Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on it.

[WPPCProductions]

I see now the tunerless dvd recorders and vcrs are out on the store shelves now. not cheap,Now I can see some old lady picking one up at Wal-Mart and trying to hook it up to cable or rabbitt ears. Yeah ok.due to poor training of the help at any store including Circuit City,Radio Shack and Bestbuy about the transition to dtv and the $40.00 dollar box coupon.Ok now I have a question,I geuss muiltable timed dvd,vcr setting are out the window on different channels are out with that kind of set up.
can anyone on here shed some light on these tunerless recorders please.

 

[TexasTom]

They dropped the tuner to save money in response to the digital tuner mandate. Federal regulations now require that any device with a built in analog TV tuner must also have a digital tuner -- some manufacturers chose to comply with that requirement by dropping the tuner completely.

 

[WPPCProductions]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

Oh ok thanks, I see, I will wait to later in the year to get some new equipment.I want to be ready with builtin dtv tuner recorders when the transition comes due.

 

[FloydB]

I would presume that they are primarily designed for digital cable/satellite users. With DirecTV and Comcast digital, you can program the receiver to tune to certain programs via the guide. That, of course, still has to have the recorder to have a programmable record function, since say you left your house at 3pm, and your favorite show is on channel X at 8pm, your second favorite show on channel Y at 9pm, etc. Unless it's a 48-hrs recordable DVR, you ain't got enough time on your data once you hit "record" just before you leave your house.

That's also another question about the DTV switchover. One of the big "plusses" when this whole fiasco started was that stations would also be able to broadcast data (i.e. programming grid) on the digital channels without disturbing the stream. Question: Will they do it?

 

[WPPCProductions]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

Heres another good question.could broadcasters send DRM anticopy code in the bitstream,in say if I want to make copies of a tv show for other family members or archive a favorite show. The MPAA,RIAA and other rights holders will love to see that happen. Now I can see an updated version of the betamax case.

 

[tripinva]

Heres another good question.could broadcasters send DRM anticopy code in the bitstream,in say if I want to make copies of a tv show for other family members or archive a favorite show. The MPAA,RIAA and other rights holders will love to see that happen. Now I can see an updated version of the betamax case.

It's called "the broadcast flag" and has been approved and then shot down and then I haven't heard about it again in a while.

- Trip

 

[MotoMuzak]

Trip, WPPC~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag

"Officially called 'Digital Broadcast Television Redistribution Control,' the FCC's rule is in 47 CFR 73.9002(b) and the following sections, stating in part: 'No party shall sell or distribute in interstate commerce a Covered Demodulator Product that does not comply with the Demodulator Compliance Requirements and Demodulator Robustness Requirements.' According to the rule, hardware must 'actively thwart' piracy.

The rule's Demodulator Compliance Requirements insists that all HDTV demodulators must 'listen' for the flag (or assume it to be present in all signals). Flagged content must be output only to 'protected outputs' (such as DVI and HDMI ports with HDCP encryption), or in degraded form through analog outputs or digital outputs with visual resolution of 720x480 pixels (EDTV) or less. Flagged content may be recorded only by 'authorized' methods, which may include tethering of recordings to a single device."



Scary stuff I think; would have essentially rendered my $300 DVD recorder with ATSC tuner worthless if it actually became widespread reality! Unfortunately there's nothing much (that I can see) stopping the **AA's or whomever else from trying to bring this un-necessary piece of dead legislation back to life, either. Apparently there have been a couple of attempts in recent times.

 

[w9wi]

That's also another question about the DTV switchover. One of the big "plusses" when this whole fiasco started was that stations would also be able to broadcast data (i.e. programming grid) on the digital channels without disturbing the stream. Question: Will they do it?

They're required to do it. A program guide is part of the ATSC standard, and the FCC has indicated we're expected to implement all of it. Here in Nashville compliance is pretty good.

More recently, they've also announced they expect the program guide to be kept up-to-date - even during live programming.

 

[anotherguyTN]

Could another factor in the DVD recorders and VCRs without tuners be because the manufacturers believe that it will become where the majority of TV viewers will have some sort of converter box, and that tuners won't be as necessary? I know that 2 of the 3 sets I have on cable have tuner boxes and the third one will probably have one before the year is over because of the conversion to digital.

 

[raccoonradio]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

I just got a tunerless DVD recorder for my birthday. Have hooked it up and hopefully it should work. My
cable doesn't have a converter box but I'm using the VCR as a tuner:

--Cable connection to VCR
--VCR to DVD recorder
--DVD recorder to TV
Hopefully it should record this way, or I may have to get a converter box. Maybe I will need a box due to
the dropping of analog signals? From what I've heard, "cable subscribers shouldn't need to get a digital
converter" but maybe I'll need to get a cable _box_...?
I have comcast but not a digital tier (expanded basic)

 

[WPPCProductions]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

I just got a tunerless DVD recorder for my birthday. Have hooked it up and hopefully it should work. My
cable doesn't have a converter box but I'm using the VCR as a tuner:

--Cable connection to VCR
--VCR to DVD recorder
--DVD recorder to TV
Hopefully it should record this way, or I may have to get a converter box. Maybe I will need a box due to
the dropping of analog signals? From what I've heard, "cable subscribers shouldn't need to get a digital
converter" but maybe I'll need to get a cable _box_...?
I have comcast but not a digital tier (expanded basic)

Thats a good setup,Mine is the same way and also the same cable company,I will
take two dtv boxes anyway for backups incase of cable tv outages,I should recommend everyone at lease to get one dtv box.anyway which I'm lucky to not to have to many of here.also I canl use them to repair old tv's and vcr's at my storage garage. I have no cable there.When the manufacturers get up to speed
about a year from now or so. the tunerless equipment probably would be obsolete.The prices on them probably crash,Thats when I will get one for dubbing 100's and 100's of video tapes to dvd's.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I've been told by people from Charter in my area that by this time next year everyone will need a converter box even for basic service unless they have a digital set. I think the only analog channels that will be left will be the local channels in the so-called "lifeline basic" service.

 

[FloydB]

Nope. After February nothing will be analog. Either get digital converter box or a digital TV.

 

[tripinva]

Nope. After February nothing will be analog. Either get digital converter box or a digital TV.

Not true at all. Cable is unaffected (though some cable companies will change over to all-digital to coincide with it), and neither are LPTV stations (though some may choose to switch over on their own).

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

Nope. After February nothing will be analog. Either get digital converter box or a digital TV.

Not true.

Cable is required to continue to provide must-carry signals in analog form for another two years.

Now, that only affects the OTA stations - they can flip non-OTA stations like CNN and Discovery to digital. And they can in theory comply by providing digital converter boxes at no charge, though I doubt many (any?) systems will do it that way.

(also, low-power OTA stations are not required to convert yet, but unless you're in a rural area where the Big 3 networks are on translators, chances are you're not going to be happy with LP stations as your only viewing option.)

 

[fybush]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

Meanwhile, getting back to the topic of the thread, I think the "tunerless" VCRs and DVD/VCR combos are slowly fading after their year or so on the shelves. I was in one of my few remaining local K-Marts today, and the fairly sparse selection on the shelves had a couple of tunerless VCRs and combos, and the first VCR/DVD recorder combo I've seen so far to boast an ATSC tuner. That actually came as something of a surprise - as fast as VHS is fading, why bother equipping a VHS machine with a DTV tuner? I would have expected to see at least one DVD recorder (sans VHS) with an ATSC tuner, but I guess that's not happening yet - at least not at K-Mart.

 

[FloydB]

Nope. After February nothing will be analog. Either get digital converter box or a digital TV.

Not true at all. Cable is unaffected (though some cable companies will change over to all-digital to coincide with it),

Most cable companies are already converting and will be by the time of the switch, and they're also claiming that you'll need a converter box to receive their channels. So, yeah, cable will also be digital. The sad thing is, that most subscribers are already digital and don't think they are (they don't associate it with the "cable box" on their TVs), so they think they're going to get a better reception. So sad, too bad.

and neither are LPTV stations (though some may choose to switch over on their own).

- Trip

Who really cares about them anyway, except for their "flock"?

 

[jegrant]

Re: Tunerless DVD recorders and vcrs. Hey Jack, I can't find the channel knob on

In some communities, LPTV stations actually provide major network service for an entire DMA. Look at South Bend, their ABC station is an LPTV. However, in this case, the owners are not holding back on the digital transition. They already have a companion digital channel set up.