The Out-Of-Area Little Pistol Where You Are

[radiorob2.0]

Perhaps not completely out of the area but 560 WNSR Brentwood Tn operating on an sta 250 watts from wire antenna near se side of downtown Nashville. Good signal 35 miles sw of Nashville even a good copy at night....

Along those lines, the true test of QRP. Twenty-five years ago two WVLK Lexington, Kentucky (590 AM) engineers made a trip to Quincy to pick up a transmitter. While at a gas station north of Evansville, Indiana along I-64 one of the engineers called the transmitter site and told the engineer to lower power from 5kw to 1kw. The Pioneer car radio still had a signal. The transmitter engineer then continued to lower power. It was around 200 watts when the signal disappeared under the noise floor. So 200 watts covered about 200 miles.

 

[fybush]

Sometimes they show DA-2 when the parameters are the same because there are two proofs with different augmentations, so that the augmented pattern shape is different, and somehow the two ended up in different database records. I've sometimes seen this carried over inconsistently as U4 in WRTH, and later corrected to U3. There may be advantages to two separate records when upgrading, so make sure you don't try to correct it in the FCC files if it is advantageous to have two proofs for day and night. One example would be if you were in the 50% RSS or 25% RSS calculation and had to reduce 10% (50% RSS) or stay the same (25-50% RSS), rather than have to go to 25% or below RSS. This might mean the difference between being able to be 50 kW night and the 15-25 kW night common for upgrades with nearby former III-As and III-Bs and standard patterns that limit it to that.

All true...but more to the point, it's my understanding that CDBS no longer accepts "DA-1" filings. Any filing made electronically in CDBS within the last x number of years (at least 10, and maybe closer to 20 at this point) has to include separate day and night technical facilities, even if they're in fact identical. The remaining DA-1 and ND-U entries are grandfathered.

 

[icybluelake]

There are several AM stations that show up at night (eastern Iowa) pretty regularly and surprise me. Not that they're all particularly far away, or necessarily come in very strong, but it surprises me that they appear pretty regularly.

630 CFCO Chatham, ON
730 CKDM Dauphin, MB
920 CFRY Portage la Prairie, MB
930 WKY Oklahoma City
940 CJGX Yorkton, SK
980 WONE Dayton, OH
1050 CKSB St. Boniface, MB
1070 KHMO Hannibal, MO
1150 KWKY Des Moines, IA
1260 WSDZ Belleville, IL
1280 WGBF Evansville, IN (occasionally)
1380 KXFN St. Louis (former KWK)
1430 KZQZ St. Louis (former WIL)
1470 WMBD Peoria, IL

Maybe a few other Canadians that are not 50kW stations show up from time to time, and surprise me at how well they make it down here, like CFSL Weyburn, SK.

Seldom do I hear anything on FM that surprises me (either from a DX standpoint or format wise).

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Here's a few from the past:

Groundwave:

WVIC/WVFN 730
WERK 990
WLIP 1050
WAMM/WFLT 1420, considering the frequency

Skywave:

WING 1410
WAKR 1590
CFOR 1570

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Houston has a lot of them. KLVI Beamont is as strong as a local, and shows in Houston ratings. But additional stations from San Antonio - KTSA 550, KKYX 680, KSAH 720, and WOAI 1200 are all almost as strong as locals. I would add KLBJ 590 Austin to the mix, but it has peculiar interference from a Mexican station that makes it necessary to null the distant Mexican station. Raw signal strength on 590, though, is strong over Houston. Honorable mention goes to KLIF Dallas on 570, and WBAP Ft. Worth on 820, but the fact I have really good radios may taint the results, on average radios they probably aren't very good. But besides KLVI, the strongest non-local has to go to KCTA Corpus Christi on 1030. Too bad its format is bad - given a better format they could probably be a player in the Houston ratings. They are very strong, especially over the Southwest parts of the metro area.

 

[ftballfan]

Houston has a lot of them. KLVI Beamont is as strong as a local, and shows in Houston ratings. But additional stations from San Antonio - KTSA 550, KKYX 680, KSAH 720, and WOAI 1200 are all almost as strong as locals. I would add KLBJ 590 Austin to the mix, but it has peculiar interference from a Mexican station that makes it necessary to null the distant Mexican station. Raw signal strength on 590, though, is strong over Houston. Honorable mention goes to KLIF Dallas on 570, and WBAP Ft. Worth on 820, but the fact I have really good radios may taint the results, on average radios they probably aren't very good. But besides KLVI, the strongest non-local has to go to KCTA Corpus Christi on 1030. Too bad its format is bad - given a better format they could probably be a player in the Houston ratings. They are very strong, especially over the Southwest parts of the metro area.

Another thing about KCTA is that they're almost 1800 miles from WBZ and still have to shut off at night. WCPT is less than 800 miles from WBAP (and on a lower frequency to boot) and they can run at night.

 

[jd]

What amounts to a 750-mile protection rule for "clears" applies, even if WBZ's directional pattern does throw a variable into the equation. Surprisingly, though, WBZ isn't the real reason KCTA doesn't operate at night. There's also Mexico City and Guatemala to contend with. In fact, KCTA once received authorization to add night service with 1kW but failed to follow through with it; the cost of adding a tower and other equipment, the pattern that would be required and the projected financial return from night operation were factors in that decision. With pre-sunrise and post-sunset authority available to them they're really okay so far as the hours they can operate, albeit with greatly reduced power. The PSRA allows them to sign at 6:00 AM local time year round (CDT or not) with a little over 200 watts until sunrise.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

What amounts to a 750-mile protection rule for "clears" applies, even if WBZ's directional pattern does throw a variable into the equation. Surprisingly, though, WBZ isn't the real reason KCTA doesn't operate at night. There's also Mexico City and Guatemala to contend with. In fact, KCTA once received authorization to add night service with 1kW but failed to follow through with it; the cost of adding a tower and other equipment, the pattern that would be required and the projected financial return from night operation were factors in that decision. With pre-sunrise and post-sunset authority available to them they're really okay so far as the hours they can operate, albeit with greatly reduced power. The PSRA allows them to sign at 6:00 AM local time year round (CDT or not) with a little over 200 watts until sunrise.

I've asked this before and no one has answered. Is there somewhere in the FCC rules that says specifically that a Class B must be at least 750 miles away, or is it an FCC policy that is unpublished? There are Class Ds of the order of 200 watts at night now operating somewhat within 750 miles. And the newer skywave rules that include geomagnetic midpoint skywave calculations only show the 0.5 mV/m 50% skywave going out 400-500 miles or so in the northern parts of the country for a typical former Class I-A. New York City, for example is only about 500 miles from SE Michigan and the 0.5 mV/m barely gets into SE Michigan. So supposedly they could be squeezed in closer the further north you go. The Canada and Mexico Agreements require the old skywave prediction to be protected, which does usually figure out to be about 750 miles for a 50 kW nondirectional former Class I-A station.

Then you have to keep the Class D within 750 miles, or the Class B, under 25 uV/m at any point on the protected skywave contour on land within the country of origin, but that distance also changes with latitude for US stations.

 

[ftballfan]

Back on topic, WYGR has a decent signal in Allendale despite the electrical noise and being a 500W daytimer on 1530.

 

[charlestondxman]

It is the opposite in Charleston. 1420 from St. Augustine is an audible copy every day. Even the weak Jacksonville AMs like 1360 and 1280 come in here.

 

[1L6E6VHF]

Another thing about KCTA is that they're almost 1800 miles from WBZ and still have to shut off at night. WCPT is less than 800 miles from WBAP (and on a lower frequency to boot) and they can run at night.

Yeah, but WCPT is running a six-tower DA to protect WBAP's "official" skywave contour (if you are south or west of WCPT's array, they are a daytimer)

KCTA only has one stick. 

One would think KCTA could go DA-N with more towers, beaming out info the gulf, but perhaps there are Cubans of Mexicans (particularly on the Yucatan peninsula) that they would not be able to protect.

 

[cyberdad]

There are several AM stations that show up at night (eastern Iowa) pretty regularly and surprise me. Not that they're all particularly far away, or necessarily come in very strong, but it surprises me that they appear pretty regularly

When I was in college in Eastern Iowa in the late '60s, my list would've contained a number of similarities to yours. Most notably KHMO on 1070...all alone on the channel and aimed right at me. CFRY is also interesting to me. I never heard that one during my days there, but CKCY from Sault Sainte Marie was a regular on 920...despite semi-local pest WSUI adjacent. The 790 from Houston....then as KTHT....was also very dependable. (Adjacent KXIC was a daytimer then).

 

[Icangelp]

There are several AM stations that show up at night (eastern Iowa) pretty regularly and surprise me. Not that they're all particularly far away, or necessarily come in very strong, but it surprises me that they appear pretty regularly

When I was in college in Eastern Iowa in the late '60s, my list would've contained a number of similarities to yours. Most notably KHMO on 1070...all alone on the channel and aimed right at me. CFRY is also interesting to me. I never heard that one during my days there, but CKCY from Sault Sainte Marie was a regular on 920...despite semi-local pest WSUI adjacent. The 790 from Houston....then as KTHT....was also very dependable. (Adjacent KXIC was a daytimer then).

Well, since you brought up the 60's, one of my favorite top 40 AM stations back then was Iowa's very own, 940 KIOA. Don't know why, but the station's signal was decent in Indianapolis. I'm wondering if their night pattern was different back then.

 

[cyberdad]

Well, since you brought up the 60's, one of my favorite top 40 AM stations back then was Iowa's very own, 940 KIOA. Don't know why, but the station's signal was decent in Indianapolis. I'm wondering if their night pattern was different back then.

KIOA was arguably one of the best mid-market...or any size market...top 40 stations on the planet. I was a fan and regular listener myself. Their 5kw night pattern had...and may still have (as KPSZ)...a narrow lobe to the southeast. Most of the signal went to the west-northwest, however. But what they were sending to the southeast produced a very listenable signal where I was, 120 miles away. I would've been on a line to Indianapolis, so it could've easily made the hop to where you were.

BTW, KIOA continues on 93.3FM. A rather standard oldies/classic rock station. A shadow of its nearly 50-year run on 940. Local legend jock Dic Youngs...."The Old Youngster" held court there for more than 40 of those years. Mostly doing morning drive, but his Saturday night show, which he totally controlled, was an absolute "must-listen". (Apologies for the veer)

 

[jd]

Back to the little pistols...

Here in East Texas three of them stand out, all 5kW night and all from the same general area: 690 KGGF Coffeyville KS, 860 KKOW Pittsburg KS and 1430 KTBZ Tulsa. KGGF is actually audible at times during the day here, especially during the winter months; KKOW slams in around sunrise and sunset as well as all night. Over east of Tyler KTBZ is so strong at night that co-channel KEES in Gladewater has real problems both in their COL and in the much larger adjacent city of Longview, despite running 1kW.

 

[cyberdad]

In its day as KELI, the Tulsa 1430 was fairly regular here in the Chicago area....often sneaking in under or in between WIL (St. Louis) and WIRE (Indianapolis), which were more common.

 

[CalebC]

I'm not sure it counts as "little", it's definitely not the strongest station. I'd receive KTBT/Tulsa from Parsons, KS. 95 miles away. Somehow, if I put my antenna just right, it'd fade in and out by day, and be a clear signal(sometimes stereo) by night. It's a C2, but I'm 62 Miles away from the 60 dbu. Always thought it was weird.

 

[flytrap]

From Jackson, MS Some nights I hear the "Ragin Cajun" KLEB AM 1600 AM out of Golden Meadow, LA, playing cajun music and swamp pop. It's over 200 miles away but they only run 250 watts at night.

 

[JaxRadioFan]

CharlestonDx, I live about 24 miles from WAOC's transmitter. I have a only a fair signal even though I am in the same county. When I was in the Charleston area (Isle of Palms)I was scanning the AM band and I remember the scan stopping at 1420. I heard St. Augustine commercials and I thought no way! It actually comes in strong there than it does here at home. AM 1600 WZNZ booms into that area as well as I recall. I think it was the second strongest Jax area signal to WOKV 690. Can you get 930, 1050, 1220, 1460 there?

 

[charlestondxman]

All four come in, 1460 the weakest because of the local 1450. The others are OK. 930 and 1050 are most consistent.