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Mickey37
Guest
Finn said:
I think you're completely right, Finn. It's a new world, and we've all got to adapt. Those that don't will quikly find themselves left behind.
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The Sorry State of Boston Talk Radio
- Thread starter Pippi
- Start date
I think you're completely right, Finn. It's a new world, and we've all got to adapt. Those that don't will quikly find themselves left behind.
More on Google's moves in the mobile internet space:
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2007/11/google_open
"The other open project, which comprises a group of handset makers, carriers and silicon manufacturers, is dubbed the Open Handset Alliance. It centers around a new, Linux-based mobile operating system for smartphones, called Android. It's Google's long-awaited play for the mobile space.
"...But one thing is clear: Google is using its clout to pave new roads into two of the hottest technology destinations today: social networking and the mobile internet."
And of course, Pandora is already available on phones: http://www.pandora.com/on-the-go
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2007/11/google_open
"The other open project, which comprises a group of handset makers, carriers and silicon manufacturers, is dubbed the Open Handset Alliance. It centers around a new, Linux-based mobile operating system for smartphones, called Android. It's Google's long-awaited play for the mobile space.
"...But one thing is clear: Google is using its clout to pave new roads into two of the hottest technology destinations today: social networking and the mobile internet."
And of course, Pandora is already available on phones: http://www.pandora.com/on-the-go
J
jane grant
Guest
People crave a smart personality who can play good music and entertain them. I'm not talking about the Howard Stern approach (talking over a great version of the Jefferson Starship's Miracles played live is not great radio, no matter what Howard's huge fan base thinks) - if there is a "new" world of radio - if the internet is put on the
IPod and terrestrial radio and TV (and newspapers) start taking a backseat to these new information and entertainment portals, then all bets are off.
The suits that yell "Radio is a business" are doing exactly to radio what the record execs did to the music industry. They are destroying their business because they are greedy and are failing to respond to the needs and wants of the audience. They don't listen to us, but they want us to listen to them. Kind of like Howie Carr screening callers or Rush Limbaugh talking to plants. It is BORING. And the audience is responding.
"If you build it they will come" is the motto and theme of the film FIELD OF DREAMS
"IF you ruin it they will leave" should be the first thought among the bad business people who tell us radio is a business. Radio should be about information and entertainment. They have lost site of that. If they think coming onto this board and attacking me for speaking the truth will help them out of the mess they have created, they are sadly mistaken.
IPod and terrestrial radio and TV (and newspapers) start taking a backseat to these new information and entertainment portals, then all bets are off.
The suits that yell "Radio is a business" are doing exactly to radio what the record execs did to the music industry. They are destroying their business because they are greedy and are failing to respond to the needs and wants of the audience. They don't listen to us, but they want us to listen to them. Kind of like Howie Carr screening callers or Rush Limbaugh talking to plants. It is BORING. And the audience is responding.
"If you build it they will come" is the motto and theme of the film FIELD OF DREAMS
"IF you ruin it they will leave" should be the first thought among the bad business people who tell us radio is a business. Radio should be about information and entertainment. They have lost site of that. If they think coming onto this board and attacking me for speaking the truth will help them out of the mess they have created, they are sadly mistaken.
M
Mickey37
Guest
The suits in the biz that aren't embracing new media seem to think the internet is a fad, that radio will survive it. I think they're wrong.jane grant said:
Regarding the quoted section above, I generally stay away from those who think their opinions are "the truth." Opinions are opinions, and until someone comes up with a crystal ball that can see the future, that's all they are.
People speak "the truth" about what their own opinions are. Most of them don't like to admit that their opinion just might be wrong.
Mickey, I had the same reaction to that quote.
Too bad because the first half of the post was pretty good and had a great point, which is that the radio business model is changing just like the music industry and the execs are not responding imaginatively or quickly.
Where Grant lost me was "they are destroying their business because they are greedy..."
This is an educated guess presented as fact. Wouldn't get by any junior-high English composition teacher that I ever had, that's for sure (public schools)....
Too bad because the first half of the post was pretty good and had a great point, which is that the radio business model is changing just like the music industry and the execs are not responding imaginatively or quickly.
Where Grant lost me was "they are destroying their business because they are greedy..."
This is an educated guess presented as fact. Wouldn't get by any junior-high English composition teacher that I ever had, that's for sure (public schools)....
Finn said:
Of course they will. They're adapting to the new media even now. They run web sites, streaming, music purchasing and podcasting. IOW, they're doing what radio has always done to insure its survival: adapting. I also have a feeling that the adaptation will probably kill their old business model, namely transmitters, towers and large amounts of real estate. AM radio will probably die before the next two decades are done. AM's current demos are 55+, with virtually no growth at all in any demos younger than that, and AM-HD has too many problems with propagation, mutual interference between stations and interference from you-name-it to make any difference. With few exceptions AM radio, even in major markets and even in places where AM radio still dominates, is a hard sell to advertisers, because even those with large audiences have crummy demos. Even FM radio is probably doomed, although it will take longer. The large number of alternatives to radio, which young people have grown up with and never been without, are going to start taking a toll when they age into the desirable 25-54 demo. They don't have the same radio habit that previous generations did, and within a decade or so that will start translating into a steep drop in the saleable demos that radio has always had. If they don't adapt, and start that adaptation now, they will be irrelevant and dead. Some people I know at Entercom have already heard David Field state openly that Entercom is no longer a radio company, but a provider of content, and that's the paradigm shift which must occur to keep radio companies from stagnating themselves out of business.
And BTW, the NAB is even more irrelevant than radio's old business model. The NAB is so utterly out of touch with the needs of broadcasters that many large radio and TV companies have dropped their memberships.
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Mickey37
Guest
dumber than a box of hair said:
I haven't heard it said any better than that.
dumber than a box of hair said:
Thanks for the reply.
Re AM - If AM's current demos are 55+, isn't a twenty-year horizon a generous construction?
Re NAB - not surprised by your comment - industry groups are primarily for networking opportunities (for vendors) and shopping vendors (for corporate types). what struck me was that NAB's core clients (CC, Entercom execs) are the companies being criticized in the article...
And, I suppose this is all better suited to other boards on this site, so my apologies to everyone for not being focused specifically on Boston radio.
AM radio will probably die before the next two decades are done. AM's current demos are 55+, with virtually no growth at all in any demos younger than that,
It could be true if AM listener numbers weren't dynamic, but they are. The country is aging fast, and more people are moving into the 35+ demo than are moving out of it (dying.) The median age in the USA must be around 36 by now.
It would seem that the younger skewing FM music stations are in bigger trouble than the major market News/Talk/Sports AMs, who have listeners aging into them, not out of them.
I remember the mantra in the early 70s that newspapers didn't have a reader under 30 If this was a static situation, there would hardly be a newspaper reader left in the US 40 years later, but there still are. Newspapers are being done in by the new technology, but their problems are unique to the newspaper industry.
and AM-HD has too many problems with propagation, mutual interference between stations and interference from you-name-it to make any difference.
AM-HD, like AM stereo before it, is something nobody but radio buffs cares about.
With few exceptions AM radio, even in major markets and even in places where AM radio still dominates, is a hard sell to advertisers, because even those with large audiences have crummy demos.
Not really. It is the advertising business which is adapting, since older demos are who you have to pitch to to survive, because that's where the people are, especially the people with money. Even the famous F18-34 golden demo actually only applied to advertisers of packaged goods. Entirely new advertising categories were created by cable tv, and have filtered down to both radio and alphabet television (which also has the same aging demo situation as radio.)
Even FM radio is probably doomed, although it will take longer. The large number of alternatives to radio, which young people have grown up with and never been without, are going to start taking a toll when they age into the desirable 25-54 demo. They don't have the same radio habit that previous generations did, and within a decade or so that will start translating into a steep drop in the saleable demos that radio has always had.
Using the year 2000 as a benchmark, since the rise of Digital Audio (120+ million sets in use), high speed internet and streaming, and satellite radio, the percentage of people 12+ in the US considered traditional radio listeners has actually gone up slightly, and despite up and down years in between, has stayed at a remarkably steady 70% (230 million.) And, with some estimates placing up to 90 percent of terrestial radio listenership in automobiles (w/425 million radios), and with satellite and DA not running what you might call hyper-local content (News, weather, traffic, local issue talk) this would seem to bode well for the forseeable future, especially for big full-service AM and FMs.
Greater Media just paid $100 mil for a cluster in Charlotte, NC, market #33. The folks who put out the cash don't seem to think that traditional broadcast has a short shelf-life.
If they don't adapt, and start that adaptation now, they will be irrelevant and dead. Some people I know at Entercom have already heard David Field state openly that Entercom is no longer a radio company, but a provider of content, and that's the paradigm shift which must occur to keep radio companies from stagnating themselves out of business.
Stations are already adapting, so what is the point? All the big groups (and some of the minor ones) have already embraced the internet, changed their sales model from 'spot' to across-the-board multi-media campaigns (think Shaw's deal with Entercom) and there's no reason to think they won't keep adapting if it suits their purposes. They may not immediately jump on something new just because it's new, but will do what they have to do to stay relevant and viable in the marketplace. Those that won't, or can't afford, to adapt, will go away, but not the medium in general or the major players in particular.
Interestingly, the only electronic medium that has a business model that doesn't work is one of the most hi-tech innovations of them all, satellite radio. Although sat radio was a cure for which there was no known disease, like the rest of the entertainment/information spectrum, they'll find a way to eventually make it work, since there is too much money already at stake for them to let it fail. Sooner or later, they'll find a way to keep the service viable.
I think you can keep those presets set for the rest of your life, and they'll still a station there when you press the button.
Regards.
TSB
It could be true if AM listener numbers weren't dynamic, but they are. The country is aging fast, and more people are moving into the 35+ demo than are moving out of it (dying.) The median age in the USA must be around 36 by now.
It would seem that the younger skewing FM music stations are in bigger trouble than the major market News/Talk/Sports AMs, who have listeners aging into them, not out of them.
I remember the mantra in the early 70s that newspapers didn't have a reader under 30 If this was a static situation, there would hardly be a newspaper reader left in the US 40 years later, but there still are. Newspapers are being done in by the new technology, but their problems are unique to the newspaper industry.
and AM-HD has too many problems with propagation, mutual interference between stations and interference from you-name-it to make any difference.
AM-HD, like AM stereo before it, is something nobody but radio buffs cares about.
With few exceptions AM radio, even in major markets and even in places where AM radio still dominates, is a hard sell to advertisers, because even those with large audiences have crummy demos.
Not really. It is the advertising business which is adapting, since older demos are who you have to pitch to to survive, because that's where the people are, especially the people with money. Even the famous F18-34 golden demo actually only applied to advertisers of packaged goods. Entirely new advertising categories were created by cable tv, and have filtered down to both radio and alphabet television (which also has the same aging demo situation as radio.)
Even FM radio is probably doomed, although it will take longer. The large number of alternatives to radio, which young people have grown up with and never been without, are going to start taking a toll when they age into the desirable 25-54 demo. They don't have the same radio habit that previous generations did, and within a decade or so that will start translating into a steep drop in the saleable demos that radio has always had.
Using the year 2000 as a benchmark, since the rise of Digital Audio (120+ million sets in use), high speed internet and streaming, and satellite radio, the percentage of people 12+ in the US considered traditional radio listeners has actually gone up slightly, and despite up and down years in between, has stayed at a remarkably steady 70% (230 million.) And, with some estimates placing up to 90 percent of terrestial radio listenership in automobiles (w/425 million radios), and with satellite and DA not running what you might call hyper-local content (News, weather, traffic, local issue talk) this would seem to bode well for the forseeable future, especially for big full-service AM and FMs.
Greater Media just paid $100 mil for a cluster in Charlotte, NC, market #33. The folks who put out the cash don't seem to think that traditional broadcast has a short shelf-life.
If they don't adapt, and start that adaptation now, they will be irrelevant and dead. Some people I know at Entercom have already heard David Field state openly that Entercom is no longer a radio company, but a provider of content, and that's the paradigm shift which must occur to keep radio companies from stagnating themselves out of business.
Stations are already adapting, so what is the point? All the big groups (and some of the minor ones) have already embraced the internet, changed their sales model from 'spot' to across-the-board multi-media campaigns (think Shaw's deal with Entercom) and there's no reason to think they won't keep adapting if it suits their purposes. They may not immediately jump on something new just because it's new, but will do what they have to do to stay relevant and viable in the marketplace. Those that won't, or can't afford, to adapt, will go away, but not the medium in general or the major players in particular.
Interestingly, the only electronic medium that has a business model that doesn't work is one of the most hi-tech innovations of them all, satellite radio. Although sat radio was a cure for which there was no known disease, like the rest of the entertainment/information spectrum, they'll find a way to eventually make it work, since there is too much money already at stake for them to let it fail. Sooner or later, they'll find a way to keep the service viable.
I think you can keep those presets set for the rest of your life, and they'll still a station there when you press the button.
Regards.
TSB
D
Dark Knight
Guest
I wouldn't sound the death knell for AM's just yet. The two biggest billers in Boston are WBZ and WEEI, not to mention the Red Sox on WRKO.
A
argytunes
Guest
WBZ and WEEI are blessed with excellent frequencies. Unfortunately, not every AM radio station is so lucky! 
It's frustrating to tune into a radio talk show or conversation when you're constantly losing the signal!
I suppose I could offer another new programming idea that's not present in the market right now. But after being told that an FM Soundtrack/Film Score format wouldn't work (by others who are convinced no one would buy it)...I'm reluctant to toss out a 2nd idea for a format.
However, I DO KNOW that it's not being done at any radio station in New England. :
argytunes
It's frustrating to tune into a radio talk show or conversation when you're constantly losing the signal!
I suppose I could offer another new programming idea that's not present in the market right now. But after being told that an FM Soundtrack/Film Score format wouldn't work (by others who are convinced no one would buy it)...I'm reluctant to toss out a 2nd idea for a format.
However, I DO KNOW that it's not being done at any radio station in New England. :
argytunes
M
merlin843
Guest
speaking of billing, WBCN used to be king in this region, was it not? How are they doing these days vs. RKO,
and with the Patriots (and then without).
How are they billing post-Howard Stern and why didn't the P.D. at the time prepare the station for the inevitable - either Howard or The Patriots going to a better station (or better deal, depends on yer perspective)
and with the Patriots (and then without).
How are they billing post-Howard Stern and why didn't the P.D. at the time prepare the station for the inevitable - either Howard or The Patriots going to a better station (or better deal, depends on yer perspective)
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