Toucher and Rich Listeners say "Big Show Worste Sports Broadcaster"

[Capps]

Im not saying they are ripping off O&A (I've been an O&A fan for years, hell I bought XM for them)....I think they have a better show that O&A to be honest. Making comments about shows they compete with is no where near their main focus of the show, its just an added bonus.

As far as Ordway's personal life, that has nothing to do with radio...while it sucks what he is going through, does that mean competitors have to give him a free ride if he is the current "marked man" at the #1 slot? Thats not how good business works.

But my question to you is why you seem to have a negative vibe about TnR (unless im completely wrong)....because I dont see it just being due to them taking on the competition

 

[Capps]

this is why i was a math major....

Was? Or GOING to be? With the way you immaturely started on Paul, I would have guessed you to be about 16.

I am a Civil Engineer actually....but I do not deny I have immature traits, but as Paul said this isn't about me, so if you have questions message me. ;D

 

[mistermicrophone]

this is why i was a math major....

Was? Or GOING to be? With the way you immaturely started on Paul, I would have guessed you to be about 16.

I am a Civil Engineer actually....but I do not deny I have immature traits, but as Paul said this isn't about me, so if you have questions message me. ;D

Nah, I just enjoy good, sarcastic banter! As for the contest, I still say it was pre-determined who was going to win. I see Paul's point of view and I see the flip-side; yeah, you don't mention the competition when you're in front, but sometimes it works when you're sniffing the top dog's arse.

My vote would've been for Tim McCarver, if he was even one of the options!!

 

[Capps]

if you would like to see the bracket:

http://www.wbcn.com/pages/2195165

 

[Neanderpaul]

On a totally different note, and to no longer bash Neaderpaul, I heard that BCN is having trouble selling tickets to River Rave.

Word I heard is 8000 sold? Out of 17,500? Seems low to me but has anyone heard anything?

50,000 for a summer radio show? Who is playing? How much are tickets? 50,000 seems unbelievable almost WHFS - circa 1999 to me...

Only because you asked:


STP
Shinedown
Saliva
Sevendust
Chevelle
Trapt
Another Animal
Saving Abel
Rev Theory
Theory Of A Deadman
Bloodsimple
10 Years
Ashes Divide
Another Black Day
Red Line Chemistry

Tickets are $30. No concession more than $5.

 

[Neanderpaul]

But my question to you is why you seem to have a negative vibe about TnR (unless im completely wrong)....because I dont see it just being due to them taking on the competition

I don't have a negative vibe about them at all. They've been successful in a tough environment.

I merely point out that it's no surprise that the #1 rated radio show in the market would be voted by listeners to win any competition. And...that it's IN MY OPINION not productive to spend your time promoting a show on another station. Especially when that show happens to be beating you regularly. Just seems like a limited payoff at best.

Doesn't matter which show, on whatever station. Do what you do. Let the other guys do their thing. And if you do decide a bit like that is what you want to do...I don't care how legitimate you claim your show is...if the guys beating you win the contest...fix the results to make it more entertaining, or silly. NEVER legitimize the top dog.

This isn't about integrity. It's about winning.

And if you're not...It's probably not a good idea to remind people who is.

My 2 cents. No malice intended toward any show at all.

 

[mistermicrophone]

if you would like to see the bracket:

http://www.wbcn.com/pages/2195165

After looking at the bracket, I feel even stronger that it was who they wanted to win. If it was a legit voting process, John Sterling (a Yankees announcer) would have had his behind handed to him by a local show on principal alone!

By the way, nice show lineup, Paul!!

 

[GovtMule1979]

If you're not the champ you want to challenge the champ. Toucher and Rich are doing a smart thing trying to stir up conversation on them and the Big Show. I don't think a T/R listener is going to jump over to AM radio and listen to 4 hours of who the Celtics should put on the bench, and who should be the Sox long man out of the pen...I do think that if a younger Ordway listener heard some of T/R that they could get roped in.

Mule

 

[GovtMule1979]

People in Boston don't hear the Yankee broadcasts enough to hate John Sterling, and the hate for the Yankees doesn't seem as deep now that they aren't on the top of the mountain. No ofense to the line up for Paul's show but the only band i'd pay 1cent to see is STP...the rest is all static to me. I'll take the Mountain Jam at Hunter Mountain over that show or River Rave.

 

[Neanderpaul]

But...why swing from their bag?

IMHO you stand a better chance of losing your listener to any other station when they click over to see if they react to your attack.

Do good radio. Get listeners. Have them recall your show. Don't give them a reason to tune out. Win.

We are in the "please love me" business. Ripping others works to a degree, but also turns a lot of people off.

And...it might tip off your listeners to something else on the radio they may not be cuming, that, if they flip over there and hang during your stopset. Or spend more than 5 minutes there, that's one less person cuming your show in that quarter hour. And lower TSL.

Doesn't anyone think about this stuff?

 

[Capps]

On a totally different note, and to no longer bash Neaderpaul, I heard that BCN is having trouble selling tickets to River Rave.

Word I heard is 8000 sold? Out of 17,500? Seems low to me but has anyone heard anything?

50,000 for a summer radio show? Who is playing? How much are tickets? 50,000 seems unbelievable almost WHFS - circa 1999 to me...

Only because you asked:


STP
Shinedown
Saliva
Sevendust
Chevelle
Trapt
Another Animal
Saving Abel
Rev Theory
Theory Of A Deadman
Bloodsimple
10 Years
Ashes Divide
Another Black Day
Red Line Chemistry

Tickets are $30. No concession more than $5.

holy butt-rock!

hope Josie Scott gets out of the BCN bathroom in time for the show

 

[readingradio]

But...why swing from their bag?

IMHO you stand a better chance of losing your listener to any other station when they click over to see if they react to your attack.

Do good radio. Get listeners. Have them recall your show. Don't give them a reason to tune out. Win.

We are in the "please love me" business. Ripping others works to a degree, but also turns a lot of people off.

And...it might tip off your listeners to something else on the radio they may not be cuming, that, if they flip over there and hang during your stopset. Or spend more than 5 minutes there, that's one less person cuming your show in that quarter hour. And lower TSL.

Doesn't anyone think about this stuff?

No. Because Boston ratings, in their current state, have NOTHING to do with cume, quarter hours or TSL. They are reflective of one thing and one thing only - what someone writes down in a diary. And if someone thinks The Big Show sucks, they will never write down that they listen to it - even if they do.

 

[Neanderpaul]

No. Because Boston ratings, in their current state, have NOTHING to do with cume, quarter hours or TSL. They are reflective of one thing and one thing only - what someone writes down in a diary. And if someone thinks The Big Show sucks, they will never write down that they listen to it - even if they do.

Hope you don't really believe that. If you do...you're doomed to fail. Arbitron doesn't care if you like the show...only that you listened. And obviously, the Big Show is #1 on all counts. Has been for a long time.

#1 most listened to in all male demos.
#1 in the money demos

...and allegedly #1 most hated sportscast.

Win.Win.Win.

People vote for what they know. And it's easy to parrot back the show most familiar to them.

Again...I believe the results of this bit only validate Arbitron, and really make it difficult for anyone to employ the "ratings are flawed" excuse. But that's just my opinion. I'm comfortable enough with it to accept it might be the wrong one.

 

[readingradio]

"Arbitron doesn't care if you like the show...only that you listened."

And if have so little understanding of Arbitron to make THAT statement, then you have no business posting on this board.

Arbitron DOES NOT MEASURE LISTENING. PPM might, but not the diary version currently used in Boston. It only records what people write down.

Having said that, I firmly believe the Big Show is the most listened to show. No one could reasonably argue with that. But, saying that ANY mention of them, negative or not, will force people to tune in and immediately translate into even bigger numbers is ridiculous. It just doesn't work like that.

And I won't even take the bait on your "doomed to fail" statement. I'm sure someone will throw those words back at you, but let's keep this about the subject at hand.

 

[Neanderpaul]

"Arbitron doesn't care if you like the show...only that you listened."

And if have so little understanding of Arbitron to make THAT statement, then you have no business posting on this board.

Arbitron DOES NOT MEASURE LISTENING. PPM might, but not the diary version currently used in Boston. It only records what people write down.

I have a very firm grasp of how audience measurement is recorded. And it's arguably flawed on more counts than accurate. However...People are conditioned to write down what they hear. And obviously, when asked, people are continuously writing down another show. Whether it be for ratings or to rip on them on another station.

I never said that referencing another show would immediately translate into ratings for them. What I said is:

"IMHO you stand a better chance of losing your listener to any other station when they click over to see if they react to your attack."

That's reality. If you give them a reason to tune out. They tune out. And sometimes, they don't come back. Meanwhile you lower the potential pool of diary recipients who listen to you.

When you're being beaten, and you send people away for any reason, that's one less who heard you. Listeners don't get quarter hours. Listeners don't get diary manipulation. Listeners get writing down what they listen to.

And if you tell them another show is bad, or attack them, they're going to check and see, and maybe even call to bait the other show into responding. So...now you've given an active listener a reason to interact with another show...whom, obviously do their jobs well enough to win, and are more than likely smart enough to try to convert your listener.

Plus...they're going to write down...I listened to station "X" all day except from 4 -4:30 when I listened to station "y." They don't know station y just captured 2 quarter hours. They just figure they only listened for a couple of breaks.

When you're cuming 190,000, and send even 10% over to instigate the other show that's 19,000 in increased cume and captured quarter hours.

Your defense actually supports my position. Listeners write down what they hear...even if it's to ridicule. And Arbitron doesn't make any distinction as to why they listen. Even moreso in the current diary methodology.

Stern manipulated this fact to his advantage. All the watchdog groups would write that they listened and were appallled by what they heard. All Arbitron saw was a lot of people wrote down Howard Stern stations.

I stand by my assertion. Do what you do. Nevermind the other guys. Don't give them any airtime on your stick. Just because they "hate" the other guy, doesn't mean they like you. Or, that they'll write you down. Lots of listeners just want their opinion heard...just want to be on the radio...will say or do anything for attention.

Or...perhaps the other show's listeners gamed the bit?

Too many risks. Too little payoff.

My humble opinion.

 

[readingradio]

Five things.

1. You say, "Plus...they're going to write down...I listened to station "X" all day except from 4 -4:30 when I listened to station "y." They don't know station y just captured 2 quarter hours."

- Completely inaccurate. People do NOT keep their diaries next to them in the car and write down when they change the station, nor at the end of they day do they write down the names of stations they hate.

2. "Listeners get writing down what they listen to."

- Listeners write down what they want people to think they're listening to.

3. "Your defense actually supports my position. Listeners write down what they hear."

- No, my point does not support yours, and listeners do not write down ALL that they hear. Listeners lie in diaries all the time when they don't want people to know they listen to stations that aren't "cool."

4. "Stern manipulated this fact to his advantage. All the watchdog groups would write that they listened and were appallled by what they heard."

- What actual knowledge do you have of this? Other than the movie Private Parts, which is not exactly an historical document.

5. How can you have all these "humble opinions" and then brag about your ratings, bonuses and 50,000 person show in the same thread?

On second thought, don't answer. This was mildly entertaining, but now it's back to (as someone else said) "pathetic."

 

[Neanderpaul]

Four things.

1. You say, "Plus...they're going to write down...I listened to station "X" all day except from 4 -4:30 when I listened to station "y." They don't know station y just captured 2 quarter hours."

- Completely inaccurate. People do NOT keep ther diaries next to them in the car and write down when they change the station, nor at the end of they day do they write down the names of stations they hate.

I've personally viewed diary comments to the contrary. I believe the exact quote was:

"I listened to WXXX last week....they suck!"

WXXX had a great book that period. Why? Because the person wrote down they listened all week.

2. "Your defense actually supports my position. Listeners write down what they hear."

- No, my point does not support yours, and listeners do not write down ALL that they hear. Listeners lie in diaries all the time when they don't want people to know they listen to stations that aren't "cool."

You're right. Listeners don't fill out diaries properly a lot of the time. So, don't give them any reason to list anyone but you. Pretty simple solution.

3. "Stern manipulated this fact to his advantage. All the watchdog groups would write that they listened and were appallled by what they heard."

- What actual knowledge do you have of this? Other than the movie "Private Parts," which is not exactly an historical
document.

3 years of employment as a talent on a Stern affiliate in Memphis. Saw the hate mail come in. Saw the organized protests on Daniel Carver Day. Saw the huge TSL from the parents watchdog group in Mississippi who had it out for him. You oughtta do a diary review sometime. Fascinating.

4. How can you have all these "humble opinions" and brag about your ratings, bonuses and 50,000 person shows in the same thread?

Usually in response to someone's misguided assertion that Boston, due to being a bigger city than some, is in some way superior to any other radio market. Funny how market size has zero to do with the quality of radio being done there. It's population-based. Not proficiency-based. But, our industry is so insecure, we have this need to swing the big microphone of market size to somehow compensate. Sad.

But....mostly because I am appreciative and proud of our station, and the opportunities afforded me by my employer. If more people were positive about what they do, and whom they work for, this forum might have a different tone. But, as it stands, nobody appreciates success, only ridicules failure.

Pretty sad overall actually.

Enjoy your day.

 

[NSPUNX]

Has anyone ever seen the "Roseanne" episode where they got selected to be a neilson family? Roseanne (who by the way is performing in Vegas and giving away a free three night stay at consolidated resorts if you didn't know!) would not let the family watch anything but P.B.S. because she wanted the nielsen people to think her family was intelligent and highbrow. I often wonder if people really think that way? That is why I truly support PPM over diaries. To much room for manipulation with diaries IMO.

Paul,

If you are under the impression that T and R's audience is going to change the station because they talk about another show then you clearly have not ever listened. Fred, Rich, and Crash have very very loyal fans thier show is not your typical "Mistress Carrie" type of show ie; "Did you see the article in the paper about the guy who got his penis cut off? Talk about losing your head! Heres Nickel Back on AAF" type of show. They make people want to listen for the whole four hours. I turn off the TV and put on the radio if I am home in the afternoon. How many shows have listeners that do that? If I owned a radio station (which I don't and maybe this is why) I would rather have 100 people who listen to the radio four hours at a time and listen to all the spots incase they miss something every day rather than 300 people who only listen for 15 minutes at a time and turn the station as soon as the spots come on. Of course that is just my opinion.

 

[Neanderpaul]

Paul,

If you are under the impression that T and R's audience is going to change the station because they talk about another show then you clearly have not ever listened. Fred, Rich, and Crash have very very loyal fans thier show is not your typical "Mistress Carrie" type of show ie; "Did you see the article in the paper about the guy who got his penis cut off? Talk about losing your head! Heres Nickel Back on AAF" type of show. They make people want to listen for the whole four hours. I turn off the TV and put on the radio if I am home in the afternoon. How many shows have listeners that do that? If I owned a radio station (which I don't and maybe this is why) I would rather have 100 people who listen to the radio four hours at a time and listen to all the spots incase they miss something every day rather than 300 people who only listen for 15 minutes at a time and turn the station as soon as the spots come on. Of course that is just my opinion.

Again...I'm sure T&R do a great show. They were successful in ATL correct? And they've done a great job of being accepted in one of the most parochial cities in America.

My commentary isn't based upon the show at all. It's just my opinion on focusing on someone else's show instead of doing yours. It's universal. Doesn't relate to any station or show. I personally don't waste my airtime talking about any other show in town. I try to keep what limited focus I employ, on things we do. But, that's just me. I'm sure T&R are doing what they do. And that's fine. I wouldn't let others' opinions dictate my program.

Nor should they. I wish them well. They're certainly targeting the biggest fish.

Hasn't worked for anyone else. Time will tell if they can make their mark.

 

[ArtSpooner]

I'm not an insider. What station is Neanderpaul on? I want to hear his show. Seriously.