WDEL- Wilmington and Suburban Philly's Oldies Station???

[MikefromDelaware]

I had segwayed into this on the 1260 live post and realized this should be it's own topic. Here goes. As WDEL doesn't appear to be doing very well as a live and local news/talk station against WILM with Rush/Hannity, why not become the Wilmington and Suburban Philly Oldies station. WOGL no longer can call themselves an Oldies station and WVLT doesn't come in very well in the Wilmington area or in Suburban Philly. Sounds like a niche market that a station like WDEL with its great signal could capitalize on.

I'd make the musical timeline run from mid 1950's to mid 1970's no disco, leaning mostly on 60's-mid 70's (all varieties of oldies from Pop, British invasion, Motown, folk, etc) and using the mid 50's less often as oh wow songs. Even if they only had live jocks during morning and afternoon drive and aired ABC Oldies or something like that during the midday parts. However, it would be better to stay live and local with possibly a phone in request show during the mid-day afternoon prior to PM drive. They could air CBS hourly news with WDEL local news during the day parts. WDEL could be a great station to listen to at work and on weekends, in my opinion. Have the Allen Loudell News Report with his live interviews, etc, at 6pm and then maybe at 7pm go to the bird for more ABC Oldies or satellite talk along with the local high school sports as well as the Phillies and the Eagles that WDEL currently does. Weekends could stay as local rummage world talk and then go to the bird for the Oldies again keeping the cost down. Sunday's do their religous programmng and then to the bird for more Oldies. Maybe do a live and local phone in request show on Saturday nights (8pm-12mid).

That would probably be a far less expensive format and would probably generate solid listenership and possibly solid spot support as well. Both Oldies and News/Talk formats skew to an older audience anyhow, why try to beat the Rush/Hannity format with live and local talk or second tiered satellite talk when you could pull in a completely different audience that is underserved in the Philly/Wilmington markets by airing Oldies. Any thoughts?

 

[WTUX]

Given the failure rate of this idea, it would be impossible to sell radio owners/management on it. WSAI and WWKB (the old WKBW) gave it a good shot. Lasted a year or two, then died. Of course, locally, we have the WAMS example, but they definitely did not give it a "good shot". Amateur Hour hardly counts as a "good shot."

It is hard to rate WOGL-AM in this mix as it was live as a separate enity only from 10am to 6 or 7pm. As such, they actually bragged about posting a profit.

What is working these days is airing oldies shows at night. WABC started the movement with Saturday Night Oldies starting roughly when WCBS-FM went Jack as a terrible experiment. Now, KMOX and WBT are picking up on the idea. It works well for stations with a long history of playing music. Although WDEL did play music, they are not the kind of station that by itself would bring back memories.

Speciality shows of oldies appear to be a great, money making idea at this time. A full-time format. No. This is, afterall, AM we are talking about.

 

[BlueHen]

Any thoughts?

Personally, I think one of the Soft AC/Standards satellite formats such as what was on the old AM 1290 would be a better choice for daytime during the workweek. The music selection is more conducive to office listening... pop/rock oldies could be a bit obtrusive.

Nights or specialty programming for a few hours on the weekend could, of course, be devoted to oldies or even classic country, and might also be a nice way to break up the monotony. Stick in a local program, too, similar to Jim Stoddard's old AM 1290 Saturday morning show... a mix of standards, show tunes, and old-time radio comedies, which is certainly something you wouldn't hear anywhere else.

I just don't think I'd really find myself listening to all oldies all the time, but certainly would for a few hours if I liked the station the rest of the week.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I don't know, the old 1290 was nice and I wouldn't mind it either, but skewed even older than Oldies would making it an even harder sell. However, the format that 1260 WAMS tried with their poor signal and even worse advertising (none) had a great variety and plenty of oh wow songs. It would be far more listenable than WOGL's "oldies" format. The other thing WDEL could try would be going back to their past and becoming an "Oldies MOR" station. They used to be a great MOR station years ago. That would be a mixture of the old 1290 format without some of the really dated Dianha Washington songs, etc, and a mellower version of the 1380 WAMS oldies format minus some of the harder or louder stuff. Might work.

 

[OldNumber7]

I don't know, the old 1290 was nice and I wouldn't mind it either, but skewed even older than Oldies would making it an even harder sell. However, the format that 1260 WAMS tried with their poor signal and even worse advertising (none) had a great variety and plenty of oh wow songs. It would be far more listenable than WOGL's "oldies" format. The other thing WDEL could try would be going back to their past and becoming an "Oldies MOR" station. They used to be a great MOR station years ago. That would be a mixture of the old 1290 format without some of the really dated Dianha Washington songs, etc, and a mellower version of the 1380 WAMS oldies format minus some of the harder or louder stuff. Might work.

Oldies of any stripe is no longer a viable format for a competitive radio station, anywhere. The demographics are already abysmal and getting worse. WDEL wisely gave up its heritage as a full service MOR in 1992 precisely because of those numbers. Now you're saying they should undo that decision 16 years later, to reclaim an audience that was already getting too old back then? WDEL is doing the format that it should be doing. I haven't been in the market to listen in quite a while, so I don't preclude the possibility that they might need to do some re-tooling, but it makes no sense for them to toss the only format option that fits for them.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Old Number 7, if that is true then maybe WDEL should pick up some of the other national talkers like Glenn Beck, Laura Ingrham, Dennis Prager, Michael Medved, etc. rather than trying to beat Rush/Hannity with local yokels. (WDEL sometimes airs Laura Ingraham at night on delay). Al Messitti is WDEL's best local talker (Loudell would be better, but he's tied up doing news and interviews), but some day's Al's show is boring. The Rick and Brian show doesn't have the chemistry. Rick comes across like he's trying to be slick or cool (sort of like seeing a 40something woman wearing her 16 year old daughter's clothes and doesn't have the figure to pull it off). Brian is bland. So if music truly is a deadend for WDEL then maybe the second tier of satellite talkers would be a better fit.

 

[WTUX]

Old Number 7 is on the mark, as usual. WDEL pulled a WABC. Ditch the format while the station still has life. Most in the industry argued that WABC switched to talk long before they had to. Exactly. That's how they took a great station and made it greater.

WDEL saw in 1992 that the AM MOR full service format would be totally dead soon (or at least all of their listeners would be!). So the switch was made in time to save 1150. You cannot bring a dead AM radio station back to life.

WJBR-AM, although a hit with listeners, was a revenue failure. Basically one sponsor, Gambicorta (sp?) Buick. The Blue Rocks kept the station afloat. Whiile MOR Oldies sounds like a nice idea, it again attracts a dying generation.

Local talk sounds like a good idea until you try it. If you in a city like Baltimore, with 3 or more AM talkers, someone has to be live/local. But a city that size can pay for quality hosts. Going against the nation's number one and number two talk hosts with a minor league line-up is never going to work. They need to get clearance for the next tier of national shows and realize they are now going to be the number two N/T station behind WILM. Sad, but true.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Bottomline is: the large corporate owned radio station (CC - WILM), with a less powerful 1K siganl out manuvered the regionally owned small corporate radio station (Delmarva - WDEL) that has a 5K signal. Making the former major AM station for Delaware become the 2nd tier station. Interestingly the 12+ numbers in Baltimore show the live and local working for WBAL vs the Rush/Hannity lineup on WCBM so it is possible to beat the top tiered satellite boys with live and local.

I've not listened to WBAL (can't get either BAL or CBM at work and our computers won't allow online listening). What are WBAL's local talkers doing differently from WDEL's? Maybe WDEL should learn from a live and local that's working? Of course, as WTUX said, that might require more cash than WDEL is prepared to pony up (given the fact they've already ponied up quite a bit when converting to live and local). However, maybe Al, Rick, and Brian are quick studies (and recognize that their futures in radio is in danger) so they could adapt their shows (topics, etc) after hearing what the Baltimore guys are doing, of course they'd have to not allow their ego's to get in the way, and making the adjustments in their format Wilmington appropriate. In other words, listen to what is working and learn from them.

 

[OldNumber7]

I've not listened to WBAL (can't get either BAL or CBM at work and our computers won't allow online listening). What are WBAL's local talkers doing differently from WDEL's? Maybe WDEL should learn from a live and local that's working?

I don't know exactly what WDEL's hosts are doing, so I can't say what WBAL is doing differently. However, I can say WBAL has survived the loss of Rush with engaging and long-lasting local hosts between 5am and 6 pm. Dave Durian in AM drive and Ron Smith in PM drive have anchored the station for years (although Durian's show is more of a morning magazine than a talk show). Middays are a bigger question; since Chip Franklin left, the station has been experimenting with a less political, more light topical mid-morning show that (to me at least) hasn't seemed as engaging. Things they've been doing right: 1) Tapping into the general discontent in the blue collar conservative Baltimore suburbs with the liberal orthodoxy of the state goverment and The Baltimore Sun. 2) Using political observers/bloggers/ex-politicians (mostly on the right) as frequent guests and co-hosts. 3) Populist railing against taxes, political correctness and institutional authority (the utilities, etc.).

Of course there is a lot more going on in Maryland than Delaware, so there is more to talk about. But WBAL does a lot of talk about national issues, too. It seems the talk show producers do a very good job lining up interesting guests, and Ron Smith is an extremely informed and intelligent host.

 

[WTUX]

Live and local in Wilmington takes a hit because there is not really that much going on. Outside of a murder a week, there is not much happening in Wilmington. State-wide, there's little action. The Republicans cannot even find a marketable candidate for governor. Our current governor has vanished. A large number of races go uncontested. We have evolved even more into just a suburb of Philadelphia. Without the national hosts talking about national issues, there is little left for an agenda.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

A good example of a interesting local host who does discuss national topics and even gets national guests on his show is WILM's Ted Effaw. He's filling in for John Watson this Monday 2/18and Tuesday 2/19 (9am-11:30). I believe that if Ted had a regular slot on WILM his show would do well. Ted is a liberal Democrat and makes no bones about it. He expresses his ideas well, even if you don't agree with him. He's the best local talker at this time, in my opinion, but he generally does not discuss local issues. He has great national contacts (from previous years of hosting talk shows in other markets). It's a shame that WILM didn't find a time slot for him and WDEL didn't have enough sense to hire Ted during that time he was laid off from WILM. Ted does news and then fills in for Watson when he's on vacation. A waste of a good talent.

 

[BlueHen]

How do you think a full-service MOR would do today on FM, say, on WJBR, which seems to be getting more and more indistinguishable from everything else on FM?

 

[MikefromDelaware]

BlueHen I'd be inclined to tune in to WJBR if they did a full service MOR format, which I don't do now, because the music is boring and bland and yes sounds like most of the other AC stations. Of course, they are the top station in the market so my guess is they won't be interested in trying a format that would skew older and probably lose them a major market share and probably the desired demo they and their advertisers want. If it ain't broke don't fix it in this case.

 

[WTUX]

WJBR, with the new owner, is being true to the AC "Top 40 for adults" format. Nothing on there that warrants my listening.

I can't see a personality driven full service MOR format working these days on FM. Particularly since we are no longer equipping young radio people with the tools they would need to do personality radio unless its the "shock" type show. WMMR's Pierre is the last of a vanishing breed. And he could take his talent to many formats and fit in.

 

[bl40modulimiter2]

T'was written: WJBR-AM, although a hit with listeners, was a revenue failure. Basically one sponsor, Gambicorta (sp?) Buick. The Blue Rocks kept the station afloat. Whiile MOR Oldies sounds like a nice idea, it again attracts a dying generation.

***But that generation is dying, NOT DEAD, and they spend money! I've seen this too often, standards pulls numbers but fails to generate revenue. Years ago WOYK in York had a 5.0 share and killed it for oldies, which pulled a 1.0. Idiots. That's a SALES problem, not a format problem. Whoever is running the station as GM has to be a cheerleader for the format and sell the reps on it before they can sell it. Sold salespeople sell. I'm developing an oldies/standards hybrid format now. Stay tuned!