Too Much of a Good Thing? Powerplay Overkill on CHR Radio

[ricoontheradio]

Also, to be fair, those definitely aren't the highest rated stations in the country - those stations in Phoenix and Sacramento are doing horribly, and the ones in Indy and Chicago are pretty mediocre

I can assure you that KDND in Sacramento is not doing horribly. 6+ numbers tell you nothing; they are based on people 6 years old to 106 years old. How is that possibly valuable information? The reason Arbitron releases only 6+ publicly is because of how useless it is. If they released useful information, then there'd be no reason for stations to subscribe to Arbitron, because they could just wait for the public release.

Also, on the topic of listening one hour per day -- That isn't as important as the fact that the average listener listens for 9 minutes at a time. Again, this is an average, each station/demo will have variations. The fact that someone tunes in for so few minutes each tune in is WHY stations power-rotate their songs; you want to make sure the hits are heard in that time. It creates reason to come back again.

So, while a listener might listen an hour a day, it's not in one sitting. It's probably in 3-7 different sittings.

 

[atlantaboy]

Also, to be fair, those definitely aren't the highest rated stations in the country - those stations in Phoenix and Sacramento are doing horribly, and the ones in Indy and Chicago are pretty mediocre

I can assure you that KDND in Sacramento is not doing horribly. 6+ numbers tell you nothing

He was talking about KHHM/Sacramento (which has a 2.2 share, and ranks 16th in its market)

I guess it makes sense that Arbitron doesn't publish what's useful, or they wouldn't get any subscribers - I'm not sure though why people refer to 6+ share when bragging about stations (on this board), but suddenly when someone claims a CHR isn't doing well, 6+ numbers suddenly become irrelevant

According to what you guys are posting, 92 Pro-Providence and Kiss Chicago are both #1 in their target demos, so both are equally successful (and the fact that 92 Pro has a 10+ share and Kiss Chicago has a 3+ share is irrelevant)

Why are there threads congratulating 92 Pro-FM, Kiss 108, WNCI, etc., when 6+ numbers are "irrelevant"?

 

[justpassingthough]

Also, to be fair, those definitely aren't the highest rated stations in the country - those stations in Phoenix and Sacramento are doing horribly, and the ones in Indy and Chicago are pretty mediocre

I can assure you that KDND in Sacramento is not doing horribly. 6+ numbers tell you nothing

He was talking about KHHM/Sacramento (which has a 2.2 share, and ranks 16th in its market)

I guess it makes sense that Arbitron doesn't publish what's useful, or they wouldn't get any subscribers - I'm not sure though why people refer to 6+ share when bragging about stations (on this board), but suddenly when someone claims a CHR isn't doing well, 6+ numbers suddenly become irrelevant

According to what you guys are posting, 92 Pro-Providence and Kiss Chicago are both #1 in their target demos, so both are equally successful (and the fact that 92 Pro has a 10+ share and Kiss Chicago has a 3+ share is irrelevant)

Why are there threads congratulating 92 Pro-FM, Kiss 108, WNCI, etc., when 6+ numbers are "irrelevant"?

We are way off topic here, but I think the reason any one of this board uses 6+ numbers is because they're the only numbers available to the public, as has been stated, and quoting Arbitron numbers is illegal. As David Eduardo has pointed out, Arbitron lets their customers publicly say we are #2 in the 18-34 demo, but they can't give exact numbers unless speaking with others who subscribe to Arbitron services. No one wants to get in trouble for giving away properietary information.

For the sake of argument, though, 6+ numbers would probably give a good indication of how stations are performing within their market- say WKSC vs. WBBM or KIIS v. KAMP- but using 6+ numbers to compare stations in two, three or more markets doesn't make any sense. The demographics of any given market, number of stations, etc would have to be identical for it to be a fair comparision.

As someone who has worked in media buying before, let me assure that what has been said above is largely correct. Buyers look for a certain number (ratings points within demo or whatever they're looking for) and it essentially goes into a formula that calculates based on how many dollars the client wants to spend in the market, how many demos they're targeting, how many stations they will advertise on- its all mathematic and very cut and dry- at least as far as big regional and national clients go. Its boring and there is no emotion tied to it- they leave the emotional appeal for local advertisers and people like us who like to argue about these issues on a message board

 

[atlantaboy]

^All that stuff about Arbitron makes sense then (how the important numbers are kept exclusive to subscribers, etc.) - thanks for all the info

I'm just having trouble picturing advertisers being EQUALLY willing to spend money, and as much money, on a station like WKSC/WNOU (which ranks high 18-34 females but has very few listeners over 34, male listeners, etc.) as they are willing to spend money on a station like WPRO/WNCI (which ranks high 18-34 females and has huge amounts of listeners over 34 and male listeners)

I just can't imagine many products you'd be selling that would be inapplicable to people over 34, or (besides a few obvious examples), inapplicable to men

Let's sat Dominos is running nationwide radio ads - are they going to spend as much money on ads on WNOU in Indianapolis as they're going to spend on ads on WPRO in Providence? On WNOU, the 18-34 females are definitely gonna hear the ad, but on WPRO the 18-34 females, a lot of 34-54 men and women, and even some younger 18-34 men are all gonna get the message in their heads to order pizza

 

[the golden boy]

Domino's appeals to all demographics. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, Hispanic, young, old; listen to CHR, country or talk, people of all kinds eat pizza. As far as how much they would spend on an Indy or a Providence, I guess that would depend on the station or ad agencies that set up their national ad buys.

 

[atlantaboy]

Domino's appeals to all demographics. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, Hispanic, young, old; listen to CHR, country or talk, people of all kinds eat pizza.

Right - isn't that the case for a majority of advertisers? How many products out there are exclusively targeted to 18-34 females?

That's why to me it seems like 6+ ratings should make a significant difference in how much money a station makes on advertising - if you advertise on Pro-FM in Providence, that's a whole lot more listeners than advertising on WNOU in Indianapolis (assuming the markets are about the same size)

Also, if you're #1 18-34 females with a 6+ share of 3.5, that could mean that you have something like 50% of the 18-34 female audience in the market - if you're #1 18-34 females with a 6+ share of 10.5, that could mean that you have something like 85% of the 18-34 female audience in the market - in which of those two scenarios would advertisers be more likely to throw money into ads on the station? (And in which scenario would advertisers be more likely to throw A HIGHER AMOUNT of money into ads on the station?)

 

[the golden boy]

Indy is two spots higher than Providence in market rankings.

It's not that 6+ should be completely ignored, but the demographic breakdown is much more important, especially to local businesses. If you own a certain type of business and you know the kind of people who come into your business, you'd want to advertise on a station that will best reach that clientele. Just because a CHR station may be #1 ranked overall doesn't mean that it's the best place for some businesses to advertise. You're not gonna hear many wine shops advertise on CHR because it's a younger-targeted format with many listeners under 21. Of course, you can't legally drink or possess alcohol in the US until you're 21. Why bother advertising there if a good number of the audience can't even legally use the product?

 

[atlantaboy]

You're not gonna hear many wine shops advertise on CHR because it's a younger-targeted format with many listeners under 21.

Right, but the question is...if your product does include the CHR target, wouldn't you spend more money advertising on a station that's #1 18-34 with a 10.5 share overall than you would on a station that's #1 18-34 with a 3.5 share overall (in markets with relatively comparable populations)

 

[CHRles]

I agree that you're gonna spend MORE on a station with higher shares and cume, but it also depends on how wealthy the market is, how many local radio signals there are, and how good your sales team is.
For example, even though metro NYC's population is bigger than that of L.A., for the past decade or more L.A. has by far been the top revenue market in the US.

The fact that a CHR station like Kiss 108 Boston achieves a 10 share in a Top 10 market, with an astonishing cume, is a rarity. It's no small feat to be the number one station in a market as competitive as Boston.
Its morning show pulls HUGE numbers with both 25-54 and 18-34 year olds, in part b/c Matty has been at the station pretty much since day one (for 30 years now). The music mix during mid-days is Adult friendly, and is customized enough for its local market.

At the same time, do not underestimate the strength of 103.5 Kiss FM Chicago. It may not pull the kind of numbers seen by 102.7 KIIS-FM in the general ratings, but rest assured WKSC does very well with 18-34 year olds. Additionally, in the PPM era cume is just as big of a factor as shares, especially with regards to Top 40 radio. Cume-wise WKSC is number one in the general market ratings of Chicago, their cume is especially high amongst 18-34 year olds, and especially when compared to other stations in the market.

Lastly, there are PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of local, regional, and national Ad agencies that have products geared first and foremost to 18-34 year olds. Some of these products may also appeal to an older audience, but often they have a different set of commercials, with different branding and content, in them.
Try monitoring the commercials on your local A/C, your local CHR, your local Rock station, and your local News Talker. You may come across some of the same commercials, but I guarantee you'll also hear some ads you simply won't hear on the other stations.

 

[atlantaboy]

^I agree with all that - I just think it's crazy to think that Kiss Chicago or Now/Indy are doing as well as they could be doing - and tying this back to the thread, "powerplay overkill" may be hurting certain stations instead of helping them (especially the stations in Sacramento and Phoenix)