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These are the songs you hear in church
- Thread starter vchimpanzee
- Start date
It can. It doesn't have to.Silkie said:
Music doesn't matter.
I'm sorry, but I must disagree. Music does matter. Music has the ability to touch your spirit in a way that the spoken word alone can not. Music is a heart expressing itself. I play music on Acustic Piano, Keybords, Clarinet, and Sax, plus sing, a bit. I've written music, both instrumental and music with lyrics (both secular and Christian), led praise bands, and directed choirs so I know of what I speak.
Granted, there are some folks who have a tin ear, thay basically hear music in the service as something that justs fills space and takes up time before the preacher preaches. They don't care if you have bag pipes, gazoos, a symphony orchestra, or a heavy metal band playing hymns or praise music for those people the music just doesn't matter. I feel bad for those folks as they've missed such a blessing that came from God, the ability to allow music to move your spirit into the heights of worshipful expression to Our Lord.
The problem becomes that as music is so very personal how do you express your heart to God with music that hits your ear as noise or as being disrespectful to the worship of the Lord?
An example, I love Jazz. I like to hear it, I like to play it, yet I heard a jazz version of What a Friend We Have in Jesus and as much as I like swing music and jazz that version of that hymn sounded very disrepectful to my ear. On the other hand I've heard some great praise arrangements of old hymns that sound great and sounded to my heart very respectful of the original hymn, yet there may be others who'd not hear that praise arrangment as being respectful and honoring to the Lord. One man's music is another man's noise.
My guess is, most white folks would not be comfortable with Urban Gospel music being used in their church. It's simply not a style of music that most whites relate to, but that doesn't mean a mainly black oriented church shouldn't use Urban Gospel music in their service. That black congregation, on the other hand, might not be able to relate to hearing Bill and Gloria Gather's country gospel quartet style of music in their church. That's OK, God didn't make us all vanilla or chocolate. Some are strawberry, others butter pecan, rocky road, etc, etc. We all worship the same Lord, Jesus Christ.
The difference is how we express that faith and offer up our worship to God. In some churches people will do intrepretive dancing as part of their expression of worship. Personally, all that prancing around doesn't help me worship, it is fun to watch, but I could be just as blessed without all that dancing around, but the people doing it seemed to be blessed and enjoy their community worship time (their Sunday Service) a bit more by expressing their hearts to the Lord via intrepretive dance (this was at a Charismatic church I used to go to about 18 years ago).
In one sense I see the churches like radio stations. If you lived in a market with only one radio station and none others, from nearby cities were able to be picked up, that station probably is going to offer a more varied type of programming as they are trying to please everyone. On the other hand, when there are a bunch of radio stations, they can target a segment of the local population and program their station for that specific demo group (jazz, oldies, rock, metal, country, urban, talk, news/talk, etc). Church can be like that, in a town where there is only one church, they might have to offer all types of music so that all could come and be able to speak with their heart to God via the music. Most places have bunches of churches so many churches target a certain group. One is going after the 18-30 crowd, another is family oriented, another is elder friendly, one is very traditional, another is very modern, one is targeting a working class neighborhood, another is targeting a well to do community, etc, etc.
So if the music at your present church doesn't express your heart towards the Lord, then go church shopping and visit some of the other churches in your area. Find a church that expresses your heart, put down roots and be active, not just a pew sitter, but get involved serving both your local church and your community for Christ. Of course it goes without saying that the church, no matter what type of music used, must be a Biblically oriented, Christ centered church.
I go to church on Sunday to worship my Lord. I grew up Catholic back at a time when the Mass was still being said in Latin. You couldn't understand a word he was saying (unless you spoke Latin). The only English spoken was the sermon. That really took away from being able to worship fully. It was one reason Martin Luther wanted the Mass to be in the language of the people, in his case German. Music is much the same way. Some music is like a foriegn langugage to me and it doesn't speak to me or for me. Now I like most forms of music so the issue isn't as big of a problem for me as it probably is for some others, but music expresses the heart, so it is very possible that serious believers, who are not just being contrary may have difficulties in worshipping with a different type of music than what they generally use to speak for their heart. It literally could be like a foriegn language to them.
However, I will conceed that yes there are those who are seeking entertainment while in church and may be picky about the music, because it's not the style they find entertaining or others who need something to complain about.
On the other hand, I do believe that a serious follower of Christ should be able to make a go of it, when visiting a church (traveling so not home church) and be respectful of the music being used at that church and still offer your worship to the Lord even if the music doesn't speak for your heart. God knows your heart and will know or understand that you are being faithful in your worship.
I'm sorry, but I must disagree. Music does matter. Music has the ability to touch your spirit in a way that the spoken word alone can not. Music is a heart expressing itself. I play music on Acustic Piano, Keybords, Clarinet, and Sax, plus sing, a bit. I've written music, both instrumental and music with lyrics (both secular and Christian), led praise bands, and directed choirs so I know of what I speak.
Granted, there are some folks who have a tin ear, thay basically hear music in the service as something that justs fills space and takes up time before the preacher preaches. They don't care if you have bag pipes, gazoos, a symphony orchestra, or a heavy metal band playing hymns or praise music for those people the music just doesn't matter. I feel bad for those folks as they've missed such a blessing that came from God, the ability to allow music to move your spirit into the heights of worshipful expression to Our Lord.
The problem becomes that as music is so very personal how do you express your heart to God with music that hits your ear as noise or as being disrespectful to the worship of the Lord?
An example, I love Jazz. I like to hear it, I like to play it, yet I heard a jazz version of What a Friend We Have in Jesus and as much as I like swing music and jazz that version of that hymn sounded very disrepectful to my ear. On the other hand I've heard some great praise arrangements of old hymns that sound great and sounded to my heart very respectful of the original hymn, yet there may be others who'd not hear that praise arrangment as being respectful and honoring to the Lord. One man's music is another man's noise.
My guess is, most white folks would not be comfortable with Urban Gospel music being used in their church. It's simply not a style of music that most whites relate to, but that doesn't mean a mainly black oriented church shouldn't use Urban Gospel music in their service. That black congregation, on the other hand, might not be able to relate to hearing Bill and Gloria Gather's country gospel quartet style of music in their church. That's OK, God didn't make us all vanilla or chocolate. Some are strawberry, others butter pecan, rocky road, etc, etc. We all worship the same Lord, Jesus Christ.
The difference is how we express that faith and offer up our worship to God. In some churches people will do intrepretive dancing as part of their expression of worship. Personally, all that prancing around doesn't help me worship, it is fun to watch, but I could be just as blessed without all that dancing around, but the people doing it seemed to be blessed and enjoy their community worship time (their Sunday Service) a bit more by expressing their hearts to the Lord via intrepretive dance (this was at a Charismatic church I used to go to about 18 years ago).
In one sense I see the churches like radio stations. If you lived in a market with only one radio station and none others, from nearby cities were able to be picked up, that station probably is going to offer a more varied type of programming as they are trying to please everyone. On the other hand, when there are a bunch of radio stations, they can target a segment of the local population and program their station for that specific demo group (jazz, oldies, rock, metal, country, urban, talk, news/talk, etc). Church can be like that, in a town where there is only one church, they might have to offer all types of music so that all could come and be able to speak with their heart to God via the music. Most places have bunches of churches so many churches target a certain group. One is going after the 18-30 crowd, another is family oriented, another is elder friendly, one is very traditional, another is very modern, one is targeting a working class neighborhood, another is targeting a well to do community, etc, etc.
So if the music at your present church doesn't express your heart towards the Lord, then go church shopping and visit some of the other churches in your area. Find a church that expresses your heart, put down roots and be active, not just a pew sitter, but get involved serving both your local church and your community for Christ. Of course it goes without saying that the church, no matter what type of music used, must be a Biblically oriented, Christ centered church.
I go to church on Sunday to worship my Lord. I grew up Catholic back at a time when the Mass was still being said in Latin. You couldn't understand a word he was saying (unless you spoke Latin). The only English spoken was the sermon. That really took away from being able to worship fully. It was one reason Martin Luther wanted the Mass to be in the language of the people, in his case German. Music is much the same way. Some music is like a foriegn langugage to me and it doesn't speak to me or for me. Now I like most forms of music so the issue isn't as big of a problem for me as it probably is for some others, but music expresses the heart, so it is very possible that serious believers, who are not just being contrary may have difficulties in worshipping with a different type of music than what they generally use to speak for their heart. It literally could be like a foriegn language to them.
However, I will conceed that yes there are those who are seeking entertainment while in church and may be picky about the music, because it's not the style they find entertaining or others who need something to complain about.
On the other hand, I do believe that a serious follower of Christ should be able to make a go of it, when visiting a church (traveling so not home church) and be respectful of the music being used at that church and still offer your worship to the Lord even if the music doesn't speak for your heart. God knows your heart and will know or understand that you are being faithful in your worship.
If going to church is what makes a follower of Christ faithful, then I can only cite from Scriptures, "When we are unfaithful He remains faithful". On Judgment Day I assure you that I will be the one standing before the Throne of the Almighty, clinging to Christ with both hands, and in my defense I will be saying like a liberal at the country club, "I'm with Him.". My Redeemer is strong, and He will plead my case. He can't deny Himself, for one thing, He promised that nothing could snatch me out of His hand, that wicked one toucheth me not; and we are all going to sing a new song anyway. Every word of that from Scripture, and I didn't go to church to hear it from the pulpit - not saying that anything is wrong with church attendance. Thank you.
The Radio-Info Boards is probably not the ideal venue to try and have a big academic discussion of religion and faith. However we have gotton to this place because some radio station choose today to make "the music of the church".... or would it be better to say: "the music of religion" into programming.
Programming to SERVE the audience. Programming to DRAW the audience.
And when you look at the messages in this thread where people begin to question or justify the music that is used today in church.... in worship... I see people getting into debates over whether the CHURCH selects it's music to SERVE the attendees, or is the music selectd to DRAW the largest number of attendees?
And maybe the smartest answer, the best answer to those questions is: YES.
Music-centric people probably need to find themselves a theology-centric person they find the can actually talk to to help them understand those people who camp on the other side of the chasm. And the Theology-centric people probably need to reach out to understand the logic of the people camped over on the music side of the chasm.
As a minor participant in a major battle in a major church organization in this country, I can tell you we have issues that have been boiing on the front burner for 30 years tied to issues on the middle burner for 70 years tied to other issues on the back burner for 100 years.
Anybody who thinks they can SOLVE the worship-and-music struggles in two or three days on a website discussion is a first class dreamer.
In the broadcast industry there is a new technology in audience measurement. The older tradtion of having people keep diaries so the audience survey people can publish The Ratings used by ad agencies and advertisers is in the process of shifting to a new People Meter technology. As I understand it, those participating the the audience study are given a little electronic device to carry around which hears the radio when you have it on, and can hear the I.D. tones buried in the audio. It is shaking up the industry. And one of the winners is CCM oriented radio.
As they fine tune this new technology and how they use it, if this early trend fleshes out and remains strong it will put new pressure on "the church" which means churches can go one of two ways: 1. Get with the times as dictated by the People Meter audience studies. 2. Do a better job of teaching their adherents what is music that is more theologically appropriate.
<giggle, giggle> I see another 100-year fight coming that will alternate from burner to burner.
Programming to SERVE the audience. Programming to DRAW the audience.
And when you look at the messages in this thread where people begin to question or justify the music that is used today in church.... in worship... I see people getting into debates over whether the CHURCH selects it's music to SERVE the attendees, or is the music selectd to DRAW the largest number of attendees?
And maybe the smartest answer, the best answer to those questions is: YES.
Music-centric people probably need to find themselves a theology-centric person they find the can actually talk to to help them understand those people who camp on the other side of the chasm. And the Theology-centric people probably need to reach out to understand the logic of the people camped over on the music side of the chasm.
As a minor participant in a major battle in a major church organization in this country, I can tell you we have issues that have been boiing on the front burner for 30 years tied to issues on the middle burner for 70 years tied to other issues on the back burner for 100 years.
Anybody who thinks they can SOLVE the worship-and-music struggles in two or three days on a website discussion is a first class dreamer.
In the broadcast industry there is a new technology in audience measurement. The older tradtion of having people keep diaries so the audience survey people can publish The Ratings used by ad agencies and advertisers is in the process of shifting to a new People Meter technology. As I understand it, those participating the the audience study are given a little electronic device to carry around which hears the radio when you have it on, and can hear the I.D. tones buried in the audio. It is shaking up the industry. And one of the winners is CCM oriented radio.
As they fine tune this new technology and how they use it, if this early trend fleshes out and remains strong it will put new pressure on "the church" which means churches can go one of two ways: 1. Get with the times as dictated by the People Meter audience studies. 2. Do a better job of teaching their adherents what is music that is more theologically appropriate.
<giggle, giggle> I see another 100-year fight coming that will alternate from burner to burner.
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said it well.
As Christian radio may be using music CCM to draw audiences (read that as younger audiences), so do many churches today that have been facing declining attendance (as their elder populations are dieing off or going to nursing homes sort of the problem AM radio faces). Many have started to re-examine their musical choices (Hymns vs Praise/CCM) so that they can draw people (read that as a younger congregation) to their worship services thus the battles over what type of music to use in worship services will continue.
My guess is most churches will eventually move to a more praise type music with some churches providing the more traditional hymn based music, sort of like Classical NPR and Jazz NPR stations do today in a radio world where very few if any commerical classical or jazz stations remain. There will be a group of believers in each city that want the more traditional style of worship ( I could see this being strongest in Lutheran, Catholic, and Baptist denominations) and the more progressive music in the other churches especially nondenominational and Charismatic churches.
As Christian radio may be using music CCM to draw audiences (read that as younger audiences), so do many churches today that have been facing declining attendance (as their elder populations are dieing off or going to nursing homes sort of the problem AM radio faces). Many have started to re-examine their musical choices (Hymns vs Praise/CCM) so that they can draw people (read that as a younger congregation) to their worship services thus the battles over what type of music to use in worship services will continue.
My guess is most churches will eventually move to a more praise type music with some churches providing the more traditional hymn based music, sort of like Classical NPR and Jazz NPR stations do today in a radio world where very few if any commerical classical or jazz stations remain. There will be a group of believers in each city that want the more traditional style of worship ( I could see this being strongest in Lutheran, Catholic, and Baptist denominations) and the more progressive music in the other churches especially nondenominational and Charismatic churches.
Let me lob a little "cherry bomb" firecracker into this conversation.
This is a totally different aspect of how choice of music can affect things. This anecdotal information comes primarily from one particular congregation and I am watching closely for any evidence that it may be supported by other experiences.
We have just come through 15 to 20 years of unusual connection in this country between some churches and the Republican party. Before the recent presidential election there were a number of reports that the "romance" between these churches was headed toward divorce court. Time will tell.
The story I have picked up from this one church which was running three worship services on Sunday morning was a change of one service to contemporary music and other changes in the worship to complement the music. The church began having some internal turmoil about the need for the church to become more aligned with Right Wing Republican politics. For reasons not related to this turmoil, the service was returned to a more traditional music and eventually this particular service was discontinued. Then the church a year or so later came to the conclusion that agitation to incorporate civil politics into the life of the church had gone away.
I can't prove or disprove that there was a cause and effect taking place, But I do know of at least one church that will tell you that choice of music affects more than attendance and the age of people that will be reached.
This is a totally different aspect of how choice of music can affect things. This anecdotal information comes primarily from one particular congregation and I am watching closely for any evidence that it may be supported by other experiences.
We have just come through 15 to 20 years of unusual connection in this country between some churches and the Republican party. Before the recent presidential election there were a number of reports that the "romance" between these churches was headed toward divorce court. Time will tell.
The story I have picked up from this one church which was running three worship services on Sunday morning was a change of one service to contemporary music and other changes in the worship to complement the music. The church began having some internal turmoil about the need for the church to become more aligned with Right Wing Republican politics. For reasons not related to this turmoil, the service was returned to a more traditional music and eventually this particular service was discontinued. Then the church a year or so later came to the conclusion that agitation to incorporate civil politics into the life of the church had gone away.
I can't prove or disprove that there was a cause and effect taking place, But I do know of at least one church that will tell you that choice of music affects more than attendance and the age of people that will be reached.
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said, The story I have picked up from this one church which was running three worship services on Sunday morning was a change of one service to contemporary music and other changes in the worship to complement the music. The church began having some internal turmoil about the need for the church to become more aligned with Right Wing Republican politics. For reasons not related to this turmoil, the service was returned to a more traditional music and eventually this particular service was discontinued. Then the church a year or so later came to the conclusion that agitation to incorporate civil politics into the life of the church had gone away.
I can't prove or disprove that there was a cause and effect taking place, But I do know of at least one church that will tell you that choice of music affects more than attendance and the age of people that will be reached.
You do bring up an interesting point. All the praise type churches I know of, with one exception that was a United Methodist church, did seem to have right wing political views (the other United Methodist churches that had praise services seemed to lean to the right politically - they also were located in Republican neighborhoods - as it seems that the United Methodist denomination as a whole tends to lean more left than right politically). The non-denominational churches, Charismatic types, Assembly of God churches I've been to definitely lean to the right. On the other hand, Fundimentalist and Baptist churches which generally seem to prefer hymns over praise music also lean to the right politically.
Interestingly in Christian radio be it CCM or hymn oriented type stations seem to have an abundance of right wing preachers. The main line denomination churches (which typically are more moderate or left leaning politically usually use commerical secular AM radio on Sunday mornings for their broadcasts rather than a Christian CCM or hymn based station). Even Billy Graham's "The Hour of Decision" is heard on secular radio stations (for years his broadcasts were also heard on all the major radio networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Mutual, today I don't know if they still air on any of the networks).
I can't prove or disprove that there was a cause and effect taking place, But I do know of at least one church that will tell you that choice of music affects more than attendance and the age of people that will be reached.
You do bring up an interesting point. All the praise type churches I know of, with one exception that was a United Methodist church, did seem to have right wing political views (the other United Methodist churches that had praise services seemed to lean to the right politically - they also were located in Republican neighborhoods - as it seems that the United Methodist denomination as a whole tends to lean more left than right politically). The non-denominational churches, Charismatic types, Assembly of God churches I've been to definitely lean to the right. On the other hand, Fundimentalist and Baptist churches which generally seem to prefer hymns over praise music also lean to the right politically.
Interestingly in Christian radio be it CCM or hymn oriented type stations seem to have an abundance of right wing preachers. The main line denomination churches (which typically are more moderate or left leaning politically usually use commerical secular AM radio on Sunday mornings for their broadcasts rather than a Christian CCM or hymn based station). Even Billy Graham's "The Hour of Decision" is heard on secular radio stations (for years his broadcasts were also heard on all the major radio networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Mutual, today I don't know if they still air on any of the networks).
I remember Hour of Decision (truncated 25 minute version) coming down the ABC network line in the 70s.
There are United Methodist Churches of all stripes, some conservative evangelical, some very liberal and some in between. The one I attend is in between. We have both a contemporary service and two traditional services. I honestly don't know the senior pastor's politics...I've heard him take issue with both sides. I remember a sermon where he said "the problem with this church is they let Democrats in....and Republicans. There are too many liberals, and too many conservatives. There are people on the wrong side of abortion and homosexuality (without stating what the "right side" is). In truth, I can be sitting in a row with pro-choice and pro-life people, and could see Obama and Bush stickers.
One of the other U.M. megachurches has a very evangelical pastor and a very conservative outlook. I think it just depends on the congregation.
There are United Methodist Churches of all stripes, some conservative evangelical, some very liberal and some in between. The one I attend is in between. We have both a contemporary service and two traditional services. I honestly don't know the senior pastor's politics...I've heard him take issue with both sides. I remember a sermon where he said "the problem with this church is they let Democrats in....and Republicans. There are too many liberals, and too many conservatives. There are people on the wrong side of abortion and homosexuality (without stating what the "right side" is). In truth, I can be sitting in a row with pro-choice and pro-life people, and could see Obama and Bush stickers.
One of the other U.M. megachurches has a very evangelical pastor and a very conservative outlook. I think it just depends on the congregation.
Silkie said:
Great! All we need is preaching. That solves it all. Since a large percentage of church disputes and fights involve music, we will just cut out all music and voila! We have a congregation.
In a matter of seconds I could list 12 or 15 organized church groups (denominations?), each of which is known for having some strong, dynamic, pull-no-punches preachers. Each of these preachers will tell you they preach the unwatered, uncompromised, unwavering Gospel.... and yet they all preach something different. So we could start a new thread and have just as many opinions about how to preach a pure Gospel... just like we have many opinions about what church music should be, what CCM radio music should be, and going back to the original post that kicked all this off: (slightly reworded
"Does your church allow your children to sing the music that I just heard advertised on TV as CDs YOU want to own and listen to?"Does all this boil down to personality of the hearer? I want my music loud, hard-driving with a good rock beat! I want my music to be melodic with old fashioned harmony. I want my preacher to be loud and tell me exactly what to do so I don't have to think and worry about it. I want my preacher to quietly lay the choices offered by the Gospel in front of me so I can think my way through it.
It's religion 21st Century: I want, I want, I want, I want.
You want your music. I want my music. What goes round comes round. Read history. We have always been this way.
MikefromDelaware said:
In context, I said something different.
The main point was that we get hung up on things [differences in style] that are insignificant, and call something "worship" when it's often nothing more than "performance." Or something we just do because that's how we've always done it. Or whatever.
I agree music can be powerful, and it can make people do things [but it would need some words so they get the message, I think]. If music is what the crowd of pew sitters and non-actives is worshipping, and what they are going to church for, then they are missing out on a lot of other good church stuff they should be doing. After a while, the "newness" of the new music style will wear off, and they'll stop pew sitting and will go back to the lake when it's sunny or sit at home if it's too cold. Then we're back to running in circles trying to "get them back in" and all that....
MikefromDelaware said:
Forget "Christian" for a moment and think of how many different "conservative" radio networks and programs there are. Perhaps dozens of networks? Now count the "liberal" networks. Do you need both hands? It seems that the abundance extends far beyond the "Christian" formats.
Whether or not people are on the wings probably depends on where you sit on the political spectrum. A guy like Rush or Franken practically defines the wing on the opposite ends. Churches run the spectrum as well ... (but this isn't a political or religious forum so I'll leave the examples out).
I often find the music I hear on a local Christian station sung as the special music in church ... I have for several decades. I've sung a few "radio songs" in church. I've also heard songs in church that wouldn't make the popular Christian radio station's playlist. There are crossovers and there are never cross overs.
There are songs you would here at youth meetings that you may never hear in the adult worship --- yet both types are on the radio. It is just part of the diversity. Personally I don't believe people want their radio station to sound like a 24x7 church service. But there are stations that do that and apparently they have listeners so I suppose it is OK.
I wanted to get this in sooner but have been working more and haven't been able to until now. The comment was made that Baptists tend to lean more toward traditional worship. Independent Baptists, who are mostly King James only as well, tend to be VERY anti-CCM. However Southern Baptists vary from church to church. They run the range from being as anti-CCM as the IFBs (Mostly older and rural ones), to having either separate contemporary and traditional services or blended services, to being totally contemporary. (These are the ones that are Baptist in their doctrine, but may not always have it in the name of their church.) A lot depends on the average age of the members and how large a city they are in. More SBC churches are going to either separate contemporary and traditional or blended services.
A lot depends as well on who is in control and how open they are to change. Like I said earlier, there are some people who will not accept any kind of change and fight it, and some Baptists are the worst about it. It only takes one person at times to start problems claiming they're "standing up for what it right", even though they may actually be wrong, but are too stubborn to admit it, or who actually love to cause division. It's churches with those kinds of people who have the biggest problem bringing in CCM.
A lot depends as well on who is in control and how open they are to change. Like I said earlier, there are some people who will not accept any kind of change and fight it, and some Baptists are the worst about it. It only takes one person at times to start problems claiming they're "standing up for what it right", even though they may actually be wrong, but are too stubborn to admit it, or who actually love to cause division. It's churches with those kinds of people who have the biggest problem bringing in CCM.
quadraphonic said, The main point was that we get hung up on things [differences in style] that are insignificant, and call something "worship" when it's often nothing more than "performance." Or something we just do because that's how we've always done it. Or whatever.
Another guy said, A lot depends as well on who is in control and how open they are to change. Like I said earlier, there are some people who will not accept any kind of change and fight it, and some Baptists are the worst about it. It only takes one person at times to start problems claiming they're "standing up for what it right", even though they may actually be wrong, but are too stubborn to admit it, or who actually love to cause division
I agree with what you are saying here. I've been to churches, both traditional and CCM/praise, where the musicians are more focused on the performance and not worship. They themselves are the show. They are doing a performance vs worshipping and there is a major difference. Many paid music leaders (organists, choir leaders, and praiseband leaders) see that Sunday morning service as "gig" rather than a time of worship for themselves personally. This can affect what is being done musically in the service too as well as the "spirit" in which the music is done.
On the other hand, I've been to churches where you hardly notice the praise band, choir, organist, etc as they aren't drawing attention to themselves as they are also worshipping the Lord as they are playing/singing the music. It's not about them, but about placing their gift of music at the foot of the altar in worship. When I've lead praise bands or choirs this is the approach and spirit I hope to achieve with the music be it praise or hymns.
I agree with you, if the music and the spirit of the service is geared this way, then it shouldn't really matter whether or not the church plays the Classical Music of dead Germans or the newest Praise/CCM chart as both types of music honor the Lord as God can use both to lift his people to the heights of worship and use both to touch people's hearts bringing them to their knees to receive the grace of forgiveness and salvation that is waiting for each person to accept.
Another guy said, A lot depends as well on who is in control and how open they are to change. Like I said earlier, there are some people who will not accept any kind of change and fight it, and some Baptists are the worst about it. It only takes one person at times to start problems claiming they're "standing up for what it right", even though they may actually be wrong, but are too stubborn to admit it, or who actually love to cause division
I agree with what you are saying here. I've been to churches, both traditional and CCM/praise, where the musicians are more focused on the performance and not worship. They themselves are the show. They are doing a performance vs worshipping and there is a major difference. Many paid music leaders (organists, choir leaders, and praiseband leaders) see that Sunday morning service as "gig" rather than a time of worship for themselves personally. This can affect what is being done musically in the service too as well as the "spirit" in which the music is done.
On the other hand, I've been to churches where you hardly notice the praise band, choir, organist, etc as they aren't drawing attention to themselves as they are also worshipping the Lord as they are playing/singing the music. It's not about them, but about placing their gift of music at the foot of the altar in worship. When I've lead praise bands or choirs this is the approach and spirit I hope to achieve with the music be it praise or hymns.
I agree with you, if the music and the spirit of the service is geared this way, then it shouldn't really matter whether or not the church plays the Classical Music of dead Germans or the newest Praise/CCM chart as both types of music honor the Lord as God can use both to lift his people to the heights of worship and use both to touch people's hearts bringing them to their knees to receive the grace of forgiveness and salvation that is waiting for each person to accept.
..When I lived in Nashville and worked with Way-Fm, I always enjoyed the "Nashville Scene" artsie-lean to the left and entertaining" weekly fair... They were posh and old school libs that grew up and really had an open banter with those of us, right of center (that's why I love Nashville, we are good neighbors in most any opposing viewpoint)... Each year "The Scene" would issue their weekly as; "You're So Nashville, if........." The one that always cracked me up was; "You're so Nashville, if your Pastor or Worship Leader refers to the congregation as 'THE AUDIENCE'!".......That's entertainment! At Christ Church, the Choir/Praise Leader had to set a rule that you HAD TO PRACTICE 12 MONTHS with the Choir, before you could sing with them in worship... Seems several 'wanna-be' Country and Gospel singers would join the Choir, get a 'solo' on a few Sunday's, sign with a label who heard them in Church and then the singer would never be seen at Church, again! Scotty Smith's Church in Franklin (where a ton of music people attend) made sure the praise band had regular folks like the butcher from Kroger on the bass and the school teacher on the drums.... Though, at times he would tap talent in a particular theme... I remember in the Spring of '91 he had Bob Carlisle sing "When A Man Loves A Woman" to back his scripture on the other part of Ephesians...Men like verses 5:22 thru 24....BUT, men tend to forget or skip the meat of the submission part which lies in verses 5:25 through 32...... Welcome to the Nashville's First Church of Celebrity and for our "Audience...Oops! Congregation!....We present our Dove Award, Grammy Award winning Entertainer....Oops! Gifted and talented musician singing and playing their number one charting hit....Oops! Their inspired and touching song of faith that's number one on God's chart.........Yep, at times it felt like that! :
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
My church is United Methodist. And I mentioned we were conservative musically. But in my 20 years there, we have had only one pastor who took the attitude "Believe as I do or you're not going to Heaven."gr8oldies said:
We have a woman now, and people seem to like her. She has chosen hymns that are traditional for the most part, with the help of one of our more conservative members, the alto in the Southern gospel quartet that sang a couple of Sundays ago.
Our last pastor took the attitude that people should interpret the Bible for themselves, and some of his opinions would not have gone over well with the fundamentalist Baptists. He did make liberal use of PowerPoint, which got on my nerves.
Some years ago we got into a debate over homosexuals because we were helping support an organization that accepted money from a gay church. We voted not to support them any more. But it was by a narrow margin.
Despite our conservative music, there are only a few men who wear suits and ties, although there are more in the winter. I was one of the last holdouts during the summer, but I realized I had seen so many golf shirts I liked and bought them, and these shirts were too new and too nice to wear ... unless. My dress shirts were old and I needed new ones. Now I only wear a dress shirt and tie in the winter when a short-sleeve shirt is too cold. And I went the whole winter this year without a sport coat. It was just never that cold on Sunday when I went to my own church--based on the outdoor temperature and the limited time I would actually be outside. I had long-sleeved, older golf shirts I wore to other churches. I just don't like to weat a tie and everything when I visit my relatives.
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