What do u guys think.. As a 30 yr old raised in NYC, its hard to relate to the current state of Hip Hop. NONE of the new stuff has a connection to NYC. No new NYC sound or artist is around these days. Almost all of it is from artists from different regions. Classic Hip Hop has a connection to NY and I think it would do quite well here. Hip Hop is old enough now where you have an abundance of classic hip hop tracks... If NYC cant have a current dance station, but shoots for the older demos with classic dance.. why cant the same apply to classic hip hop? Is it thought that classic hip hop fans in their 30s-40s dont have as much income as classic dance's 30-40 yr old demo?
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This is the right time for NY to get a Classic Hip Hop station - Discuss....
- Thread starter JayD
- Start date
I totally disagree. Z 100 sounds better than ever. They dont need to throw in 90s hip hop. Theyre a Pop station and are doing a great job at it. Spinbad is a phenomenal dj and I love hearing him spin. He's one of the, if not, best mixshow djs in NY right now. The other stations just have djs who slam records in. Spinbad mixes and does alot of mash ups. Mash ups have been big in clubs for years and its nice to hear some on the radio now that KTU dropped Crooklyn Clan's saturday night mixshow which had creative mashups mixed in.
Why Hip Hop. There is so much music available in the R&B genre. Why has "Urban" radio become hip hop/rap or bust?? Yes I know it's popular, but the music sucks.
Spend 30 minutes logged on to the NeoSoul Cafe online and most people will say wow. I have never heard these songs on the radio. Why doesn't Kiss or WBLS focus on the upscale Younger Minority communities on NYC/NJ. They do exist and don't all like rap.
Spend 30 minutes logged on to the NeoSoul Cafe online and most people will say wow. I have never heard these songs on the radio. Why doesn't Kiss or WBLS focus on the upscale Younger Minority communities on NYC/NJ. They do exist and don't all like rap.
jkb said:
I think it's time to look at both. As far as classic hip hop, I'd be a fan. I do think there would have to be some '80s/'90s R&B thrown in as well (a la Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam, Today, Guy, etc.).... the R&B songs that had a hip hop edge to it, especially the songs that are not getting airplay today on the Urban AC stations.
As far as NeoSoul, I've always been a fan a feel like these artists are getting shafted. We should hear more of it on the radio today.
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LinoNYC
Guest
JayD said:
Well, if my 20+ years of jukebox operating is indicative, there isn't much interest among the public for a 'rap/hip-hop gold" format. Once a track falls out of popularity, that's it.
One of the problems here is that the genre is inherently primitive musically that makes it more difficult to form a long-term sentimental bond with it.
The same thing happens to other genres such a extreme grunge or punk, people don't allways want to be reminded of how poor their taste was 10-20 years ago.
I can only offer a theory here, which will probably get someone mad, Alot of dance fans are gay, they generally don't have families on their back to support, have good jobs and thus higher disposable income. In contrast the sort of "P1" hip-hop listener will often be lower income and often too young to have significant spending power. This is why even when stations such as Hot-97 were at their peak, they billed lower than stations with smaller listenership.
To sum up I'd say as a specialty show, sure -as a format no.
Lino
LinoNYC said:
I dunno, most of the P1 hip hop listeners I see around here sure have enough spending power to get the FUBU, the Rocawear and the Sean John. Not to mention the Nikes, Reeboks or whatever other popular sneaker brands are out there. And then there's the obligatory bling.
Guess most of these schmucks live on credit cards, though. Not the kind of person I'd want to market to.
The problem is that Power is still very alienating, more Rhythmic CHR than Urban these days. I mean, they still play Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Nelly Furtado - acts that fall more in the Pop category than Urban - and that's great if you're a teen, but if you're an adult, pretty much all of these acts make you change the station in a heartbeat.
What NYC really needs is a station that puts the focus squarely on Urban music of the '80s and '90s (with or without the R&B), with a few Currents that would go over well with the audience (and no, the acts mentioned above most certainly do not). Heck, they could even go back further and mix in some James Brown or P-Funk for some variety. There's a lot of stations that could make dramatic improvements over where they are now if they gave something like this a try.
And besides, how far "back in the day" does Power go anyway? Based on what I've heard, no further than Biggie or Busta. Needless to say, anyone looking for Afrika Bambaataa or Grandmaster Flash would be well advised to look elsewhere.
What NYC really needs is a station that puts the focus squarely on Urban music of the '80s and '90s (with or without the R&B), with a few Currents that would go over well with the audience (and no, the acts mentioned above most certainly do not). Heck, they could even go back further and mix in some James Brown or P-Funk for some variety. There's a lot of stations that could make dramatic improvements over where they are now if they gave something like this a try.
And besides, how far "back in the day" does Power go anyway? Based on what I've heard, no further than Biggie or Busta. Needless to say, anyone looking for Afrika Bambaataa or Grandmaster Flash would be well advised to look elsewhere.
JayD
>>>Hip Hop is old enough now where you have an abundance of classic hip hop tracks... If NYC cant have a current dance station, but shoots for the older demos with classic dance.. why cant the same apply to classic hip hop? Is it thought that classic hip hop fans in their 30s-40s dont have as much income as classic dance's 30-40 yr old demo?<<<
I agree. New York has a Classic Rock station WAXQ-1043, two AC/Classic or Oldies R&B staions WBLS & WRKS (Kiss-FM) and an Oldies station (you could still call WCBS-FM Oldies).
But we don't need another station. One of the existing stations should fill that void. It could be either (Hot 97 WQHT or (Power 1051) WWPR-FM.
But this station should focus on Rap from the mid-late 70's to currents, just like Kiss-FM and WBLS play yesterday going back to the 60's to today's R&B.
Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy
>>>Hip Hop is old enough now where you have an abundance of classic hip hop tracks... If NYC cant have a current dance station, but shoots for the older demos with classic dance.. why cant the same apply to classic hip hop? Is it thought that classic hip hop fans in their 30s-40s dont have as much income as classic dance's 30-40 yr old demo?<<<
I agree. New York has a Classic Rock station WAXQ-1043, two AC/Classic or Oldies R&B staions WBLS & WRKS (Kiss-FM) and an Oldies station (you could still call WCBS-FM Oldies).
But we don't need another station. One of the existing stations should fill that void. It could be either (Hot 97 WQHT or (Power 1051) WWPR-FM.
But this station should focus on Rap from the mid-late 70's to currents, just like Kiss-FM and WBLS play yesterday going back to the 60's to today's R&B.
Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy
A
adma
Guest
LinoNYC said:
LinoNYC, much as the music and its realm may not be my absolute cup of tea either, I wish you wouldn't be constantly using this William Bennett-ish "values" musical-judgment filter.
It isn't about "poor taste" necessarily--however, I do agree that it just doesn't translate well into traditional commercial radio terms; but in some respects, that's more analogous to what happened to jazz after WWII. Relative to prior mass-appeal parameters, it went off-radar.
It isn't that punk or hip-hop are on an equal musical level with be-bop; more that their natural realm, like that of be-bop and post-bop, is outside the old-school "mainstream" orbit.
And that's where I sorta agree with you, that in 2007, to be looking to commercial terrestrial radio as a place for stuff like classic hip-hop is off-base, except in a try-anything last-ditch-bid-for-survival state of affairs. But IMO that's less reflective of the music being too degraded for the medium, than of the medium being too degraded for the music. And those who're arguing for "classic hip-hop" on FM aren't necessarily the best spokespersons for the music or the culture thereof.
Finally, bear in mind that if anything's open to be stigmatized by a so-called "poor taste" of yore, it's "classic radio" of the sort celebrated on the dentist's board, etc: all that middle-aged leisure-suited 60s/70s parvenu cheese, compounded by the celebrators having absolutely no sense of irony...
I think a classic 80's urban station could survive in New York, but it would need to incorporate both rap and funk. Artist like Pete Rock and De la Soul would have to be in concert with Cameo, Renee and Angela, the Gap Band, Yarbrough & Peoples, Taana Gardner, the SOS band, late-stage Isley Brothers, and also harder edged Janet jackson and Michael Jasckon tracks. I'd make this hard funk, light rap my midday core, and at night I'd go deeper into 90's album cuts like Where my Dogs At, Still a G Thang, Brooklyn Zoo, and other great rap tracks by mainstreem artist which weren't necessarily singles in the 90's.
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adma
Guest
If that seems an oxymoron to you, you're a Mitch Miller for our time and shouldn't even bother contributing to these discussions...
murphmac said:
Yes, you know...back when the lyrics were good, and RHYMED! ....and there was actually a beat, scratching and sampling instead of some abstract sounds in the background.
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LinoNYC
Guest
adma said:
Well, as a former "Sing Along Kid" in one of Miller's NBC shows, I'd like to suggest another "oxymoron": Rap music.
What ever you may think of his blue-hair appeal, Mitch Miller was a musician and never evinced that slightest personal prejudice.
You may not appreciate his smug, middle-class appeal, he and his ilk were trained, talented artists who created actual music not stolen,,,er,, sampled bits of other's works with grafted-on childish rhymes.
I don't recall him having any drug gang connections either.
Lino
A
adma
Guest
LinoNYC, in that case, you shouldn't be bothering with anything from depraved perverts like Chuck Berry and Little Richard onward...
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LinoNYC
Guest
adma said:
I've known and worked some of what you might think I'd regard as "depraved perverts' . As the son of a major art dealer I saw the 1960s up close. I did develope a degree of taste.
Save your judgements of those you don't know.
Lino
Chuck Berry and Little Richard were considered by some to be "depraved perverts" back in Rock & Roll's early days. That was adma's point.
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