CBS station in the region..Benchmark Communications and Martinsburg, WV's channel 60. But would WUSA be willing to do that today is another question.
Even if NBC had ZERO ratings, unless they go religious or home shopping, chances are WHAG will stay with NBC.
FOX? WTTG is a FOX O&O..never happen/
ABC? Nearby Winchester, VA has their own ABC thanks to Harrisonburg's VA's WHSV and their signal can make it to Hagerstown but with ABC's close ties to DC's WJLA and WJLA's "rules" for Winchester to get their own ABC such as barring them from being on Direct TV and Dish Network and the fact that Winchester's ABC3 can't even advertise their product ( though WJLA did allow Gray/WHSV for a very brief time to buy billboards in the Northern Shenandoah Valley to advertise ABC 3's News ).. anyway WHAG would be foolish to even consider ABC.
CBS? Though not a part of the market, Baltimore's WJZ is ON cable there...WJZ still has the viewers in Hagerstown. Doubtful.. But this could happen since again, WJZ isnt part of the local market and WUSA/Gannett several years back ( mid 90s ) had no problems with a third party wanting to establish a CBS station in the region..Benchmark Communications and Martinsburg, WV's channel 60. But would WUSA be willing to do that today is another question.
Even if NBC had ZERO ratings, unless they go religious or home shopping, chances are WHAG will stay with NBC.
I think there is a SIGNIFICANT chance of a massive NBC affiliate defection, particularly if Jay Leno doesn't produce ratings. That may be okay for NBC, who think that Jay will save them money, but its horrible for local affiliate, whose local news will suffer. WHDH Boston backed down for now, but I think that if Jay doesn't produce the goods, I think NBC Boston will move.
I also think we'll see a lot of Fox affiliates who will jump at the chance get the history of NBC, and NBC affiliates who want the high ratings of Fox.
I also think we'll see a lot of Fox affiliates who will jump at the chance get the history of NBC, and NBC affiliates who want the high ratings of Fox.
hifidistortion said:
NBC owns 7 of their Top-10-market stations (Boston, Atlanta, and Houston being the exceptions), plus #16 Miami. NBC-friendly Gannett owns 5 affiliates (all very strong stations AFAIK) in the Top 20. That's 13 important stations that aren't going anywhere.
All of their O&Os (10 stations) are in Top 30 markets. The Top 30 are about half the country. They own roughly half of that.
Since NBC (at least by reputation) doesn't care about anything under Market #20, I don't think they'll be hurt if a few (or even a few dozen) stations in Flyover Territory drop them. Another one will come along.
Their biggest problem is Boston, especially after the Jay Leno flap.
A lot of these defection in the late 70s happened because ABC wanted VHF stations and lower channel VHF stations. Like in Indianapolis and Minneapolis ABC went from High VHF to low VHF. With digital TV there's no real need to do that anymore, at least in terms of signal.
Oddly enough many of those trades were not great and in some cases like Jacksonville Florida, NBC was restored to the VHF in a few years.
Ratings don't really matter anymore as long as the networks can make money off them. There's not the status of being #1 like there was in the late 70s.
We'll see though
Oddly enough many of those trades were not great and in some cases like Jacksonville Florida, NBC was restored to the VHF in a few years.
Ratings don't really matter anymore as long as the networks can make money off them. There's not the status of being #1 like there was in the late 70s.
We'll see though
One difference between now and 30 years ago is that
the networks lock in their affiliates with ten-year contracts,
as opposed to two-year ones then. So, for example,
WXIA Atlanta is locked in with NBC until 2015. Some of the
postings I've seen from Georgia say that 11 Alive has a
monster digital signal on Channel 10, whereas traditional
market leader WSB (ABC)'s leaves something to be desired
on Channel 39. But I don't see any switch there (even fourth-
place CBS affiliate WGCL is on digital 19), especially if WSB
stays on virtual channel 2. And I think that if WXIA were
to switch again, it would be to CBS; ABC isn't dropping WSB
if it can help it, and WAGA is a Fox o&o.
We'll have to wait and see what happens come June 12;
will all-digital affect viewing habits?
the networks lock in their affiliates with ten-year contracts,
as opposed to two-year ones then. So, for example,
WXIA Atlanta is locked in with NBC until 2015. Some of the
postings I've seen from Georgia say that 11 Alive has a
monster digital signal on Channel 10, whereas traditional
market leader WSB (ABC)'s leaves something to be desired
on Channel 39. But I don't see any switch there (even fourth-
place CBS affiliate WGCL is on digital 19), especially if WSB
stays on virtual channel 2. And I think that if WXIA were
to switch again, it would be to CBS; ABC isn't dropping WSB
if it can help it, and WAGA is a Fox o&o.
We'll have to wait and see what happens come June 12;
will all-digital affect viewing habits?
Mark said:
IIRC, part of that was due to KSTP not wanting to pay more for NBC affiliation.
All these years later, with KMSP as a solid Fox owned affiliate and NBC down at the bottom, it would seem that the KSTP ABC affiliation flip in Minneapolis is finally paying off, eh?
(BTW: I was a kid living in Minnesota when the flip happened, so I remember it).
It took the new NBC affiliate, now known as
KARE11, only about four or five years to reach
some semblance of parity. Formerly independent
WTCN, it got the NBC affiliation in 1979 and from
a practically-nonexistent news department, it
built in facilities and ratings to number two in
the all-important 10 PM slot by 1984; in prime time
it ran behind only WCCO for most of the '80s and '90s.
As one of those NBC-friendly Gannett stations (I assume
the others are WXIA, KUSA, and KPNX), I don't think KARE
will leave the Peacock.
KARE11, only about four or five years to reach
some semblance of parity. Formerly independent
WTCN, it got the NBC affiliation in 1979 and from
a practically-nonexistent news department, it
built in facilities and ratings to number two in
the all-important 10 PM slot by 1984; in prime time
it ran behind only WCCO for most of the '80s and '90s.
As one of those NBC-friendly Gannett stations (I assume
the others are WXIA, KUSA, and KPNX), I don't think KARE
will leave the Peacock.
If NBC does sell WRC-TV, I wouldn't be betting on an affiliation swap. Including WUSA, Gannett owns four CBS affiliates (the others being WTSP/St. Petersburg-Tampa, WMAZ/Macon, and KTHV/Little Rock). I don't see the point of rocking the boat with CBS in those other markets. Even if Gannett is "NBC friendly," I don't think they'd dump top-rated CBS in DC for basement-dwelling NBC. Now if CBS were to buy WRC, then we can start talking swap!
WTRF Wheeling, WV dropped NBC for CBS in 1980... even though the Ohio Valley did not have an ABC affiliate at the time. It was quite a surprise when WTOV Steubenville, OH-Wheeling, the former CBS affiliate, picked up NBC. A few years later, WTOV became the top station in the market and hasn't looked back.
Re: NBC and Gannett
NBC and ABC appear to want out of the O&O business. CBS has expressed no such sendiment, and in fact probably wants an O&O in Washington. After the economy recovers, WRC being sold to CBS is not out of the question. Such a move might be also complicated by the fact WRC and NBC News' Washington bureau are in the same building. I suspect WRC would move to CBS' Washington bureau. (WUSA could move in with NBC, as NBC's Atlanta bureau has apparently moved in with WXIA/WATL at their new studio).
Given how consolidation is going...a company that owns TV stations aligning itself with one broadcast network may be where things are going in the future. It seems like to me $$$$$$$ can be saved by consolidating everything from technical operations to marketing by such a move (don't give anyone more bad ideas then they already have).
Keep in mind...NBC is #1 in news (although ABC is very close behind), and is #1 in late night (currently...we will have to see how the changes hold). If ABC does overtake #1 in news, and CBS in late night, then we might hear of a few defections at that point. More importantly, if any of the other networks put compensation in front of the affilate, and NBC does not offer any, expect defections.
NBC and ABC appear to want out of the O&O business. CBS has expressed no such sendiment, and in fact probably wants an O&O in Washington. After the economy recovers, WRC being sold to CBS is not out of the question. Such a move might be also complicated by the fact WRC and NBC News' Washington bureau are in the same building. I suspect WRC would move to CBS' Washington bureau. (WUSA could move in with NBC, as NBC's Atlanta bureau has apparently moved in with WXIA/WATL at their new studio).
Given how consolidation is going...a company that owns TV stations aligning itself with one broadcast network may be where things are going in the future. It seems like to me $$$$$$$ can be saved by consolidating everything from technical operations to marketing by such a move (don't give anyone more bad ideas then they already have).
Keep in mind...NBC is #1 in news (although ABC is very close behind), and is #1 in late night (currently...we will have to see how the changes hold). If ABC does overtake #1 in news, and CBS in late night, then we might hear of a few defections at that point. More importantly, if any of the other networks put compensation in front of the affilate, and NBC does not offer any, expect defections.
mleach said:
Let's put this in perspective though. Read the story down here, where NBC has reached an historic low point:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/ap_en_tv/us_nielsens_2
Re: NBC and Gannett
Actually CBS back in the early 80s was very interested in getting their hands on then WDVM-TV channel 9 but of course that never happened since Gannett got them. And for years ( again if one believes DCRTV ), ABC wanted to make WJLA their DC O&O ( had that happened when ABC still had WMAL radio..a return of WMAL-TV would had been possible ). That rumor gained power some years back when WJLA adopted the circle 7 logo and I believe they were seriously considering branding their news "ABC 7 Eyewitness News" ( WUSA had long dropped that news brand ) but that for some reason the switch to "Eyewitness News" didn't happened. Today WJLA being a ABC O&O doesn't seem likely now of course. One reason why I heard what made ABC less interested in WJLA was that Allbrition more/less said if you want WJLA, you must take the other stations in the group and ABC wasn't interested in making such stations as WHTM/Harrisburg, PA and WSET/Lynchburg-Roanoke, VA as ABC O&Os.
jal41 said:
Actually CBS back in the early 80s was very interested in getting their hands on then WDVM-TV channel 9 but of course that never happened since Gannett got them. And for years ( again if one believes DCRTV ), ABC wanted to make WJLA their DC O&O ( had that happened when ABC still had WMAL radio..a return of WMAL-TV would had been possible ). That rumor gained power some years back when WJLA adopted the circle 7 logo and I believe they were seriously considering branding their news "ABC 7 Eyewitness News" ( WUSA had long dropped that news brand ) but that for some reason the switch to "Eyewitness News" didn't happened. Today WJLA being a ABC O&O doesn't seem likely now of course. One reason why I heard what made ABC less interested in WJLA was that Allbrition more/less said if you want WJLA, you must take the other stations in the group and ABC wasn't interested in making such stations as WHTM/Harrisburg, PA and WSET/Lynchburg-Roanoke, VA as ABC O&Os.
However, Allbritton is an example of what one of
you said: a group whose stations are all affiliated
with the same network (ABC, in this case); besides
Harrisburg and Lynchburg, Allbritton owns KATV/7
Little Rock, KTUL/8 Tulsa, WCIV/4 Charleston, SC,
and at least part of the ABC 33/40 combination in
Birmingham.
A few years back, there were rumors that Gannett
wanted to buy NBC, but it never came to pass. I
live in the coverage area of one of Gannett's CBS
affiliates (WFMY), and I can tell you that folks around
here would scream bloody murder if WFMY became an
NBC o&o or even an affiliate; the station has been with
CBS since it first signed on in 1949 (and is the second-
oldest CBS affiliate south of Washington, right behind
WBTV Charlotte).
you said: a group whose stations are all affiliated
with the same network (ABC, in this case); besides
Harrisburg and Lynchburg, Allbritton owns KATV/7
Little Rock, KTUL/8 Tulsa, WCIV/4 Charleston, SC,
and at least part of the ABC 33/40 combination in
Birmingham.
A few years back, there were rumors that Gannett
wanted to buy NBC, but it never came to pass. I
live in the coverage area of one of Gannett's CBS
affiliates (WFMY), and I can tell you that folks around
here would scream bloody murder if WFMY became an
NBC o&o or even an affiliate; the station has been with
CBS since it first signed on in 1949 (and is the second-
oldest CBS affiliate south of Washington, right behind
WBTV Charlotte).
bpatrick said:
Another of those "NBC-friendly Gannett stations" in the top 20 not mentioned here - WKYC/3 Cleveland.
Which, of course, has actually been owned by NBC in the past...
So y'all don't have to keep adding to the list,
here are the Gannett NBC affiliates:
WGRZ/2 Buffalo, NY
WLBZ/2 Bangor, ME
WKYC/3 Cleveland
KSDK/5 St. Louis
WCSH/6 Portland, ME
KUSA/9 Denver
WBIR/10 Knoxville, TN
KARE/11 Minneapolis-St. Paul
WXIA/11 Atlanta
KPNX/12 Phoenix (isn't there also one
in Flagstaff?)
WTLV/12 Jacksonville, FL
Also, here are as many NBC affiliates that
joined the network during this period as I
can think of. How many do you think could
lose their NBC affiliation? (I'm not including stations that
went back to NBC or have moved to yet another
network, like WMAR Baltimore--CBS to NBC to ABC.)
WAFF Huntsville, AL (from ABC)
KNSD San Diego (from ABC)
WXIA Atlanta (from ABC)
WTHR Indianapolis (from ABC)
WVLA Baton Rouge (from ABC)
KARE Minneapolis-St. Paul (from independent)
WNYT Albany, NY (from CBS)
WCNC Charlotte (from independent)
KVLY Fargo, ND (from ABC)
KDLT Sioux Falls, SD (from ABC)
KWES Midland-Odessa, TX (from ABC)
WTOV Wheeling, WV-Steubenville, OH (from CBS)
here are the Gannett NBC affiliates:
WGRZ/2 Buffalo, NY
WLBZ/2 Bangor, ME
WKYC/3 Cleveland
KSDK/5 St. Louis
WCSH/6 Portland, ME
KUSA/9 Denver
WBIR/10 Knoxville, TN
KARE/11 Minneapolis-St. Paul
WXIA/11 Atlanta
KPNX/12 Phoenix (isn't there also one
in Flagstaff?)
WTLV/12 Jacksonville, FL
Also, here are as many NBC affiliates that
joined the network during this period as I
can think of. How many do you think could
lose their NBC affiliation? (I'm not including stations that
went back to NBC or have moved to yet another
network, like WMAR Baltimore--CBS to NBC to ABC.)
WAFF Huntsville, AL (from ABC)
KNSD San Diego (from ABC)
WXIA Atlanta (from ABC)
WTHR Indianapolis (from ABC)
WVLA Baton Rouge (from ABC)
KARE Minneapolis-St. Paul (from independent)
WNYT Albany, NY (from CBS)
WCNC Charlotte (from independent)
KVLY Fargo, ND (from ABC)
KDLT Sioux Falls, SD (from ABC)
KWES Midland-Odessa, TX (from ABC)
WTOV Wheeling, WV-Steubenville, OH (from CBS)
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