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Toucher and Rich Listeners say "Big Show Worste Sports Broadcaster"

i tire of this argument: 'such and such is number 1, therefore it has to be good"

as if success and quality are the same thing. fifty million elvis fans cant be wrong.

the big show is successful for a simple reason...many people like to tune in to here there own views validated. see..i was right...tom brady is the greatest! ill be darned...sheppard also believes the yankees suck!

i tune in to the big show somewhat regularly. i find parts of it funny, even unintentionally funny. other days, like today i just cant stomach it and turn it over to npr in the hopes they many learn me something.
 
readingradio said:
- Completely inaccurate. People do NOT keep their diaries next to them in the car and write down when they change the station, nor at the end of they day do they write down the names of stations they hate.

- Listeners write down what they want people to think they're listening to.

- Listeners lie in diaries all the time when they don't want people to know they listen to stations that aren't "cool."


- What actual knowledge do you have of this?
Click to expand...

To quote you, "What actual knowledge do you have of this?" in reference to all your claims? We all know the diary system is flawed, but you can't say that EVERYTHING you outlined above happens (or doesn't happen) 100% of the time by 100% of those surveyed.
 
mistermicrophone said:
readingradio said:
- Completely inaccurate. People do NOT keep their diaries next to them in the car and write down when they change the station, nor at the end of they day do they write down the names of stations they hate.

- Listeners write down what they want people to think they're listening to.

- Listeners lie in diaries all the time when they don't want people to know they listen to stations that aren't "cool."


- What actual knowledge do you have of this?
Click to expand...

To quote you, "What actual knowledge do you have of this?" in reference to all your claims? We all know the diary system is flawed, but you can't say that EVERYTHING you outlined above happens (or doesn't happen) 100% of the time by 100% of those surveyed.
Click to expand...

Absolutely fair point. My claims are based on what I've learned from years of ratings research and information provided by programmers and conultants (some of whom are more capable than others). Nothing is absolute, but I also have seen and learned enough to know that any talk of quarter hours and TSL is next to pointless. It's a manipulation game, and the game appears to be changing.
 
PPS There is a Kansas City in Kansas

I put the Big Show on yesterday when T/R were playing a Chili Peppers or Foo Fighters song and I could not stomach it. They had FOUR people, screaming over eachother and having two conversations at the same time.

As for quality of radio in a small market, it does suck. When I travel w/out the ipod or XM I hate to listen to the local hick stations. I hate the bad radio voices, the Stairway to Zeppelin, Manditory Mettalica, Twofer Tuesdee's and all that crap. Those small markets are like the AAA and AA of radio. You either have the young prospect getting his/her feet wet, or the old local legend still making fake prank phone calls. When you're going to broadcasting school you aren't dreaming of working in East Bum**** Middle America, you want to work ing NY, LA, Atlanta, Boston, Philly....etc

Good Day
 
In defense of Neaderpaul KC is the one market that defies the argument of market size, it is the crown jewel of broadcasting. People go to NYC to be in plays, LA to be in movies and KC for afternoon radio. My argument is backed up with that Royals payroll.
 
The Big show's not #1 25-54 we beat them men 18-34 and overall 18-34. Right now we're beating them Men 18-34 and overall 18-34. We have also finished #1 Men 18-44 which is what our bonus' are based on.

However, you are the best. Not obsessed with old hometown at all.
 
crashWBCN said:
The Big show's not #1 25-54 we beat them men 18-34 and overall 18-34. Right now we're beating them Men 18-34 and overall 18-34. We have also finished #1 Men 18-44 which is what our bonus' are based on.

However, you are the best. Not obsessed with old hometown at all.
Click to expand...

My mistake. I must have been under the impression that 25-54 numbers mattered. My mistake

Never claimed to be "the best." But I'm fortunate enough to be winning. I'm good with my world. Trust me. I do my thing, and don't waste my time promoting the show that beats me.

Someday maybe you'll do the same...

It might be more beneficial than concerning yourself with my postings on a message board.
 
crashWBCN said:
...we beat them men 18-34 and overall 18-34. Right now we're beating them Men 18-34 and overall 18-34.
Click to expand...

Is this a game of "finding the demo that looks good"?

Sounds like it...
 
Ultimately, The Big Show is #1 in the demos advertisers spend the most $$$ on.

And as long as other shows continue to reinforce their presence in the market using their FM stick, that's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Again...just my opinion. If it's insignificant, feel free to dismiss it. But there's validity to the notion that telling your listeners about other radio shows, including the most popular one, on the highest rated competitor in the market, is usually a bad idea. Your show has to be incredibly well-rooted to get away with it. And I'm not certain T&R have that cache' yet. Perhaps I'm wrong. And that's very possible. But, until you know you're strong enough, it's a big risk at best with limited payoff.

And it needs to be re-stated...I have no personal animosity toward T&R. Nor, do I even know them. We've exchanged a couple of e-mails back n' forth after I heard they'd referenced me on their show. I thanked them for remembering me. They retorted "no problem" and that's as far as it goes. Far as I'm aware, all's good. This is too small an industry to burn bridges. Most know that anyway.

I will say this..IMHO WBCN's legacy far exceeds their contributions to the market. I consider WBCN, WAAF, WZLX, WEEI, and WFNX to be pioneers in their respective formats. That's why I watch to see what happens.

I've yet to recall any winning show on any of those stations taking shots at their competitors and have it pay off. O&A took shots at Parenteau, and Mark didn't diffuse the issue correctly and it ultimately cost him. I'm fairly certain Ordway & Co. won't make the same mistake.

Why acknowledge the dog nipping at your heels if they're not affecting you?

A pretty clear philosophy. And it's sound.
 
Neanderpaul said:
Ultimately, The Big Show is #1 in the demos advertisers spend the most $$$ on.

And as long as other shows continue to reinforce their presence in the market using their FM stick, that's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Again...just my opinion. If it's insignificant, feel free to dismiss it. But there's validity to the notion that telling your listeners about other radio shows, including the most popular one, on the highest rated competitor in the market, is usually a bad idea. Your show has to be incredibly well-rooted to get away with it. And I'm not certain T&R have that cache' yet. Perhaps I'm wrong. And that's very possible. But, until you know you're strong enough, it's a big risk at best with limited payoff.

And it needs to be re-stated...I have no personal animosity toward T&R. Nor, do I even know them. We've exchanged a couple of e-mails back n' forth after I heard they'd referenced me on their show. I thanked them for remembering me. They retorted "no problem" and that's as far as it goes. Far as I'm aware, all's good. This is too small an industry to burn bridges. Most know that anyway.

I will say this..IMHO WBCN's legacy far exceeds their contributions to the market. I consider WBCN, WAAF, WZLX, WEEI, and WFNX to be pioneers in their respective formats. That's why I watch to see what happens.

I've yet to recall any winning show on any of those stations taking shots at their competitors and have it pay off. O&A took shots at Parenteau, and Mark didn't diffuse the issue correctly and it ultimately cost him. I'm fairly certain Ordway & Co. won't make the same mistake.

Why acknowledge the dog nipping at your heels if they're not affecting you?

A pretty clear philosophy. And it's sound.
Click to expand...

The listeners are the ones that voted the Big Show into the Worst Sportscaster Bracket. Anyone else could have won the bracket, but the listeners had determined that the Big Show was the worst of the worst.

Just because they are competition does not mean that T&R should not include them in the bracket. It was the listeners who determined this. It was not some carefully crafted plot by T&R to get back at them.

It's really not a conspiracy theory like you're making it out to be.
 
AdamfromDorchesta said:
The listeners are the ones that voted the Big Show into the Worst Sportscaster Bracket. Anyone else could have won the bracket, but the listeners had determined that the Big Show was the worst of the worst.

Just because they are competition does not mean that T&R should not include them in the bracket. It was the listeners who determined this. It was not some carefully crafted plot by T&R to get back at them.

It's really not a conspiracy theory like you're making it out to be.
Click to expand...

A completely valid point Adam. And I repeat, T&R are, by all accounts a decent show that many people enjoy. I'm happy that you have something you enjoy listening to. Truly.

My point was never to denigrate T&R. My point remains...talking about what the other guys does rather than do what you do, is usually not smart. IMHO, the "sportscaster" bit was probably not the best topic. And giving the benefit of the doubt on the bit...Including the show that's beating them in the ratings was equally poor judgement.

But that's not my decision to make.

I'd have ignored WEEI altogether. There's no payoff to it. Honestly. The integrity of the bit is not predicated upon including WEEI. It's predicated upon making it entertaining. And the bit could have been very entertaining without including WEEI.

But...they chose to allow mentions of a show that, although some of your listeners might think "sucks"....is currently significantly higher-rated than theirs. And this fact is already reinforced bt the local papers when they do articles on ratings.

It's usually a rule that you don't expose your audience to the fact that you're not the best. It's bad radio.

All that should matter is that YOU do the best radio show in Boston. And that's universal. Doesn't matter who does the show. Especially if you do have a loyal fanbase. Those people are going to take up for you. Why give anyone another option?

Does this make sense at all to you?

It's like...why should the Red Sox care about what the Yankees do. All that matters is winning the World Series. Who cares what any other team does. You don't see Theo holding press conferences talking about how bad the Royals are. Who cares? You're the Red Sox. Even when you don't win the World Series...you do your thing. Your audience should always believe that you are the best. And you should always treat the show as if you're the best. Repetition breeds perception. Perception is always reality.

And that's my point. It's got nothing to do with T&R. They just happen to be who did the bit.

I think the bit is bad. Not the show. Is this clear enough?
 
CRASH CLARK!!!! YOU THE MAN!!! WELCOME TO THE BOARD!!! Lets hit the beachcomber for a few bears someday?

Thats the thing you don't get about T and R paul. They are like nothing else on the radio. Trying to comment on them using your experience to qualify your statements does not work. One of the things that makes them different (and makes thier fans so loyal) is thier 100% honesty with the listeners. If they are not #1 they say so, they are not afraid to admit the truth. IMO thats one reason people feel such a connection to the show, it's honest. a week or two age I was on a job in Western Mass. I could not get BCN to come in so I had to listen to Carrie on AAF. She was interviewing a trauma surgeon who was deployed in Iraq. Not only did they play an obnoxious music bed under the whole interview (whats up with dj's not being allowed to talk without music in the background over there? It's awful) which I thought was extremely innapropriate as this guy was talking about all the horroe he's seen over there and to me the music underneath was not only distracting but extremely innapropriate, but Carrie mentioned every 5 seconds how she was in Iraq and pretty much was trying to compare her experience with that of an emergency Trauma surgeon's. It felt extremely self serving, and disingenuous to me. By comparing her experience to that of this doctors IMO she was being dishonest with her audience. T and R do not do things like that, they more self deprocating than anything and its refreshing.

Apparently the old formula does not work anymore, the old rules are what has put radio in the situation it is in. Shows like T and R are throwing those old rules out the window and I admire that. Thats why I am a loyal listener. I do not want to listen to a DJ that acts like he or she exists in a vaccum where there the only station on the radio. I do not want to listen to a DJ that is so full of him or her self that all they can do is self serve, and self promote. I do not want to have to try to make out what the DJ is saying over obnoxious canned guitar riffs repeating over and over again. I listen to T and R because they act like real people, they present themselves as the regular guy that I would be buddies with, not a superior, big shot, big time, god gift to radio, type DJ.
 
Nice to meet everyone, I just wanted make a few quick points.

I think the worst sportcaster promotion was a great idea. If you pick it apart it combines several important aspects of developing and keeping a solid fan base.

First off you have listener participation which makes listeners feel they are part of a show and have something personality invested in it's success, much like how fans would root for a sports team. That's why things like instant feedback are revolutionizing radio, instead of trying complete with the internet radio that adopts the internet as a strong partner excels.

Second since sports talk radio in Boston has been a perennial stronghold of seasonal listeners (baseball season, basketball season etc..) and people who only listen during weekday games there is a huge group of floating listeners that may find interest in someone making fun of their favorite or least favorite sports caster. It's a subject that hits a partially overlapping demographic, it's not too much a stretch to attract listeners on the outskirts of the genre.

Also Toucher and Rich is a comedy show, in comedy you have to find a subject that resonates with a fan base and run with it and let's face it spots talk is an easy target just because of shear monotony of it. Sports talk radio often has to stretch for subjects because, well how long can you talk about the type of jock strap JD Drew wears.They're a comedy goldmine.

NeanderPaul:

The Red Sox should always care about what the Yankees do. Know Thy Enemy - Art Of War (paraphrase)
Every bit of knowledge about any opponent can prove useful, any advantage you can find in any competition whether it be sports or radio is still an advantage. You don't always have to take an advantage but if you're serious about winning you take all the advantages you can get. I do realize that I am applying strategies of war to something far less grave but none the less they are strategies that work.

Also Perception is not always reality, I could perceive that I own the Lakers, in reality do I own the Lakers, no.
 
Docintoxicated said:
NeanderPaul:

The Red Sox should always care about what the Yankees do. Know Thy Enemy - Art Of War (paraphrase)
Every bit of knowledge about any opponent can prove useful, any advantage you can find in any competition whether it be sports or radio is still an advantage. You don't always have to take an advantage but if you're serious about winning you take all the advantages you can get. I do realize that I am applying strategies of war to something far less grave but none the less they are strategies that work.

Also Perception is not always reality, I could perceive that I own the Lakers, in reality do I own the Lakers, no.
Click to expand...

Caring about what your competition does, and reinforcing someone else's show to your listeners are two different things. I understand keeping a close eye on your "enemies." My point was that you don't see Letterman talk about how bad Leno is. You don't hear Matty talk about the Sandbox. You hear them do their show. and they ignore everything else on the air at the time. You can be sure they're well aware of what happened on the other guy's shows that day. But, they do their gig and don't attempt to rip down the other show. All that does is give their listeners an excuse to flip over and see if the other guy responds. In this day and age of inaccurate ratings collection, it's an iffy method to employ.

I've beat this drum enough. It's well-stated, and everyone's free to disagree. I wish everyone a happy, healthy Summer.

Good to see the Celtics back in the finals. Good for Boston. Good for Basketball. And good for WRKO I bet.
 
I edited my post above and added this but then a few people posted in the time it took me to type. I just want to make sure that people dont skip over this thinking they already read it....

NSPUNX said:
Thats the thing you don't get about T and R paul. They are like nothing else on the radio. Trying to comment on them using your experience to qualify your statements does not work. One of the things that makes them different (and makes thier fans so loyal) is thier 100% honesty with the listeners. If they are not #1 they say so, they are not afraid to admit the truth. IMO thats one reason people feel such a connection to the show, it's honest. a week or two age I was on a job in Western Mass. I could not get BCN to come in so I had to listen to Carrie on AAF. She was interviewing a trauma surgeon who was deployed in Iraq. Not only did they play an obnoxious music bed under the whole interview (whats up with dj's not being allowed to talk without music in the background over there? It's awful) which I thought was extremely innapropriate as this guy was talking about all the horroe he's seen over there and to me the music underneath was not only distracting but extremely innapropriate, but Carrie mentioned every 5 seconds how she was in Iraq and pretty much was trying to compare her experience with that of an emergency Trauma surgeon's. It felt extremely self serving, and disingenuous to me. By comparing her experience to that of this doctors IMO she was being dishonest with her audience. T and R do not do things like that, they more self deprocating than anything and its refreshing.

Apparently the old formula does not work anymore, the old rules are what has put radio in the situation it is in. Shows like T and R are throwing those old rules out the window and I admire that. Thats why I am a loyal listener. I do not want to listen to a DJ that acts like he or she exists in a vaccum where there the only station on the radio. I do not want to listen to a DJ that is so full of him or her self that all they can do is self serve, and self promote. I do not want to have to try to make out what the DJ is saying over obnoxious canned guitar riffs repeating over and over again. I listen to T and R because they act like real people, they present themselves as the regular guy that I would be buddies with, not a superior, big shot, big time, god gift to radio, type DJ.
Click to expand...
 
Neanderpaul said:
Caring about what your competition does, and reinforcing someone else's show to your listeners are two different things. I understand keeping a close eye on your "enemies." My point was that you don't see Letterman talk about how bad Leno is.
Click to expand...

I get what your saying but Letterman and Leno are a terrible example because their format is set and has been set since the beginning, people expect a monologue, a bit, guests, and a music act. Not much talk and a very limited space. Also since Leno in Letterman are basically are sole competitors and have limited material on each other addressing each other would become redundant fast. People also don't tune into shows like Leno or Letterman for drama or rivalry that's just not the late night format, they try to do feel good TV.
 
NSPUNX said:
Thats the thing you don't get about T and R paul. They are like nothing else on the radio. Trying to comment on them using your experience to qualify your statements does not work. One of the things that makes them different (and makes thier fans so loyal) is thier 100% honesty with the listeners. If they are not #1 they say so, they are not afraid to admit the truth. IMO thats one reason people feel such a connection to the show, it's honest. a week or two age I was on a job in Western Mass. I could not get BCN to come in so I had to listen to Carrie on AAF. She was interviewing a trauma surgeon who was deployed in Iraq. Not only did they play an obnoxious music bed under the whole interview (whats up with dj's not being allowed to talk without music in the background over there? It's awful) which I thought was extremely innapropriate as this guy was talking about all the horroe he's seen over there and to me the music underneath was not only distracting but extremely innapropriate, but Carrie mentioned every 5 seconds how she was in Iraq and pretty much was trying to compare her experience with that of an emergency Trauma surgeon's. It felt extremely self serving, and disingenuous to me. By comparing her experience to that of this doctors IMO she was being dishonest with her audience. T and R do not do things like that, they more self deprocating than anything and its refreshing.

Apparently the old formula does not work anymore, the old rules are what has put radio in the situation it is in. Shows like T and R are throwing those old rules out the window and I admire that. Thats why I am a loyal listener. I do not want to listen to a DJ that acts like he or she exists in a vaccum where there the only station on the radio. I do not want to listen to a DJ that is so full of him or her self that all they can do is self serve, and self promote. I do not want to have to try to make out what the DJ is saying over obnoxious canned guitar riffs repeating over and over again. I listen to T and R because they act like real people, they present themselves as the regular guy that I would be buddies with, not a superior, big shot, big time, god gift to radio, type DJ.
Click to expand...
[/quote]

I get that completely. Honesty makes sense. Being real makes sense. I understand why you like T&R. Enjoy.
 
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