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WCBS #1 IN BIG APPLE....AND THE BAY HAS NO CLASSIC HITS/OLDIES STATION??

A

airpab

Makes alot of sense, doesn't it? The 4th biggest market in the country and no Classic Hits/Oldies??

Can't count The Band....A life-less retread, classic-rock bore!

KRTH/L.A. scores big....KOOL/PHX scores big....WOGL/PHILLY scores big....Q-105/Tampa scores big....The Walrus/San Diego scores big....and the list goes on! And they score in the all important PPM's!!

Whoever wakes up and jumps on this format first in the Bay....Wins Big!
 
Couldn't agree more. And we have such a large pool of potential talent for a success story that would make those other markets jealous..
 
I don't disagree that the Bay Area needs a Classic Hits station...at least, I'd like to have one. But let's see if I can sum up the anti-Classic Hits argument:

1. Bay Area listeners are different. The failures of the last 2 versions of KFRC (especially 106.9) prove that Classic Hits doesn't work here.

2. Because there are so many other stations here whose formats are some version of classic rock mixed with classic hits (KFOG, The Band, The Bone, KOIT for "Light Rock Oldies," KBLX, KISQ, etc)., there is no real market left for the dedicated format.

3. Even though CBS-FM New York is number one, and KRTH rates highly, their ratings are not as good in the important demographics that adverstisers are targetting - especially 25-54.

4. Because of reason #3, Classic Hits stations do not bill that well. For example stations like W_ _ _ in New York and KIIS-FM in Los Angeles bill X% higher.

5. Nobody but older listeners were around for the old Top 40 stations of the 60s and 70s (Drake format, etc.), so not many listeners enjoy hearing old fashioned Top 40 style DJs, Bill Mann jingles, and similar fomatics.

I'll leave it for the professional and more sophisticated to fill in the blanks, but that's the jist of the 'con' argument that gets repeated every ratings period.
 
It would work here if someone did it the right way. Congratulations to Brian Thomas, Bill Lee, & Ron Parker, all who worked here in SF for a while for this success. BTW, if you have the right sales people, you can make money selling stations in other demos besides 25-54.
 
Lkeller said:
3. Even though CBS-FM New York is number one, and KRTH rates highly, their ratings are not as good in the important demographics that adverstisers are targetting - especially 25-54.
Click to expand...

CBS FM is a tight #2 in 25-54, and gaining. LA has been as high as 6th in 25-54 recently, not bad in a market that is over 70% immigrant or ethnic.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Lkeller said:
3. Even though CBS-FM New York is number one, and KRTH rates highly, their ratings are not as good in the important demographics that adverstisers are targetting - especially 25-54.
Click to expand...

CBS FM is a tight #2 in 25-54, and gaining. LA has been as high as 6th in 25-54 recently, not bad in a market that is over 70% immigrant or ethnic.
Click to expand...

So that's good news, and implies that there is some life left in the fogey-format, after all. If done right, of course.
 
an "Oldies" station in S.F. could easily work..."if done right", whatever that means...it would work regardless IF the station is FM, has a good signal & is marketed. A company would have to give it some time to grow...it's a slow grow when you don't have the heritage of a station like WCBS-FM.
KFRC-FM did fail on 106.9 last go-round, but if it had been left on the air, right now I'm sure it would be kicking butt. It doesn't matter if the "group" here didn't like it or not. Yeah, they could have done this or that differently, but it wasn't a bad station...not even close. Try succeeding when you're on a frequency that NO average person in the bay area knew existed, no history of listeners what-so-ever...and then throw in a ballgame for 6 hours everyday for 6 months, from a team that has NEVER had a radio audience. Good luck with that! It was doomed from the start. If that same station (KFRC 106.9) had been on 99.7, it would have been huge.
 
The A's added cume on KSFO/KYA back when they won the series, and later on KABL. The trouble is that the listeners generally were only there for the games, and the games pissed off the core listeners to the station that were there for the music. Other than that, I agree with what Norcalvet said.
 
Here's the biggest difference I see. CBS-FM in New York is an established brand. Yeah, they screwed up, abandoned their audience and became "Jack" for a while, but they switched back...and made their old audience feel like it was because of them. They weren't gone long enough for people to stop caring.

K-Earth in L.A. has been oldies for more than 25 years and has had a consistent sound for 18 (since Drake himself consulted in '92).

But KFRC has this history of abandoning its audience. Forget from all-hits under Michael Spears to near-AOR/no disco under Les Garland to heavily urban under Gerry Cagle to The Game Zone to Magic 61....let's just deal with KFRC-FM as an oldies station since 1991: Good, but not a monster, for about 10 years...they finally click with Bobby Ocean in afternoon drive...get into the Top 5 in Arbitron...then tell him they can't pay him what they've been paying him.

The numbers begin to slide (note to management: This means the audience doesn't like you as much as before), and finally slide so much that KFRC becomes Movin'. And then...KFRC-FM comes back (based largely on the music from the Michael Spears/Les Garland era)....and no one listens. And then it's gone again...replaced by a simulcast of KCBS-AM....but continuing to use the KFRC calls (as does the abysmal "Real Oldies" on AM).

Even if you did it and did it right (which my gut tells me would involve displacing Movin' and putting KFRC-FM on 99.7 again...and Movin's numbers look too good to do that), it would take years before you convinced the market you meant it this time. You'd probably have better credibility branding it KYUU instead of KFRC (more relevance within the demo, too).

But again, I doubt anyone at CBS wants to change Movin'.

"Alice" seems to be bleeding cume and share...maybe the thing to do is to blow it up, pull the KCBS-FM calls back from Los Angeles ("Jack" doesn't really need them), and do classic hits as 97.3 CBS-FM.
 
michael hagerty said:
Here's the biggest difference I see. CBS-FM in New York is an established brand. Yeah, they screwed up, abandoned their audience and became "Jack" for a while, but they switched back...and made their old audience feel like it was because of them. They weren't gone long enough for people to stop caring.

K-Earth in L.A. has been oldies for more than 25 years and has had a consistent sound for 18 (since Drake himself consulted in '92).

But KFRC has this history of abandoning its audience. Forget from all-hits under Michael Spears to near-AOR/no disco under Les Garland to heavily urban under Gerry Cagle to The Game Zone to Magic 61....let's just deal with KFRC-FM as an oldies station since 1991: Good, but not a monster, for about 10 years...they finally click with Bobby Ocean in afternoon drive...get into the Top 5 in Arbitron...then tell him they can't pay him what they've been paying him.

The numbers begin to slide (note to management: This means the audience doesn't like you as much as before), and finally slide so much that KFRC becomes Movin'. And then...KFRC-FM comes back (based largely on the music from the Michael Spears/Les Garland era)....and no one listens. And then it's gone again...replaced by a simulcast of KCBS-AM....but continuing to use the KFRC calls (as does the abysmal "Real Oldies" on AM).

Even if you did it and did it right (which my gut tells me would involve displacing Movin' and putting KFRC-FM on 99.7 again...and Movin's numbers look too good to do that), it would take years before you convinced the market you meant it this time. You'd probably have better credibility branding it KYUU instead of KFRC (more relevance within the demo, too).

But again, I doubt anyone at CBS wants to change Movin'.

"Alice" seems to be bleeding cume and share...maybe the thing to do is to blow it up, pull the KCBS-FM calls back from Los Angeles ("Jack" doesn't really need them), and do classic hits as 97.3 CBS-FM.
Click to expand...

All interesting and relevant comments, Michael. A couple of notes: 99.7's numbers were on the rise again just months before they jettisoned Classic Hits for MOViN. When the station flipped from Oldies to Classic Hits, they briefly (and disasterously) went for a weird Light Rock Classic Hits format that would have bored drying paint. Then they got smart, went to mainstream Classic Hits, and hired a couple of good jocks - notably Jo Jo Kincaid. Too bad they didn't give it some time, but MOViN was the flavor of the week then.

The format on 99.7 now is still called "Movin' " but has little in common with the original MOViN format. It's more of a "Wild" 99.7, if anything.

Travis may be right - last I heard, Live 105's ratings are worse than Alice's, which has a hot morning show, and seems to attract a desirable demographic.

Because of the reasons you've enumerated, the umpteenth revival of KFRC might be a dud. Those historic call letters might be an albatross at this point. And CBS doesn't own the format, after all. I'd look for a low rated station with other owners to make the switch. For example, Entercom's country station "The Wolf" (95.7) has done a good job of putting together an entertaining format with good DJs. The problem is...well...they play country music in the Bay Area. I'm not sure how their ratings are looking these days, though. Another possibility - Clear Channel's The Band (KKSF -) could morph into Classic Hits without too much tweaking.
 
Three things
1.didn't 95.7 have OK ratings when it was the Jack-Fm like 95.7 Max FM? I seem to remember that Max FM picked up most of KFRC's audience when 99.7 became MOViN.I think the only reason why the switch to country happened was because 95.7 was sold to Entercom
2.like Lkeller mentioned MOViN 99.7 has little in common with the station it started as.When it begin CBS had a few MOViN stations around the country,now KMVQ is the only one left, they might as well pick up the Amp brand used in Los Angeles and one other city (I think its Detroit)
3.The band could very easily become a classic hits station, for most of its run it has been riding the line between a Classic Rock and a Classic Hits station the same way The Bone has been riding the line between a Classic Rock station and a Modern Rock Station
 
I went for 97.3 over KITS because of its signal, which at least used to be superior. If it's not anymore, then yes, KITS is in worse shape.

And I stuck with CBS stations because our two examples of other-market success (CBS-FM and KRTH) are also CBS. If they can keep it up, they could become to classic hits what RKO once was to top 40.
 
Clear Channel, this is your time to shine! Flip 98.1 from your so-called "rhythmic AC" format and replace it with Oldies/Classic Hits.
 
there is classic hits/oldies stations in the bay area. 103.7 hd2, 106.9 hd2 and 96.5 hd2
 
sfradio said:
there is classic hits/oldies stations in the bay area. 103.7 hd2, 106.9 hd2 and 96.5 hd2
Click to expand...

And the number of people with HD recievers......................

This topic started with how the format is a huge success on full-signal FMs in other markets.
 
Too bad not many people in the bay area have HD radios and the formats are nothing but automated jukeboxes without any personality! BORING!
 
musicman3355 said:
Clear Channel, this is your time to shine! Flip 98.1 from your so-called "rhythmic AC" format and replace it with Oldies/Classic Hits.
Click to expand...

98.1 was "rhythmic AC" for about a minute and a half. They went back very quickly to R&B hits of the 70s - a few 80s and 90s hits thrown in - just like before. And their new positioner is "The Bay's Old School"...or is it Skool?

It would seem like Kiss-Fm would be splitting the audience with the very similar and higher rated KBLX, but I guess Clear Channel is satisfied with it.
 
IMO it has to do with air personalities..I listen online and there is alot of listener interaction almost like a bunch of youngsters calling in on a current top 40 and talking to the DJ and inquiring when to call in to win...Having Bill Lee is a huge boost being a fixture in the New York scene for many years and up until recently being top dog on a current music formatted station (KTU-FM). There playlist is much more broader than KFRC's ever was...That format can survive if they do it right, trouble is they never do.
 
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