Westwood One adds new 24/7 Good Time Oldies format to replace Scott Shannon's TOC

[Avid Listener]

I'm getting in at the end of this conversation, so maybe my post will be irrelavant. If you are age 55+ and you want to hear songs on the radio today that you heard "back in the day", radio couldn't care less. If a song made the Top 10 in 1967, it just doesn't matter. Advertisers (and therefore commercial radio) don't need you as a listener. Through "testing" (???) radio has decided which songs were kept alive over the years. Since these are the only "oldies" or "classic" songs that younger listeners have ever heard, these are the only songs radio will play over and over.

Through the course of my day, I encounter lots and lots of people. One thing I've observed is that many people in their teens, 20s, 30s, and even 40s actually prefer the sound of the music that was popular before they were born. The styles and genres of music that are played on formats dedicated to older music genres have far more appeal to many younger people than much of the music being recorded and released today. It's not like back in the 1960's, when forty year old recordings were scratchy old 78's. When I see teenagers wearing Jimi Hendrix t-shirts because Axis: Bold as Love is one of their favorite CDs, and then I read some suit claim that teenagers only like modern music specifically recorded to appeal to them, there is a serious disconnect. When parents are buying their kids turntables to listen to the parents' old vinyl collections because the kids like the old music better, that's an indicator of a trend.

Awhile back, there was a revival of swing music, though you'd never know it from the radio. Acts like the Cherry Poppin Daddies and Squirrel Nut Zippers had a surge of "underground" popularity.

The thing is, it seems like no radio station is really attempting to cash in on the increasing demand by younger listeners for music with the classic sound. That's an untapped market that is being ignored. Stations that make a feeble attempt at addressing that market do it half-heartedly, and seldom with adequate promotion. They fail due to that inadequate promotion, but the suits and naysayers attribute the failure to the program content.

 

[John Gallagher]

Through the course of my day, I encounter lots and lots of people. One thing I've observed is that many people in their teens, 20s, 30s, and even 40s actually prefer the sound of the music that was popular before they were born. The styles and genres of music that are played on formats dedicated to older music genres have far more appeal to many younger people than much of the music being recorded and released today.

As someone who moved from a 23 year radio career to full-time wedding & event entertainer, I can relate to that statement. I work with wedding clients in their 20's every weekend who occasionally surprise me with requests like "Right Place Wrong Time" or "Shambala. I had a bride and groom in their early 20's once tell me they listen all the time to 60's on 6 and created a dinner music list of all 1960s songs. Very often my most requested dinner music at events is Michael Buble, Frank Sinatra etc. Guess what, for the open dancing portion of their events, my clients always pick songs they love to hear and love to dance to. The same holds true for radio...people want to hear songs they like that make them feel good.

I notice that Scott Shannon all the time plays "Beautiful Sunday" from Daniel Boone. Certainly, that is a LOST hit. I like that song. Does it test well? No.
He also plays, occasionally, "Good Time Charlie's Got The Blues." I hate that song. If I heard that song on the radio, I would switch stations.

 

[Tibbs4]

Hey Fire - you are certainly, uh, fired up this morning! Just a little tibbit, "Turn Down Day" did indeed go to #16 on the Billboard charts in 1966. I honestly think it was on the playlist at Hippie before the Friday free for all when you requested it. The idea was indeed to give back and/or thank listeners for putting up with issues with on going arcing/electrical problems. I came up with the idea for two reasons. First, as a real thank you back and second as a way to measure listenership and get the true taste that the music playlist could be expandable, but to what point?! It was a great response from many great and loyal listeners. I have never been a huge fan of the "corporate" mindset, but have certainly worked in it and seen it at it's best and (yucky) worst. I totally understand it and get why it is what it is. Hippie cannot think like a corporate radio station. That doesn't mean that it couldn't. But, truth is it is a move-in from many miles west of Nashville. It covers the city better than anyone expected, but still can only go so far as it has to protect 94.7 to the east. Nashville is a very large, spread out city with lots of hills and the downtown is in a basin, so even the HPY signal literally throws itself OVER the downtown, but, for 12kw, it is doing a remarkable job from GREAT engineering. (Plug for Jack D.) So gents, with all this being said, smart common sense said you cannot compete with 100kw well-established formats that could be throw aways in a cluster or cost $$$$$ to fight. Hippie is indeed intended to be a format that doesn't truly compete, but rather co-exists and fits a demo that few, if any, corporate radio stations really even desire. It's not easy, it's not perfect, but it is one heck of a fun ride to watch and see grow. SURE, there are limitations. Being a stand alone isn't easy. But, if David or BigA or anyone else where to try to take on a project like this, they would easily see the niche and totally understand that in this case corporate radio's overall business plan would not work. So far, so good. Response is great on all sides. Not easy. But, the future is pretty bright, like a Red Rubber Ball. Like the old ID said "an innovator in an age of imitators." This little horse has to ride on a different track. And indeed, that all a result of corporate radio! BTW, "Turn Down Day" is still a favorite to hear and/or play, Fire! Carry on, gents.

 

[TheBigA]

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe just maybe, listeners don't really give a damn about all this corporate b.s.?

I'm sure they don't. Read the context of my post. It's not about corporate anything. I have no idea what you're talking about.

But why do you keep railing AGAINST stations that are apparently successful?

The point is: It ISN'T successful. Just because it's on the air doesn't mean it's a success. I've heard they're in big money trouble.

Since corporate does not even HAVE a "classic hits" format any longer (at least, not here in what was supposedly "music city"), you really don't have a dog in this hunt, anyway. You gave up on us YEARS ago.

Huh? Who are you talking to? Which "corporate" doesn't have classic hits? Mine still does. Heck, most of the classic hits stations are owned by big radio companies.

 

[firepoint525]

I'm sure they don't. Read the context of my post. It's not about corporate anything. I have no idea what you're talking about.
The point is: It ISN'T successful. Just because it's on the air doesn't mean it's a success. I've heard they're in big money trouble.
Huh? Who are you talking to? Which "corporate" doesn't have classic hits? Mine still does. Heck, most of the classic hits stations are owned by big radio companies.

Okay, here's the rub. South Central Communications, owner of then-Oldies 96.3 here in Nashville (circa 1990-2005) flipped it to Jack-FM in May of 2005. Cumulus then flipped Star 97 to Oldies 97.1 the next day. Even hired away some former Oldies 96.3 jocks. But then, they only kept the format for a little over a year before changing it again, Labor Day weekend 2006. Oh, and they enforced their djs' non-competes after firing them! (South Central had not done that.) They replaced Coyote McCloud (RIP) with Bob & Tom just a few months later, and B&T remained with them until Cumulus sold it to K-Love. (THERE'S your religious organization taking over!)

So since summer 2012, we have NOT had a full-time MAINSTREAM (corporate-owned) classic hits station in Nashville. All we have is Hippie Radio. Not complaining there, Tibbs summed it up quite nicely. So yes indeed, classic hits radio has absolutely VACATED the market here in "music city."

Cumulus seems to currently be proudest of their new NASH brand. Billboards all over town. So even though I do not like country music (by and large), I checked it out. Their format must be NBC, which stands for "nothing but commercials," because commercials were all I heard. About the best that I can say here is that one of those spots was for Zaxby's, and I look forward to them opening out here in Bellevue real soon!

 

[ok walters]

When you actually DEVELOP some debating skills, then we will discuss them. Saying "me, too" to everything that David says is NOT "debating." It is just "me-too-ism." Big fat hairy deal. So you can cut and paste his stats. But you can't even get them right. Because your stats change every day, and then change back the next. All you have got are juvenile retorts. That is NOT "debating."

I have worked in radio for 14 years, and it has been my experience that radio station GMs and owners have the following traits in common:

1) They absolutely WORSHIP money. It is their god. (little g) This one is absolutely NON-debatable.

2) They are narcissists.

3) They are egomaniacs.

4) They are perfectionists.

5) They won't listen to ANYONE who tries to tell them that they are wrong about anything, because they have a "my way or the highway" attitude. Even a congressman would come nearer to giving you a direct answer to a question than any egomaniacal narcissistic radio exec EVER would. (We have seen this in the way that "they" try to talk down to us on this board, and tell us that "we don't know anything" and try to "school" us.)

6) They are workaholics, and they work their lives away, and they expect their staff to do and be the same, only WITHOUT the big fat paycheck.

7) They value CHEAP talent over good talent. (Of course, they would rather have good talent cheap, but if they can only have one or the other, they will take the cheap talent over the good talent.) This is why I no longer work in radio. I have bills to pay. When I lived "at home" (read: with my parents), I could work for these cheapskates, but once I had rents, utilities, and later a mortgage, to pay, I had to go into other lines of work. These guys love to compare radio to McDonald's. There is no comparison. McDonald's pays their workers far MORE per hour than any salaried radio employee. (I have first-hand experience with this.) Only the part-timers' pay (because they are hourly) is comparable to McDonald's pay. (I remember a news director telling me that by the time she attended all the meetings (school board, city council, etc.) that she was required to attend, her pay came to about $2.00 an hour. This was in the early '90s.)

Now I am sure that all the usual narcissistic, egomaniacal, money-worshipping know-it-alls will come back to this board, and slice and dice this message (or worse, cherry-pick their favorite parts of it) and tell me how "wrong" I am, but if they do, go into their profiles and read their past messages. They may try to lie to you, but their profiles will tell you the honest-to-God truth about what they REALLY think, and how they REALLY are! You think these guys (and "guys" is gender-neutral, because one of my past narcissists was a woman), are ogres to "debate" with, try WORKING for them. You will find out what hell is REALLY like!

You mean pick apart the post - "slice and dice" as you call it - just like you just did? Wow.

There are no "new" arguments to post so yes, those of us who ever worried about ratings, payrolls, employees - you know, management stuff - are all going to think the same way. This is exactly like you, Oldies, and Avid, except without the actual cheerleading ("Good one, Avid" and "You are on fire this morning Firepoint"). You and your "we are abandoning corporate radio" cronies should do just that - quit talking about it and just go away. We will keep our millions of "brain dead masses" as you have labeled them and keep our station growing.

One of the funniest things is that you stereotype all owners/GMs/PDs as having no clue, being narcissistic, egomaniacs, all because they won't listen to you and your tried and proven to fail ideas. Even funnier is that you claim to have been in the business 14 years but still don't have the basic understanding that radio is a for profit business, even capitalizing and bold typing your claim that they "worship" money. Any business where money isn't one of the top concerns isn't a business - it is a hobby disguised as a business.

You also say you have worked in radio for 14 years, then claim that you no longer work in radio in the same post. You cite people who were paid poorly and compared working in radio to "hell". If you hate this business so much and no longer work in it, why are you on here trolling around still complaining about happened when you were in the business, whenever and wherever that was? All you have left is name calling - well it is really all you ever had, but that is pretty obvious at this point.

Well, gotta go - one of the local businesses is calling wanting me to help reach those "brain dead masses" for him.

 

[ok walters]

It is actually YOU who does not understand! Who ever said that we wanted to hear our favorites played over some big huge commercial corporate signal? One of the best stations in my area for playing the classic tunes right now is a non-comm. They periodically run ads over their station looking for volunteer announcers to come in and cover some shifts. I would do it, except that I am busy, and I live an hour away from that station, and I can only pick them up when I am on that side of town. Even so, I still have a preset on the car radio for them, because corporate radio has become so bad lately that there are not even enough stations with formats that I would listen to, to fill up all the available presets that I have.

We think OUTSIDE the box. If corporate commercial radio can no longer play our faves, then we just give them the "middle-finger salute," and find stations that CAN please us!

Awesome post - helps make my points. No full market signal can justify putting your classic tunes format on as it is not the best fit. It is on a rim shot non-comm, and you call it "one of the best stations in the area". Know why it is on that station? Because they are thinking "outside of the box" as they have to with a rim shot signal and corporate radio dominating (translation: making money) in the tried and proven formats.

So you don't want your format on a big corporate signal? You like it better when you can only hear it some of the time? Wow.

We understand - you apparently do not. You keep making our point for us by citing college stations that are gone and rim shots and non-comms as your best examples of big playlist success. Oh, and the name calling is a nice touch as well.

 

[firepoint525]

You mean pick apart the post - "slice and dice" as you call it - just like you just did? Wow.
There are no "new" arguments to post so yes, those of us who ever worried about ratings, payrolls, employees - you know, management stuff - are all going to think the same way. This is exactly like you, Oldies, and Avid, except without the actual cheerleading ("Good one, Avid" and "You are on fire this morning Firepoint"). You and your "we are abandoning corporate radio" cronies should do just that - quit talking about it and just go away. We will keep our millions of "brain dead masses" as you have labeled them and keep our station growing.
One of the funniest things is that you stereotype all owners/GMs/PDs as having no clue, being narcissistic, egomaniacs, all because they won't listen to you and your tried and proven to fail ideas. Even funnier is that you claim to have been in the business 14 years but still don't have the basic understanding that radio is a for profit business, even capitalizing and bold typing your claim that they "worship" money. Any business where money isn't one of the top concerns isn't a business - it is a hobby disguised as a business.
You also say you have worked in radio for 14 years, then claim that you no longer work in radio in the same post. You cite people who were paid poorly and compared working in radio to "hell". If you hate this business so much and no longer work in it, why are you on here trolling around still complaining about happened when you were in the business, whenever and wherever that was? All you have left is name calling - well it is really all you ever had, but that is pretty obvious at this point.
Well, gotta go - one of the local businesses is calling wanting me to help reach those "brain dead masses" for him.

Well, this is just rich, and I don't mean in money, either.

By the way, I already HAVE left "corporate radio." They abandoned me, and I in turn abandoned them. But (and follow me verrrrrrrrrryyyyyy closely here) this is NOT a strictly "corporate" message board! This is the "classic hits forum," and we are all WELL within our rights to discuss exactly that (MUSIC) here! What a novel idea. Discussing MUSIC on a MUSIC forum! If you want to discuss business, then yeah, they have a forum for that, too, here. You are very welcome to go there and check it out. Trying to run me off from this board because I am not on the "corporate plantation," and then calling me a "troll" for pointing out things that you either cannot, or will not, discuss, is probably in violation of the TOS of this board. Fortunately, while you may be in management of your sorry excuse for a station, you are NOT in management of this board, thus you cannot "fire" me from it, although I am sure that you would love to, since I have rocked the boat, and pointed out truths that you obviously do not wish to discuss. Sorry, but I am NOT going away.

By the way, nearly all of the GMs that I worked for are no longer in radio. One chain-smoked himself to death, another was fired by the owners (so he was in no better shape than the rest of us!), one skipped town after being hit with a sexual harassment charge, and the female GM sold her station to Hispanic interests, probably the only smart thing that she ever did. Also, I never worked in classic hits/oldies radio, save for voice-tracking one station, so my gripes with management were definitely NOT over format issues, so nice try there. They were indeed narcissists and egomaniacs (the accused sexual harasser even put up billboards touting HIMSELF!), so I am not "name-calling." I am simply telling it like it is. I am telling the truth. I believe it was Thomas Paine who said that truth is a defense. But I am not a "troll." Trolls send message boards off-topic. I have not done that. So again, nice try.

 

[ok walters]

OK, here's a challenge. Can anyone who provides those automatic knee-jerk reactions to appeals to the suits who run radio to loosen up the playlists on classic hits stations just a little bit provide the names or call letters of any station that was a top-rated, major success that went into the toilet ratings wise just because they added one or two slightly obscure songs per day? I'm not talking about turning into an "all obscure deep cuts all the time" format. I'm just talking about mixing in two songs that only made in the bottom half of the Top 40 even though other songs by the same acts made it to the top 5 and are staple songs on the tight playlists.

This isn't about stations that engaged in multiple changes, including changing DJs and imaging, at the same time as adding two "semi-hits" a day. If that's the case, it could be the changing of the DJs or imaging. And, to prove that it was adding the two whole songs per day that caused the ratings to plummet, this cannot have happened at a time when another station in the market didn't do a sudden format change that siphoned away the first station's listeners. I'm only talking about a station whose ratings collapsed only because they added two semi-hits per day.

Two songs a day? Why bother? That won't make a difference either way - in pacifying you or changing the ratings.

Would one of the two songs you want be Brand New Key?

 

[Avid Listener]

Okay, here's the rub. South Central Communications, owner of then-Oldies 96.3 here in Nashville (circa 1990-2005) flipped it to Jack-FM in May of 2005. Cumulus then flipped Star 97 to Oldies 97.1 the next day. Even hired away some former Oldies 96.3 jocks. But then, they only kept the format for a little over a year before changing it again, Labor Day weekend 2006. Oh, and they enforced their djs' non-competes after firing them! (South Central had not done that.) They replaced Coyote McCloud (RIP) with Bob & Tom just a few months later, and B&T remained with them until Cumulus sold it to K-Love. (THERE'S your religious organization taking over!)

That's one of the major missing pieces of all of the pronouncement from the gods of radio. They ignore the fact that no station exists in a vacuum. I am not surprised to find out that a station that makes a major format switch from tight-playlist boredom to broader playlist excitement might not do very well, not when I also learn that a competitor station also made a similar format change, and doubled their marketing and promotion budget at the same time!

How often does a station change formats with the full knowledge that they'll have a transition period when they'll lose previous listeners but before they replace them with more new listeners? How often does a "pre-emptive strike" by a competitor thwart their plans? I remember when one of my favorite classic rock stations switched to a variety hits format. The other classic rock station in town started airing "welcome" spots to all the former listeners of the changed station. I recall seeing ads saying that the other classic rock station, "Still has the classics", while the station that changed formats just pushed the single-syllable man's name that identified the format. Most people I knew who expressed an opinion on the subject responded with, "Who cares who this 'Bob' fellow is?"

Come to think of it, how could anyone who had any experience in advertising think that the slogan "Bob plays what he likes" would make people want to sample a new radio station? The music format itself might well have pleased the ears of those who would sample it, but why would anyone sample something for such a lame reason?

There are simply way too many reasons for a radio station to lose in the ratings to say that the tightness or looseness of the playlist is the only reason. Granted, when the only tool someone has is a hammer, every problem ends up looking like a nail. That's why I don't accept as holy writ the opinions of any "experts" who never even acknowledge that there are many, many factors behind the success or failure of a radio station.

 

[firepoint525]

Awesome post - helps make my points. No full market signal can justify putting your classic tunes format on as it is not the best fit. It is on a rim shot non-comm, and you call it "one of the best stations in the area". Know why it is on that station? Because they are thinking "outside of the box" as they have to with a rim shot signal and corporate radio dominating (translation: making money) in the tried and proven formats.
So you don't want your format on a big corporate signal? You like it better when you can only hear it some of the time? Wow.
We understand - you apparently do not. You keep making our point for us by citing college stations that are gone and rim shots and non-comms as your best examples of big playlist success. Oh, and the name calling is a nice touch as well.

Okay, this is the equivalent of me shopping at my local mom and pop store, and you, as Wal-Mart, claiming that you have what I want, have it better, cheaper, whatever. So I go check out your Wal-Mart version, and find out that you actually do NOT carry what I want, and then accuse me of not being "mainstream" enough to want whatever it is that you claim to have, and then try to sell me on your substitute. Sorry, but I ain't buying. If you don't carry what I want, I shop elsewhere. You want to talk "business"? There's your business lesson for the day. And denigrating the mom and pops where I DO shop is little more than corporate bullying. Wal-Mart would LOVE to drive all the little mom and pops out of business. But they CAN'T kill them all!

Oh, and name-calling? Pot to kettle, you are black. How many times have you called me a "troll" just today?

 

[Avid Listener]

Two songs a day? Why bother? That won't make a difference either way - in pacifying you or changing the ratings.

Look up the joke about the golfers and the "gotcha".

Would one of the two songs you want be Brand New Key?

No.

 

[firepoint525]

Come to think of it, how could anyone who had any experience in advertising think that the slogan "Bob plays what he likes" would make people want to sample a new radio station? The music format itself might well have pleased the ears of those who would sample it, but why would anyone sample something for such a lame reason?

I actually like the Jack-FM business model, but not for the reasons that you might think. That oldies station that I voice-tracked over 20 years ago was basically the business model for a Jack-FM. We couldn't take requests; we "played what we wanted" (at least what MANAGEMENT wanted), so I never solicited requests. We couldn't play them, anyway, even if we wanted to. (I always felt bad about it when someone called long distance from out of town, even out of state, and all they succeeded in doing was running up their own phone bill.)

The Jack-FM stations are about the only ones out there that are intellectually honest with their listeners. Like I said, we were "playing what we wanted" and "not taking requests" 20+ years ago. The Jack-FM concept is just now catching up to that.

 

[ok walters]

Well, this is just rich, and I don't mean in money, either.

By the way, I already HAVE left "corporate radio." They abandoned me, and I in turn abandoned them. But (and follow me verrrrrrrrrryyyyyy closely here) this is NOT a strictly "corporate" message board! This is the "classic hits forum," and we are all WELL within our rights to discuss exactly that (MUSIC) here! What a novel idea. Discussing MUSIC on a MUSIC forum! If you want to discuss business, then yeah, they have a forum for that, too, here. You are very welcome to go there and check it out. Trying to run me off from this board because I am not on the "corporate plantation," and then calling me a "troll" for pointing out things that you either cannot, or will not, discuss, is probably in violation of the TOS of this board. Fortunately, while you may be in management of your sorry excuse for a station, you are NOT in management of this board, thus you cannot "fire" me from it, although I am sure that you would love to, since I have rocked the boat, and pointed out truths that you obviously do not wish to discuss. Sorry, but I am NOT going away.

By the way, nearly all of the GMs that I worked for are no longer in radio. One chain-smoked himself to death, another was fired by the owners (so he was in no better shape than the rest of us!), one skipped town after being hit with a sexual harassment charge, and the female GM sold her station to Hispanic interests, probably the only smart thing that she ever did. Also, I never worked in classic hits/oldies radio, save for voice-tracking one station, so my gripes with management were definitely NOT over format issues, so nice try there. They were indeed narcissists and egomaniacs (the accused sexual harasser even put up billboards touting HIMSELF!), so I am not "name-calling." I am simply telling it like it is. I am telling the truth. I believe it was Thomas Paine who said that truth is a defense. But I am not a "troll." Trolls send message boards off-topic. I have not done that. So again, nice try.

So lets recap - you have already left corporate radio, and never worked in management, and never worked in classic hits, yet you know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it. You have repeatedly called me a "cheerleader" - no name calling there at all.

No one is trying to run you off - your posts are pretty funny I have to admit. Go ahead and report this to whoever you want - your posts speak for themselves and your increasingly hostile attitude would be hard to ignore. There is nothing to "discuss" with you as it is not a discussion - it is you going from citing failed radio stations to dysfunctional managers you worked for who knows how long ago, as if any of that matters in a discussion about long playlists and that they don't work.

You say you have abandoned corporate radio, and then come on here and try to bash it. You have pointed out exactly zero "truths" as you call them as everything you have said has been debunked by the "corporate suits" as we have been called.

You aren't a troll? What does your experience with radio management years ago have to do with music? What does the mention of a classic hits non-comm being your favorite station have to do with music? You did point out that we are on a music forum right? Why would you bring up past managers who were not in a classic hits format if you are not trying to derail a discussion on music?

You are not "telling it like it is". You are "telling it like you see it or wish it was". Unfortunately it isn't either one.

 

[firepoint525]

So lets recap - you have already left corporate radio, and never worked in management, and never worked in classic hits, yet you know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it. You have repeatedly called me a "cheerleader" - no name calling there at all.
No one is trying to run you off - your posts are pretty funny I have to admit. Go ahead and report this to whoever you want - your posts speak for themselves and your increasingly hostile attitude would be hard to ignore. There is nothing to "discuss" with you as it is not a discussion - it is you going from citing failed radio stations to dysfunctional managers you worked for who knows how long ago, as if any of that matters in a discussion about long playlists and that they don't work.
You say you have abandoned corporate radio, and then come on here and try to bash it. You have pointed out exactly zero "truths" as you call them as everything you have said has been debunked by the "corporate suits" as we have been called.
You aren't a troll? What does your experience with radio management years ago have to do with music? What does the mention of a classic hits non-comm being your favorite station have to do with music? You did point out that we are on a music forum right? Why would you bring up past managers who were not in a classic hits format if you are not trying to derail a discussion on music?
You are not "telling it like it is". You are "telling it like you see it or wish it was". Unfortunately it isn't either one.

Okay, fine. You may criticize me when you walk a mile in MY shoes. That street runs both ways.

If you want to compare radio to McDonald's, then you have got to make ALL the comparisons. If you work at McDonald's for a year, you might be able to go into management. Might even get insurance and benefits. You won't get that in radio, unless there is a LOT of attrition.

I never claimed to be in management myself. The closest that I ever came was being a production director. And I listened to "my" station to make sure that my, and my co-workers' spots that I assigned to them, sounded as good actually played over the air as when we produced them in the studio.

Your management claims come off as nothing but bragging. I really don't give a damn what you do at your station. Do you treat your employees well? Do you give them periodic raises? Do you treat them with respect? Or do you do what GMs that I worked for have done, and tried to run them off, so that you can replace them with 19-year-olds, and pay them less? If your employees only stay with your station just long enough to get some experience and then they are gone, then you, too, are basically only running a "college" station. The only difference is that you use money to control them. I and many of my coworkers were either students or recent grads.

 

[ok walters]

Okay, this is the equivalent of me shopping at my local mom and pop store, and you, as Wal-Mart, claiming that you have what I want, have it better, cheaper, whatever. So I go check out your Wal-Mart version, and find out that you actually do NOT carry what I want, and then accuse me of not being "mainstream" enough to want whatever it is that you claim to have, and then try to sell me on your substitute. Sorry, but I ain't buying. If you don't carry what I want, I shop elsewhere. You want to talk "business"? There's your business lesson for the day. And denigrating the mom and pops where I DO shop is little more than corporate bullying. Wal-Mart would LOVE to drive all the little mom and pops out of business. But they CAN'T kill them all!

Oh, and name-calling? Pot to kettle, you are black. How many times have you called me a "troll" just today?

Thanks for helping my argument again. Nobody ever said there wasn't a home for the "mom and pop" store, or radio station in this case. But the most successful big signal corporate stations (Walmart or McDonalds) are the most successful because they appeal to the masses, and to do that successfully they need to be very mainstream, which you don't like but you are in the minority. The "mom and pop" radio station/store cannot compete with that, so they must fill a much smaller niche and hope to succeed with a much smaller customer base/audience - people like you. So will the mom and pop ever make a profit and survive? Probably, but only to a much smaller degree than the big guy. Given that info, who is most likely to be marginally profitable and end up changing their business model/format to survive? The store/station with the smallest customer base/audience - mom and pop or your college/non comm/rim shot station. Who will make the most money with the highest probability of survival? Walmart/McDonalds. While you don't like it, "I am simply telling it like it is" as you say. Nobody is "denigrating" anything - we have repeatedly pointed out why they are forced to do what they do - just like you Walmart analogy does.

I have called you a troll once - and then cited evidence that you are. Your name calling started when this discussion began.

 

[ok walters]

Okay, fine. You may criticize me when you walk a mile in MY shoes. That street runs both ways.

If you want to compare radio to McDonald's, then you have got to make ALL the comparisons. If you work at McDonald's for a year, you might be able to go into management. Might even get insurance and benefits. You won't get that in radio, unless there is a LOT of attrition.

I never claimed to be in management myself. The closest that I ever came was being a production director. And I listened to "my" station to make sure that my, and my co-workers' spots that I assigned to them, sounded as good actually played over the air as when we produced them in the studio.

Your management claims come off as nothing but bragging. I really don't give a damn what you do at your station. Do you treat your employees well? Do you give them periodic raises? Do you treat them with respect? Or do you do what GMs that I worked for have done, and tried to run them off, so that you can replace them with 19-year-olds, and pay them less? If your employees only stay with your station just long enough to get some experience and then they are gone, then you, too, are basically only running a "college" station. The only difference is that you use money to control them. I and many of my coworkers were either students or recent grads.

No bragging - just pointing out that unless you have "walked a mile" in the managers shoes you haven't seen the whole picture. And you have admittedly not walked that mile. So with no management experience at any level, you are telling the managers how to do their jobs and are even calling us "corporate suits". I am sure you did a great job as you obviously have some passion for the business, but without management insight you are making blind statements.

 

[ok walters]

Look up the joke about the golfers and the "gotcha".



No.

So now it has become a joke? You wanted a debate and then play games? Nice.

 

[ok walters]

Let's see.....payphones have only been around since 1889, with a peak in 1995 or so. Only the "recent" mobile phone takeover has taken that away, otherwise they'd still be around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payphone

As for radio, huge library failures mainly apply to the bigger stations in cities, not small towns. Remember as recent as 1987, KRTH had an immense library and CBS-FM just a couple years ago, before the 60's were slashed. WOGL also has a large library, based on the fact they recently did a huge specialty on #1 songs, which were all played in alpha order (1960-1989), so Walters, they are out there. You just need to find them as well.

Even stations like WLNG, Superhits 106, Hippie radio in Tenn, AM 950 Denver, I-25 radio network and countless others, all have large libraries, without the frequent repetition heard in large cities.

So payphones are gone why? Not enough people were using them - just like not enough people listening to radio stations with big playlists. You are citing things that happened at stations 25 years ago and on smaller stations like they apply to today's corporate big signal radio when they don't. Of course WOGL has all of the number 1 hits back to 1960 - but do they have number 15 from 1960? Nope.

 

[firepoint525]

Thanks for helping my argument again. Nobody ever said there wasn't a home for the "mom and pop" store, or radio station in this case. But the most successful big signal corporate stations (Walmart or McDonalds) are the most successful because they appeal to the masses, and to do that successfully they need to be very mainstream, which you don't like but you are in the minority. The "mom and pop" radio station/store cannot compete with that, so they must fill a much smaller niche and hope to succeed with a much smaller customer base/audience - people like you. So will the mom and pop ever make a profit and survive? Probably, but only to a much smaller degree than the big guy. Given that info, who is most likely to be marginally profitable and end up changing their business model/format to survive? The store/station with the smallest customer base/audience - mom and pop or your college/non comm/rim shot station. Who will make the most money with the highest probability of survival? Walmart/McDonalds. While you don't like it, "I am simply telling it like it is" as you say. Nobody is "denigrating" anything - we have repeatedly pointed out why they are forced to do what they do - just like you Walmart analogy does.
I have called you a troll once - and then cited evidence that you are. Your name calling started when this discussion began.

I called you a cheerleader, several times, and then cited evidence that you are.

I forgot one in my previous criticism of GMs:

They think that THEIR station is the absolute BEST one on the dial, and that everyone in town (even their entire listening area) must be absolute idiots not to just tune to THEIR station, and then rip off the knob.

"Corporate" stations do indeed want what little competition they still have left to disappear. You and others on here have denigrated Hippie Radio, while at the same time pointing out that you do not carry what I want. You have denigrated college stations and non-comms, all the while offering me absolutely NOTHING to compete with it. Your argument is "I have this big badass 100 KW signal that can be heard in seven states...blah blah blah..." but again offering me NOTHING of what I want. You make fun of the signals of smaller stations, but again, all you are doing is chest-thumping. You call my tastes "extreme" or whatever, but again your blowtorch signal does not play ANYTHING that I like, because you have VACATED that particular music format in what was supposedly "music city." If you carry country music on your blowtorch, you have nothing for me.

If I want the latest releases, I could probably find them at Wal-Mart. I can even find a few of my old faves discounted there. But yeah, if I want something specific, and you don't carry it, I and my $$$ (apparently the only argument that you money-grubbers understand) go elsewhere. Ernest Tubb's record shop is probably pretty cool and eclectic, but they are country. Again, insulting and denigrating my taste in music does NOT make me want to listen to your station.

Your attitude is just like the GMs that I have worked for, so you are probably about as "pleasant" to work for as they were.