This blackout song is getting a lot of play for being at number 61

[viper452]

I wonder whats pushing it. Hell, I dont think Nicole Sherzinger's single from back in the summer made the top 40 and that got a ton of airplay.

 

[MassMusicMan]

Huh? "Blackout" is approaching the Top 20, and "Right There" made it to around #17.

 

[acesup]

One can only assume that Viper452 is looking at the Hot 100, which means very little. Breathe Carolina is currently 21* on the 7-Day rolling chart.

 

[viper452]

So billboard means nothing now?

 

[CHRles]

So billboard means nothing now?

Marty, we're no longer in 1985 - you might wanna check with Doc on when he might be able to fix that Delorean of yours with that Flux capacitor thingy.

The Billboard Hot 100 is still an important tool for many in the industry, both domestically and abroad. At the same time, most CHR/Pop stations tend to follow (gasp!) the CHR/Pop chart.

 

[CatCall]

Is there someone here who can explain the difference between Billboard's and Mediabase's methodology for ranking songs? This is a recurring question that deserves a good answer.

 

[qxzchamp]

If you're talking about the Billboard Hot 100, it is ranked by a combination of sales from Mon-Sun on each week and airplay from Wed-Tue.

Billboard's Pop chart is ranked by total spins from Mon-Sun and can be seen here: http://charts.bdsradio.com/bdsradiocharts/charts.aspx?formatid=1.
This is updated every Wednesday.

Mediabase's Pop chart is also ranked by total spins from Sun-Sat and can be seen here: http://www.americasmusiccharts.com/index.cgi?fmt=H1
This is updated every Tuesday and is the official published chart.

You can also see Mediabase's 7-day rolling chart on a daily basis here: http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/insideradio/charts.asp?format=1&showyear=y&dpt=n

 

[atlantaboy]

Is there someone here who can explain the difference between Billboard's and Mediabase's methodology for ranking songs? This is a recurring question that deserves a good answer.

The Billboard Hot 100 uses airplay from all major formats, not just CHR/Pop, and it also uses sales/streaming

Songs that do well on the Hot 100 are usually either big sellers, or get airplay from a multitude of formats

 

[justpassingthough]

In other words....comparing the CHR/Pop chart to the Billboard Hot 100 is like comparing apples to oranges.

At one point in late summer on the Hot 100, the #3 song for the week was Lil Wayne's "She Will" while the #7 song was Jason Aldean's "Dirt Road Anthem". These songs received no airplay at CHR- but were monster hits on their respective formats. The spins these songs accumulated at their formats coupled with digital/singles sales and album sales made them Hot 100 top 10 songs- even if no CHR station ever touched them.

One could argue that the Hot 100 is actually the best reflection of what is popular- as it accounts for popularity without the restrictions of format (I don't agree with this point, but its certainly up for debate).

 

[atlantaboy]

One could argue that the Hot 100 is actually the best reflection of what is popular- as it accounts for popularity without the restrictions of format (I don't agree with this point, but its certainly up for debate).

My problem with the Hot 100 has always been that it takes straight spin numbers cross-format, so that say 45 spins per week on a CHR station counts just as much as 45 spins per week on an Alternative station (whereas the song getting 45x per week on the CHR is only in medium rotation, while the song getting 45x per week on the Alt. station is in power)

 

[justpassingthough]

One could argue that the Hot 100 is actually the best reflection of what is popular- as it accounts for popularity without the restrictions of format (I don't agree with this point, but its certainly up for debate).

My problem with the Hot 100 has always been that it takes straight spin numbers cross-format, so that say 45 spins per week on a CHR station counts just as much as 45 spins per week on an Alternative station (whereas the song getting 45x per week on the CHR is only in medium rotation, while the song getting 45x per week on the Alt. station is in power)

While thats certainly a valid argument, I think the rebuttal is that numbers are unbiased- at least when it comes to spins- so they don't want to weight the numbers. Even if, as you pointed out, formats like alternative don't use heavy rotation like the CHR formats, which could undercount the popularity of a song.

However, I believe the Hot 100 also doesn't weight spins at stations in large markets as accounting for bigger audience impressions than stations in small markets- so its just truly a counting of how many spins a song receives, nothing more, nothing less.

The Hot 100 is like music's equivalent of college football's BCS- its certainly flawed but perhaps there is no better way to pick a winner.

 

[atlantaboy]

However, I believe the Hot 100 also doesn't weight spins at stations in large markets as accounting for bigger audience impressions than stations in small markets- so its just truly a counting of how many spins a song receives, nothing more, nothing less.

The Hot 100 definitely uses Audience Impressions (A. I.), so that stations in large markets are weighed more than stations in small markets

IMO if they can weight spins for market size, they can also weight spins for format differences (i. e. an Alternative song getting 50 spins per week is extremely popular, while a CHR song getting 50 spins per week is only moderately popular), but I guess they've been doing it this way for so long it wouldn't make sense to change it

 

[justpassingthough]

However, I believe the Hot 100 also doesn't weight spins at stations in large markets as accounting for bigger audience impressions than stations in small markets- so its just truly a counting of how many spins a song receives, nothing more, nothing less.

The Hot 100 definitely uses Audience Impressions (A. I.), so that stations in large markets are weighed more than stations in small markets

IMO if they can weight spins for market size, they can also weight spins for format differences (i. e. an Alternative song getting 50 spins per week is extremely popular, while a CHR song getting 50 spins per week is only moderately popular), but I guess they've been doing it this way for so long it wouldn't make sense to change it

Its kind of a slippery slope. If they weight songs for format differences, where does it stop? I'm sure their argument is that regardless of which format spins a song, one spin equals one spin, then they account for audience impressions. Granted, this hurts songs on formats like alternative, but its nearly a foregone conclusion that alternative isn't as popular a genre or format as CHR- and alternative songs do have the ability to cross over to other formats (AAA, CHR, Hot AC, AC, heck even Rhythmic like Foster the People)- so technically they have equal footing and opportunity to ascend the chart. (Not necessarily my opinion, I'm just playing devil's advocate here and surmising on how Billboard thinks)

 

[atlantaboy]

^Yeah, I completely agree - if they introduce some sort of format weighting system, their definition of Audience Impressions becomes confusing

I think the other bottom line is that labels don't care how Alternative/Hot AC acts do on the Hot 100 (even back in the 90s/early 2000s when Alt. was really popular), whereas it's become imperative that pop/urban acts hit #1 with their singles - so I don't think Billboard feels any pressure to change anything

 

[justpassingthough]

I don't think there is a conspiracy afoot against alternative or Hot AC/adult rock songs on the Hot 100. I'd have to go back and look at old Hot 100 charts to see what was charting high ten years ago, to be sure. I think the difference between what does well on the Hot 100 is a side effect of what you've already brought up- the overuse of songs by CHR stations compared to other formats.

Pop and rhythmic songs tend to get burned out on CHR and CHR/Rhythmic stations- many of which have much larger cumes in the major markets- then alternative or Modern AC or Hot AC stations. Therefore, its a doubling effect- many more people hear the song on the radio and hear it more often- so audience impressions adds much more weight that can't always be balanced out by sales (digital and retail) alone.

Does this make the song more popular? The argument could go either way. Probably the least biased method would be to go off of sales alone- as its an indication of what people are willing to spend money on. Although, obviously this is majorly flawed as well, as you leave out people who can't afford to buy music, people who steal their music, people too lazy to buy music when its offered for free, etc- so gauging true popularity is almost impossible.