To Mr HD radio hater news on KPFT

[BamaTX]

During the recent wintergeddon where the power was off, how many of you were out in the car or truck running the heater to stay warm? We're you getting any needed information from your radio, or were you streaming TV newscasts while charging your phone?

For a majority of people, there was absolutely no option since both avenues failed.

All three carriers (plus legacy Sprint sites) were either down, or drowned with users because neighboring sites were down. (It doesn't help that no one was offloading to Wi-Fi). Radio was playing music and KTRH was on their scheduled syndicated shows most of the day and night.

I was lucky and ran a generator that powered a small space heater, TV, a few lights, and the Comcast modem. I was able to run Youtube TV without any issues and got whatever little information I could from that and Twitter.

 

[rageradio]

Sangean has three portable radio models with HD.

I have 2

 

[Mediafrog+]

Not necessarily. With antenna innovation, I'm sure manufacturers could find a way to cram an FM antenna inside a smartphone. Low-band 4x4 MIMO was once thought of as impossible in mobile phones, but Sony is currently doing it.

You still need to appreciate the significant wavelength differences between the cellular bands and FM radio.

The lowest frequencies currently used by cellular (just above 614 MHz) have a wavelength around 48 centimeters. The middle of the FM band is 300 centimeters. Big difference. With wired headphones you had a nice 1/4 wave antenna for FM.

Going higher in frequency, the 1900 MHz cellular band is around 16 cm, 2100 MHz around 14 cm, and 2500 MHz at 12 cm. Easy to cram antennas for those bands into a smartphone.

Also, it wouldn't be extremely hard for manufacturers to use USB-C/Lightning headphones as an antenna.

But people don't want wired headphones any more.

It's technically still possible to do FM on a smartphone or MP3 player. But why would you?

I once had an FM radio which was no bigger than my thumbnail, and only a few millimeters thick (most of that was the button battery.) Tiny size, but still needed wired headphones for the antenna.

 

[davideduardo]

That's a myth. If carriers are removing software for FM support, it isn't to increase data usage. It is done to promote bloatware that comes with the phone (TuneIn, iHeart, Spotify, Pandora, etc.). All three major carriers push unlimited data as their major selling point (and have done so for a while now). There is no longer any "overages" and carriers instead upsell features like "HD Video", Hotspot, less deprioritization, "5G" access, cloud storage, etc.

Many carriers, including the two that actually have signals in my area (and thus the non-operating carriers who rent bandwidth from them) have data quotas on most of their plans. While generous, they do want to have as many as possible exceed the maximums.

The only manufacturer that still allows carriers to "turn off" FM radio is Samsung. Apple never touched FM. Google never offered FM on any of their Pixel phones. LG offers FM on all of their carrier version phones (but they're on their way out of the industry). Motorola has always included FM on their unlocked budget phones and carriers have had no issues letting them on their network. Sprint and Verizon could have easily refused to whitelist Motorola Phones on their CDMA network. But they didn't because FM Radio isn't even on their radar.

But they know that the users of budget phones won't be users of excessive bandwidth.

Like HD radio where there is no incentive for car makers to include it, the is no reason for phone makers to include FM. And there are significant reasons not to.

 

[BamaTX]

You still need to appreciate the significant wavelength differences between the cellular bands and FM radio.

Of course there is a massive difference. The higher you go, the easier it gets to manufacture antennas for small devices. That's the reason why MIMO is still mostly limited to the PCS, AWS, WCS and EBS/BRS bands. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to get FM working with an internal antenna. If course, just don't expect to pick up fringe stations.

My point is that antenna limitations isn't what is stopping FM from being included on modern smartphones and media players.

 

[BamaTX]

Many carriers, including the two that actually have signals in my area (and thus the non-operating carriers who rent bandwidth from them) have data quotas on most of their plans. While generous, they do want to have as many as possible exceed the maximums.

Unless the two carriers in your area are regional carriers or partner carriers, I don't buy this. National carriers have gotten rid of quotas. Even on tiered plans, some carriers and MVNOs will just throttle you to "2G" speeds. The only carriers that want users to use as much data as possible are carriers that live off of domestic roaming (like Commnet) and those that are considered "roaming partners" to one of the big three (like Bluegrass Wireless and Appalachian Wireless). But either way, these regional carriers don't have enough weight to tell Samsung/LG to deactivate the FM chips.

As far as MVNOs, they usually buy wholesale. While a few will offer unlimited, their goal is to keep customers from using too much data by implementing stricter throttling and deprioritization tactics. The less days they buy, the more money they get to keep.

But they know that the users of budget phones won't be users of excessive bandwidth.

Not necessarily. The budget phone industry is growing for a reason, but it has nothing to do with data usage. If you want to separate heavy data users from light data users, you are better off looking at age groups.

There's a reason why T-Mobile offers cheaper versions of their plans to 55+ customers.

 

[+713]

Neither, data was not working and radio stations were playing music.

I apologize, Mr. T. I guess I was lucky. In Midtown I had no problem with cell phone data However I lost power for quite awhile, which actually was kinda aggravating since I could look out the window and see downtown all lit up.

 

[BamaTX]

The less days they buy, the more money they get to keep.

Sorry, meant to say the less data customers use, the more money MVNOs get to keep.

 

[Mrtejano]

I apologize, Mr. T. I guess I was lucky. In Midtown I had no problem with cell phone data However I lost power for quite awhile, which actually was kinda aggravating since I could look out the window and see downtown all lit up.

I work in The Heights and we had no Data either, I couldn’t even connect to Xfinity wifi here. Amd when power was restored at our neighborhood up north 45 and Rsnkin

 

[BamaTX]

I work in The Heights and we had no Data either,

Not surprising. Carriers have taken a different approach at managing congestion in the Heights by going with small cells instead of traditional cell sites.

Most small cells being installed around town don't have backup power (generator or battery).

Amd when power was restored at our neighborhood up north 45 and Rsnkin

Is that still comcast and AT&T territory?

 

[Mrtejano]

Not surprising. Carriers have taken a different approach at managing congestion in the Heights by going with small cells instead of traditional cell sites.

Most small cells being installed around town don't have backup power (generator or battery).

Is that still comcast and AT&T territory?

We have Comcast and works great and very fast when we have power lol. T-Mobile network sucks on my neighborhood. I called customer service and they admitted that their coverage map confirms its a dead zone.

 

[AnyHuman]

Note that the smartphones that included FM had to use wired headsets as the antenna. With the switch to wireless earbuds, that antenna option for phones is gone, thus smartphone FM is going nowhere...stream instead.

I've seen FM radios on Bluetooth speakers, whereas the speaker used the USB charging cable as the antenna, and it worked decently well. I suppose smartphones could be made to do the same, but not that the manufacturers want to take the time and energy to do so.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Not necessarily. With antenna innovation, I'm sure manufacturers could find a way to cram an FM antenna inside a smartphone.

Cellphone and media player manufacturers aren't shying away from FM Radio because of design issues.

It's not a question of possible/impossible. It's a question of trade offs.

If you look at the interior of a modern smart phone, it's pretty packed. What would the design manager be willing to give up for an FM tuner and crappy internal antenna, particularly given that the same content on an FM broadcaster can ordinarily be picked up by streaming audio?

 

[BamaTX]

If you look at the interior of a modern smart phone, it's pretty packed. What would the design manager be willing to give up for an FM tuner and crappy internal antenna, particularly given that the same content on an FM broadcaster can ordinarily be picked up by streaming audio?

Don't always take what manufacturers say at face value. When Apple took away the headphone jack, they said they did so in order to fit other features, innovation, and water-proofing. But then some YouTube tech celebrity managed to debunk that myth by jerry rigging his own headphone jack inside an iPhone 7.

Like I said, manufacturers could easily add an antenna into most smartphones. Usually adding more components is done at the cost of slightly smaller batteries or smaller (but more expensive) components. But why should they? It's a redundant feature at this point and not worth the design headache. The demand just isn't there enough to make it a priority or a selling point.

 

[HTX]

I just want to revive this thread to add that KPFT HD2 has been really loud and sounds terrible the past few days. And their translator in Goodrich is off the air and translator in Huntsville has been broadcasting dead air for awhile now.

 

[+713]

Second of all, not many people listen to KPFT. There is probably more people listening to one of the crummy translators from downtown than KPFT.

Be that as it may, kpft still serves the public better than any other radio station in Houston.

 

[davideduardo]

Be that as it may, kpft still serves the public better than any other radio station in Houston.

How does it "serve" if essentially nobody listens?

 

[landtuna]

I've had two Motorola phones over the past few years. Both had FM tuners and both worked equally as well as the FM in my cars.

 

[drt]

The smallest is the Sangean HDR-14:

Sangean HDR-14

I'm very found of mine. I have the HDR-16, HDR-18 and HDT-20 as well. I guess I'm kind of a fan.

I have two HDR-14’s, one is locked in the glovebox and the other is in the house; great but small radios, mono speaker, but sounds better than I thought it would and it is very good stereo with wired headphone; also have the HDR-16, and I am impressed with the sensitivity of both models. Also Best Buy has an their Insignia brand HD radio; it is FM only; so they are out there to buy; either online or in Best Buy.

 

[AnyHuman]

I just want to revive this thread to add that KPFT HD2 has been really loud and sounds terrible the past few days.

I once heard an HD signal in Tulsa that sounded so loud I guess at leastt 500% volume it was supposed to be. Lots of clicking noise with the beat of the music LOL.