• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

The Voice of America...English(soon to be)not spoken here?

>
> The Voice of America seems set on cutting out much of it's
> English-language broadcasts.
>

This is because the people VOA needs to reach have a lessing usage of shortwave and because they do not speak English well.

The VOA is not a service for American expats abroad. It is intended to help non-Americans understand the USA, and this is best done in the native langauge of these people. This is the reason why services like Radio Sawa in Arabic have been developed.
 
Opportunity Lost

One of the reasons that VOA should continue its English language broadcast is to help people around the world learn to speak better English. I have often heard people from other countries talk about listening to American radio and watching American TV so they could learn how to speak better colloquial English, and pick up American slang.

English is fast becoming the language of business. Being able to speak the language more fluently would be a huge benefit to business people in smaller countries. Their ability to understand and express complex concepts relating to business, economic development, marketing, and the inevitable problems that are created along with prosperity would be invaluable as they develop a presence on the world stage. The VOA English language service can help them learn the language better, as well as providing information they may not get from other sources.
 
Remember Willis Conover's Jazz on VOA?

> One of the reasons that VOA should continue its English
> language broadcast is to help people around the world learn
> to speak better English. I have often heard people from
> other countries talk about listening to American radio and
> watching American TV so they could learn how to speak better
> colloquial English, and pick up American slang.

"Also, the governments of these countries thought jazz was dangerous and subversive. But the people in these countries loved jazz. Many people became jazz musicians themselves. They first learned how to play this music by listening to Willis Conover’s “Music USA” program."

> English is fast becoming the language of business. Being
> able to speak the language more fluently would be a huge
> benefit to business people in smaller countries. Their
> ability to understand and express complex concepts relating
> to business, economic development, marketing, and the
> inevitable problems that are created along with prosperity
> would be invaluable as they develop a presence on the world
> stage. The VOA English language service can help them learn
> the language better, as well as providing information they
> may not get from other sources.

Back in high school and college, I used to tune in
Willis Conover on his VOA jazz program,
to gain an appreciation of this uniquely
American art form. I credit VOA and the late
Dave Dixon (late-night host of channel 51)
with making me a jazz fan before short-lived
jazz station WBUS came along.

I checked out the VOA web site recently, and
it looks like you're more likely to hear (c)rap
than jazz these days. Ugh. Rather than export
our culture, we're exhibiting our lack of it now.

"Willis Conover was not a jazz musician. However, many people believe that he did more to spread the sound of jazz than any person in music history. For more than forty years Conover brought jazz to people around world on his VOA music programs. An estimated one hundred million people heard his programs. He helped make jazz music an international language." ... from the VOA web site (includes MP3):
http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/archive/2005-09/2005-09-24-voa1.cfm

73s<P ID="signature">______________
"If Thomas Edison invented electric light today, Dan Rather would report it on CBS News as "candle making industry threatened"... Newt Gingrich</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by 954 on 04/07/06 06:46 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> The Voice of America seems set on cutting out much of it's
> English-language broadcasts.

Apparently they've cut out the English-language punctuation lessons, too, otherwise you might have written "its" correctly. ("It's" is a contraction of "it is", not the possessive of "it".)

In fact, it would only take them a few seconds to teach the basic rule:

pronoun -> possessive

he -> his
she -> her
it -> its

NO APOSTROPHE'S!
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
 
Re: Remember Willis Conover's Jazz on VOA?

> > One of the reasons that VOA should continue its English
> > language broadcast is to help people around the world
> learn
> > to speak better English. I have often heard people from
> > other countries talk about listening to American radio and
>
> > watching American TV so they could learn how to speak
> better
> > colloquial English, and pick up American slang.
=====================================================================

With the limited foreign travel I've had( Uncle Sam sent me to Germany),
I got the impression that many folks who have picked up English as a second language have honed it from not only VOA, but also listening to the BBC and BFBS, as many of them had developed a bit of a "British accent" when they spoke the King's English.

Regarding American jazz being introduced via VOA, I'm sure that's true.
Another prominent source has been Armed(American) Forces radio.
It being a broadcast source not aimed at "local nationals", but yet has a large "shadow audience".<P ID="signature">______________
"What's That?" "French Horns!"

</P>
 
<font color=navy>
> > The Voice of America seems set on cutting out much of it's
>
> > English-language broadcasts.
>
> Apparently they've cut out the English-language punctuation
> lessons, too, otherwise you might have written "its"
> correctly. ("It's" is a contraction of "it is", not the
> possessive of "it".)

You ought to move on to more grammar rules, Westy.

Some people (and I DON'T mean anyone specifically,
just the great unwashed in general) will never
get apostrophes right.

So many ignoramuses, so little time.

I don't think I've ever written this story down:

Almost 20 years ago, I was on my first tech
writing project, writing user manuals as a
contractor for a big multinational company
you have all heard of, and I was looking at
the official company bulletin board at the
end of the hall, on break.

I was standing next to the editor I was working
with and laughed when I saw a grammar error
on one of the posted company press releases.
I turned and told her "look at that" thinking
she'd laugh, too. Nope.

I told her what was wrong and she said she
doesn't notice mistakes when she's not
editing. I was appalled, but I didn't let on.

Hell, I can't ignore grammar mistakes, even
if it's on a billboard or in a news story.
I don't think she was a good fit for an editor
job. (I don't think she liked it. She had been
a programmer and went on to something else later.)

73s
<P ID="signature">______________
"Certainly in the next 50 years we shall see a woman president, perhaps sooner than you think. A woman can and should be able to do any political job that a man can do."... Richard M. Nixon</P>
</font>
 
Voice of America SPECIAL English

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/about_special_english.cfm

Just heard the cutbacks at the IBB are so deep, that they are talking about reducing Marti to a 16 Hour Broadcast day.



> The VOA is not a service for American expats abroad. It is
> intended to help non-Americans understand the USA, and this
> is best done in the native langauge of these people. This is
> the reason why services like Radio Sawa in Arabic have been
> developed.
 
Re: Voice of America SPECIAL English

htt> p://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/about_special_english.cfm
>
>
> Just heard the cutbacks at the IBB are so deep, that they
> are talking about reducing Marti to a 16 Hour Broadcast day.

That would seem reasonable. There is no justification for running the program at times when listeners in Cuba would not ordinarily listen to radio, making them subject to arrest or sanctions if detected.
 
Where are you, Edward R. Murrow, now that we need you?

(From the N.Y. Times obit of Edward R. Murrow, April 28, 1965)

From Washington, he directed the output of prodigious amounts of news and propaganda, sending the nation's message in manifold forms to all the nations of the earth. He emphasized plain speaking and straightforward reporting in 789 weekly hours of broadcasting and in the daily 10,000-word wireless file of news to newspapers in 100 cities overseas.

Mr. Murrow aimed at putting a more professional emphasis on Voice of America broadcasts, with shorter, crisper reports. Because he believed that explained verity was more persuasive than sheer propaganda, he told agency writers to report the facts in perspective, the bad as well as the good.

He defended the agency's policy of distributing news of racial flareups in this country, saying such events could not be kept a secret and arguing that there was no choice but to present the facts with balanced interpretation.

"We cannot make good news out of bad practice," he said with typical pith when Senators criticized his staff for not depicting things as generally rosy.

<P ID="signature">______________
"What's That?" "French Horns!"

</P>
 
> Apparently they've cut out the English-language punctuation
> lessons, too, otherwise you might have written "its"
> correctly. ("It's" is a contraction of "it is", not the
> possessive of "it".)

hmmmmmm.....

You might want to check your text books on that one. We teach in the schools that both are correct.<P ID="signature">______________
http://www.RichardJDalton.com</P>
 
> You might want to check your text books on that one. We
> teach in the schools that both are correct.

Are you kidding? "Elements of Style" indicates apostrophe is mandatory for contractions.
 
> > Apparently they've cut out the English-language
> punctuation
> > lessons, too, otherwise you might have written "its"
> > correctly. ("It's" is a contraction of "it is", not the
> > possessive of "it".)
>
> You might want to check your text books on that one. We
> teach in the schools that both are correct.

More evidence of the downfall and decreptitude
of the public schools, then.

I'd like to see what book says that both are correct.
And what school district is so f***ed-up that they
accept such a book!

Some foolish people even say that "ain't" is
correct usage because it is in some dictionaries --
ignoring the fact that dictionaries report usage.
Even when the usage is incorrect.

73s<P ID="signature">______________
"Live long and prosper -- without government interference!"
...Mr. Spock, before the NBC censors got to him, stardate 1966</P>
 
It's "its" when it belongs to It...

The "it's" vs. "its" debate rages on. Correct current English usage is "it's" as the contraction for "it is" or "it has", and "its" as the posessive form meaning "belonging to it".

Now that I've expounded on the current state of affairs, let me muddy the waters again.

English, what a wonderful, sensible language...
 
> > Apparently they've cut out the English-language
> punctuation
> > lessons, too, otherwise you might have written "its"
> > correctly. ("It's" is a contraction of "it is", not the
> > possessive of "it".)
>
> hmmmmmm.....
>
> You might want to check your text books on that one. We
> teach in the schools that both are correct.

I cannot (or can't) agree with you on that, Richard.

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

That URL includes a specific example about when "its" (sans apostrophe) is correct.

(It also has a marvelous gallery of signs and the like where the poor apostrophe is misplaced, sometimes with unintentionally funny results.)<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Mind your P's and Q's

> > You might want to check your text books on that one. We
> > teach in the schools that both are correct.
>
> I cannot (or can't) agree with you on that, Richard.
>
> http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

But there *is* a mistake on that page. It says:
Apostrophes are NEVER ever used to denote plurals!

Tell them to mind their P's and Q's.

That's when you use an apostrophe to denote plurals.

I assume that this would apply to other characters, like
2's, 4's, and *'s.

<img src=http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/images/example15.jpg>

I wonder how these guy's decided where
to u's the apostrophe's, since all six
word's were plural's with s's?

73s<P ID="signature">______________
"Live long and prosper -- without government interference!"
...Mr. Spock, before the NBC censors got to him, stardate 1966</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by 954 on 04/10/06 01:54 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Mind your Ps and Qs

> But there *is* a mistake on that page. It says:
> Apostrophes are NEVER ever used to denote plurals!
>
> Tell them to mind their P's and Q's.
>
> That's when you use an apostrophe to denote plurals.
>
> I assume that this would apply to other characters, like
> 2's, 4's, and *'s.

Not every authority agrees on that:

<a target="_blank" href=http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=499296>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=499296</a>

One source says "Mind your Ps and Qs" (no apostrophes) is correct, while another source says that "Mind your P's and Q's" (with apostrophes) would be correct.

In the interest of keeping things simple, though, I'd suggest that the apostrophe should never be used to form the plural of anything -- except with abbreviations where the exact syntax and capitalization of each letter is important, such as computer programming code and chemistry formulas. But even then, you should first try to rewrite your sentence to avoid this, because trying to pluralize something that isn't a word is going to look awkward no matter how you do it.
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
 
Mind your P's and Q's

> > Tell them to mind their P's and Q's.
> >
> > That's when you use an apostrophe to denote plurals.
> >
> > I assume that this would apply to other characters, like
> > 2's, 4's, and *'s.
>
> Not every authority agrees on that:
>
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=499296

That's nice.

The article in Google answers is by someone who
signed up to answer questions for a fee. You
could do the same.

Please note what Google says:
<blockquote>Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice.</blockquote>
The web site he cited is owned by a Canadian tech writing company.

One person's opinion. Does that make him an authority?

I'm sure I could find a site that says "ain't" is OK.

That doesn't make it so.

73s<P ID="signature">______________
"When we got into office, the thing that surprised me most was to find that things were just as bad as we'd been saying they were." ... John F. Kennedy</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by 954 on 04/10/06 11:04 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Mind your P's and Q's

> One person's opinion. Does that make him an authority?

I didn't see any "opinions" posted. Relevant guidelines from various grammatical authorities were posted, with full credit given to each. What's wrong with that?
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
 
Re: Mind your P's and Q's

> > One person's opinion. Does that make him an authority?
>
> I didn't see any "opinions" posted. Relevant guidelines
> from various grammatical authorities were posted, with full
> credit given to each. What's wrong with that?

Read it again.

Why do the guidelines of a technical writer in Canada
(owner of the site he quotes) have more authority
than those of a technical writer in Florida?

This is not France, in which a government entity
proclaims proper usage.

If you show some usage examples cited by an
institutional authority (on par with the AP
stylebook or the Chicago book) I may change
my mind about it being acceptable.

73s<P ID="signature">______________
"I am free of all prejudices.
I hate everyone equally." ... W. C. Fields</P>
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom