Utah Mammoth and Vegas Golden Knights Round 1 Stanley Cup Playoffs Local Broadcast in Phoenix

[Mediafrog+]

The Vet could have been updated or torn down and rebuilt completely. The location was the important feature. Complete loss of vision here.

An eventual replacement of the Suns’ current arena (whatever they’re calling it this week) is probably the best chance for the NHL to return to Arizona, but that scenario is at least a dozen years away.

The WHA was never a direct rival to the NHL. That entire league had a few teams and about a dozen marquee players (Bobby Hull being one example). They were barely one notch above an NHL farm team.

Disagree. At its peak in 1974-75 the WHA had 14 teams, while the NHL had just expanded to 18 teams. There was a constant battle for talent, and many WHA players had extensive NHL experience, including some top stars. The WHA also signed many European players, something the NHL had refused to do in that era. Some later NHL stars got their start in the WHA.

Admittedly some of the WHA teams were a Gong Show, but the NHL had its share of dumpster fires in those days.

Bringing this back to the focus of this forum: There are a surprising number of partial and complete WHA game broadcasts available on YouTube if you do some digging. Fascinating relics of hockey and sports TV history.

 

[desertaire]

Remember, the Coyotes were originally a tenant in the Suns' arena...they complained about the sight lines and seating. Therefore they moved to Glendale.
More than likely some facility will be built along the 101 on Salt River tribal land (like Salt river Fields). It is the "center" of the Phx freeway system if you look at a map.

 

[landtuna]

Disagree. At its peak in 1974-75 the WHA had 14 teams, while the NHL had just expanded to 18 teams. There was a constant battle for talent, and many WHA players had extensive NHL experience, including some top stars.

The WHA was essentially a league built from former farm teams with a small smattering of marquee players jumping from the NHL. In no way was it the quality rival of the NHL. As you mention, there were some European players who got their start in the WHA and became stars later after the "merger". There were also a very few new WHA players who made it big in the NHL - I'm thinking of a kid named Gretzky who began with the Indy Racers but these were few and far between.

 

[landtuna]

Remember, the Coyotes were originally a tenant in the Suns' arena...they complained about the sight lines and seating. Therefore they moved to Glendale.
More than likely some facility will be built along the 101 on Salt River tribal land (like Salt river Fields). It is the "center" of the Phx freeway system if you look at a map.

America West Arena, as it was known then, was a very poor hockey venue. It was built for basketball with no adjustments possible for the larger playing surface of hockey. Although the Glendale Arena was a better hockey facility it was located in an area not convenient to the normal weekday evening hockey games and within a geography which was not full of hockey fans. A very poor location for a sport that has other than Sunday games.

As far as a new facility, I'm pretty sure that will be an uphill fight. Tempe has already voted down two locations and Snottsdale is not apparently interested in anything other than retail and restaurants. Build it too far north and you have the same problem as did Glendale. If I were to take a guess I would say the only other attractive location would be on the Indian reservation east of the 101 and obviously the Indians would have much to say about that type of development. Not as convenient but another possibility is tribal land south of the 202 but, again, that would take significant interest by tribal business interests. I don't see that as very likely.

 

[KeithE4]

Remember, the Coyotes were originally a tenant in the Suns' arena...they complained about the sight lines and seating. Therefore they moved to Glendale.

The owner at the time, Steve Ellman (IIRC) owned Los Arcos Mall in Scottsdale, which was being torn down, and that large piece of land along the Loop 101 in Glendale that also included the future Arizona Cardinals stadium site.

The City of Scottsdale has rejected allowing hockey in their "fair" city twice, that time and a couple years ago on land that is technically within the city limits of Phoenix. The deal that was worked out with Glendale was that the arena could be built there, but only if Wayne Gretzky was hired as their coach. Otherwise, the team would have been moved to Portland OR.

Glendale, or anywhere west of Central Ave. for that matter, was always a poor choice for hockey, although it works just fine for the Cardinals. It's less affluent and heavily Hispanic. Less-affluent is OK because hockey is very much a blue collar sport, and yes, there are many Hispanics that love hockey. But that's not acceptable to the NHL or the City of Snobsdale. Major league sports want to be where most of the money is, and that area is Snobsdale/Paradise Valley. With the exception of a few pockets of wealth in various parts of the Valley (Ahwatukee Foothills, northeast Mesa, Carefree, Gold Canyon, parts of Gilbert and Chandler), there is little real money in metro Phoenix.

More than likely some facility will be built along the 101 on Salt River tribal land (like Salt river Fields). It is the "center" of the Phx freeway system if you look at a map.

Possibly, but I won't hold my breath. The Salt River folks are talking about building a new casino complex in that area that would replace Casino Arizona. Maybe they could be talked into a hockey arena as part of it.

The other possibility is tearing down the current Suns arena and building a new one that is designed for both basketball and hockey. With the Diamondbacks now staying at Chase Field, it would work out. But would hockey work downtown? I think the area near the 101/202/McKellips Rd. area would be better, combined with the Casino Arizona replacement. The Talking Stick area might (actually, would) result in legal action from Snobsdale to prevent it. A month of Spring Training is one thing. Six months (at least) of hockey and "that element" is another.

 

[KeithE4]

There were also a very few new WHA players who made it big in the NHL - I'm thinking of a kid named Gretzky who began with the Indy Racers but these were few and far between.

Gretzky had a cup of coffee with the Racers, playing in 8 of the team's 25 games in 1978. After his contract was sold to Edmonton, the team folded in December of that year.

 

[TheBigA]

But would hockey work downtown?

If it's a winning team, it will work downtown.

 

[Mediafrog+]

The WHA was essentially a league built from former farm teams

There were only two WHA teams that were "upgraded" by their ownership from minor league teams to WHA franchises: The Phoenix Roadrunners in 1974 and the ill-fated Denver Spurs in 1975. Both organizations had been in the old Western Hockey League (WHL) and kept their identities in the WHA.

All the other WHA franchises were new creations.

 

[landtuna]

There were only two WHA teams that were "upgraded" by their ownership from minor league teams to WHA franchises: The Phoenix Roadrunners in 1974 and the ill-fated Denver Spurs in 1975. Both organizations had been in the old Western Hockey League (WHL) and kept their identities in the WHA.

All the other WHA franchises were new creations.

I should have said "players" and not "teams".

 

[KeithE4]

If it's a winning team, it will work downtown.

But it'll be an expansion team, even if it is one that keeps the old Coyotes' uniforms, logos, and traditions (see also: Cleveland Browns). VGN's Stanley Cup appearance in its first season, a win in 2023, and a playoff appearance in every season but one, is an anomaly. Most teams stink their first few years. Throw in inept ownership, which is a Phoenix sports tradition other than Jerry Colangelo, and I think you're being optimistic.

 

[TheBigA]

I think you're being optimistic.

Somebody has to be an optimist, or nothing ever happens. It's easier to just leave it as status quo. That's why the team is in Utah.

 

[landtuna]

Somebody has to be an optimist, or nothing ever happens. It's easier to just leave it as status quo. That's why the team is in Utah.

The other significant factor, which should not be ignored, is the pull by SEG to get a team in SLC. The Coyotes many problems with their arena and other endless ownership issues arrived at that critical juncture. SEG has done a great job with the relocation and support of the team and has had much greater support from the general public than they ever did in Phoenix (and hello Phoenix media - I'm also talking to you).

 

[Mediafrog+]

But it'll be an expansion team, even if it is one that keeps the old Coyotes' uniforms, logos, and traditions

From reading posts on hockey forums, there is a school of thought that the Coyotes brand has been so badly damaged that any future Arizona expansion team should go with a fresh identity.

VGN's Stanley Cup appearance in its first season, a win in 2023, and a playoff appearance in every season but one, is an anomaly.

Expansion rules changed. New teams are no longer restricted to the bottom tier players, and VGK did an excellent job of signing free agents.

50+ years ago the first year New York Islanders (1972) and Washington Capitals (1974) were truly horrible teams.

SEG has done a great job with the relocation and support of the team and has had much greater support from the general public than they ever did in Phoenix

SEG has done an excellent job with the Mammoth. The NHL is probably privately kicking itself for not making this move many years earlier.

 

[brian4]

The other possibility is tearing down the current Suns arena and building a new one that is designed for both basketball and hockey. With the Diamondbacks now staying at Chase Field, it would work out. But would hockey work downtown? I think the area near the 101/202/McKellips Rd. area would be better, combined with the Casino Arizona replacement. The Talking Stick area might (actually, would) result in legal action from Snobsdale to prevent it. A month of Spring Training is one thing. Six months (at least) of hockey and "that element" is another.

Hopefully this option will happen. The Suns don't have any problems attracting an audience and the Coyotes would do well downtown. Mortgage Matchup is currently the fourth oldest NBA arena. Sure, over the years there have been fresh coats of paint but a new arena is needed. Follow the Detroit model: Little Caesars Arena is downtown and host both Pistons and Red Wings. Side note: Comerica Park (Tigers) and Ford Field (Lions) are basically across the street from LCA.

 

[TheBigA]

I post this story here because this is what I felt was needed for Phoenix in terms of bringing back the Coyotes:

TKO, Arizona Sports & Events Alliance Strike Deal for Marquee UFC, WWE, PBR Events

"We look forward to creating unforgettable moments for fans across the region over the next three years.”

barrettmedia.com

This kind of activity leads to thinking about new arenas, which leads to thinking about other sports, such as hockey.

What Remains Unclear: Which events, specifically, from which entities will be held in Arizona. The Phoenix area has several options to host major events. State Farm Stadium, the 63,000-seat home of the Arizona Cardinals, is one option. Other venue options include Chase Field (home of the Arizona Diamondbacks), and Mortgage Market Arena (home of the Phoenix Suns). The 20,000-seat Desert Diamond Arena also currently hosts a PBR event on the schedule.

So the venue discussion has already begun.

 

[landtuna]

I would not call any of the aforementioned actual "sports" and seven events over the next three years is hardly headline material.

If I wanted to view a real fight between humans I'd just head down to the Dew Drop Inn and hit the biggest, ugliest guy there between the legs with a pool que and watch the fun ensue.

The stations could save themselves a ton of money by opening up their studios on Saturday afternoon and watch the goons hit each other over the head with folding chairs.

 

[desertaire]

Hopefully this option will happen. The Suns don't have any problems attracting an audience and the Coyotes would do well downtown. Mortgage Matchup is currently the fourth oldest NBA arena. Sure, over the years there have been fresh coats of paint but a new arena is needed. Follow the Detroit model: Little Caesars Arena is downtown and host both Pistons and Red Wings. Side note: Comerica Park (Tigers) and Ford Field (Lions) are basically across the street from LCA.

Except the Suns would have to temporarily move if they tore out the Suns arena. There is really very little land left Downtown for any new sports facility.

 

[landtuna]

The Suns don't have any problems attracting an audience and the Coyotes would do well downtown.

Whatever team in whatever sport needs to have at least a break even win-loss record or Phoenix fans will not support them. The Coyotes miserable experience with management, coaching and player performance guaranteed an uphill climb to respectability. The killer was their arena location - a guaranteed fail.

I would not call the Suns or the Cardinals successful in that respect but both have corporate and media support, something the Coyotes lacked.

 

[Sammi Brie]

The Coyotes and Meruelo burned bridges on their way out. They grated on people to the point that nobody that wasn't a hockey fan — especially in government — wanted to see them succeed. The team struggled on-ice, the Suns had a run of success which siphoned eyeballs and attention, and while the West Valley is now the growth engine of the Valley, that was not the case when it mattered for the Coyotes.

 

[brian4]

I post this story here because this is what I felt was needed for Phoenix in terms of bringing back the Coyotes:

TKO, Arizona Sports & Events Alliance Strike Deal for Marquee UFC, WWE, PBR Events

"We look forward to creating unforgettable moments for fans across the region over the next three years.”

barrettmedia.com

This kind of activity leads to thinking about new arenas, which leads to thinking about other sports, such as hockey.


So the venue discussion has already begun.

I'm a huge WWE fan. Phoenix/Glendale has hosts several events including Wrestlemania (2010 at State Farm Stadium) and the Royal Rumble (2019 at Chase Field). Both had assorted ancillary events from Thursday to Tuesday and were well attended.