Westwood One adds new 24/7 Good Time Oldies format to replace Scott Shannon's TOC

[ok walters]

The Weather Channel is competing with WX Nation (or vice versa) and the word is (correct me if I'm off here) that people want the simplicity of wx forecasting and analysis, like WX Nation. They do not want the reality shows offered by the Weather Channel. In other words, just forecast the weather, especially with severe wx season beginning in parts of the country now.

With the emergence of WX Nation, DirecTV yanked the Weather Channel last year and only recently brought it back under the promise by the Weather Channel that it cut its reality shows by 50% by 2015.

Viewers remember the Weather Channel from the 1990's....simple and to the point, w/o all the hoopla and feature shows.
WXNation is like that now, basic and to the point.

The Weather Channel was best when it was actually weather, and not what it has become. The upstart is doing well because they are what the Weather Channel used to be. Predictability was what they lost - it used to be if you turned on the Weather Channel you saw a weather report and now you don't know what you may see, but it likely won't be a weather report. Kind of like playing a bunch of lost hits......no predictability.

 

[oldies76]

Funny you call radio "stale", with "corporate type playlists", yet in another post say that the key to McDonalds success is a short menu. McDonalds and radio are most successful when the reach the broadest audience and the recipe for achieving that are very similar - predictability and simplicity are proven winners.

I'm just comparing the business models from the way it used to be:

Radio, in particular KRTH was simple back in the 1980's, playing lots of songs, nice specials, great listener variety. That ended when Mr. Hamilton left.

MTV was well known for music videos in the 80's....well that ended too, with the influx of alternate programming and shows.

Weather channel used to forecast the wx, now, as you said, it's unpredictable and too many shows

Radio shack....well, used to sell radios, tapes and other gadgets, now it's cell phones and other stuff and look what has happened to them. Maybe the Superbowl commercial was the precursor.

McD's......menu too complex according to David, sales are down...Go back to the way it was, a simple menu, like In & Out Burger.

People like originality and keeping things the way it was, might just be a good thing. Change is not always the best thing. In radio, originality is larger playlists and interaction with it's listeners. Only small towns do this anymore and even so, it's somewhat limited.

Heck, even vinyl records are coming back to an extent....Maybe record stores will return once again. We just never know anymore.

 

[Tibbs4]

The billing data is quite accurate and not gossip. The station's gross annual billings are in the same range as a top tier general manager makes in the same period.

Ok, my friend. You have the answers on this one, like someone else had answers on Puerto Rico. I will leave it at that. But, what is the dollar amount on the salary of a top tier general manager, in your opinion?

 

[davideduardo]

Ok, my friend. You have the answers on this one, like someone else had answers on Puerto Rico. I will leave it at that. But, what is the dollar amount on the salary of a top tier general manager, in your opinion?

In markets that size, $125 to about $225.

 

[BostonRandy]

I've been told that even playing these songs during the overnights or during weekends is not to the benefit of the station as well. This is where the disagreements begin. Never believed that playing just two lesser played songs per hour would cause much harm.

I hope that you didn't misinterpret my post re: "deep cuts". I would never play one more than every two hours, even on overnights. My clocks rotated every three days - meaning you wouldn't hear the same hour structure in a particular hour more than once in a three day cycle. The changes might be subtle, maybe just flipping two categories coming out of the :20 break. I loved my Selector.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm speaking "over" you. I know that there are non-programmers and enthusiasts who frequent the forums.

 

[John Gallagher]

Even though this continuing discussion only seems to be among three or four of you, let me ask a realistic question. If you are listening to a station and hear an unfamiliar song or a song you don't like...what are you most likely to do?

1) Tune out the station

2) Say, oh wow, haven't heard that in a long time

3) See #1

 

[BostonRandy]

Even though this continuing discussion only seems to be among three or four of you, let me ask a realistic question. If you are listening to a station and hear an unfamiliar song or a song you don't like...what are you most likely to do?

1) Tune out the station

2) Say, oh wow, haven't heard that in a long time

3) See #1

When I listen to classic hits/classic rock/oldies, there aren't many songs that would be an immediate "tune-out". With that being said, and this is just my personal preference based upon my experience, I'll listen to Peter Frampton's "Do You Feel Like We Do" at 11PM. However, if my fave station airs it at, let's say, 3:20PM, I'll probably do something else or flip to another signal.

In all candor, with tight playlists in the CH/CR/Oldies formats, there's not much out there that would make me say "oh, wow". Again, it's my personal listening dynamic.

 

[oldies76]

Even though this continuing discussion only seems to be among three or four of you, let me ask a realistic question. If you are listening to a station and hear an unfamiliar song or a song you don't like...what are you most likely to do?

1) Tune out the station

2) Say, oh wow, haven't heard that in a long time

3) See #1

#2, most songs played today (the positives and "lost" songs) were played in our youths, so we would remember them, some more than others. Playing a song today, that was NOT aired on CHR back in the day is one thing and could cause tuneout, but most of the music that hit on the top 10 positions were played then, some more than others, so those should not cause tuneout. Playing a song that charted #1, #7 or #18, is more appealing than songs that hit #37, #63 or even #91. So it baffles us as to why a song like "I Melt With You" which charted #78 in 1983 can be played, but yet "Jeopardy" at #2 cannot. There's something wrong here. And yes, I refer to the Whitburn books, because that is an accurate measurement of what was popular back then.

Granted today, not even 1/2 the number ones are even touched today, but yet, they were played on CHR in their days, and not just the 60's. We're talking 70's and early 80's music that was all over the airwaves then, but less than 15% of the top 20's are even heard today. That's the issue.

 

[oldies76]

I hope that you didn't misinterpret my post re: "deep cuts". I would never play one more than every two hours, even on overnights. My clocks rotated every three days - meaning you wouldn't hear the same hour structure in a particular hour more than once in a three day cycle.

There are stations that won't even do that, play one every two hours or during overnights. They are by-the-book types that will not budge on even one song, not one!! KRTH is one of them

 

[oldies76]

Sorry if this sounds like I'm speaking "over" you. I know that there are non-programmers and enthusiasts who frequent the forums.

Average listeners, music aficionados, people in the biz, radio people, former board ops, oldies "freaks" (as some of us were called once) and PD's frequent these forums.....It's just opinions.....and obviously, they all differ here.

 

[Avid Listener]

What a flippant response to a reasoned post with data that is fundamental to the marketing model of business from P&G on down to much smaller niche producers and marketers most of us have never even heard of.

That "fundamental" of the marketing model of business is one of the big reasons why business is such dire straits.

The fact that so many companies depend on the inaccurate results of marketing research could help explain why the American economy is going into the toilet. Over-reliance on market testing, which is probably even more pervasive than you indicate, probably explains why two out of the big three automakers needed a government bail-out. It could explain why so many companies are bankrupt, or on the edge. It could explain why America has more people out of work than at any time in our history, though the same sort of statisticians who operate market testing programs for broadcasters also cook the books for the government so that fake statistics can be published that make things look better than they really are.

 

[Avid Listener]

Two songs per hour is enough to cause issues without a doubt. It would impact TSL as it induces channel changing. The only control the radio listener has over the programming is the channel button, so a dud will cause a reach for the button, best known as "runoff". Same issue faced with long commercial breaks as well.

Funny you call radio "stale", with "corporate type playlists", yet in another post say that the key to McDonalds success is a short menu. McDonalds and radio are most successful when the reach the broadest audience and the recipe for achieving that are very similar - predictability and simplicity are proven winners.

One gets hungry, eats something, stops being hungry, and moves on. One doesn't get an urge for a song, listen to one, satisfy that need, and then move on. The closest comparison between McDonalds and radio is when you're stuck in traffic and want to hear a report about the alternate routes. Then, you tune in a station with traffic reports and when you've heard it, your done.

 

[BostonRandy]

Average listeners, music aficionados, people in the biz, radio people, former board ops, oldies "freaks" (as some of us were called once) and PD's frequent these forums.....It's just opinions.....and obviously, they all differ here.

Exactly. Which is why we should respect everyone's opinions. We all want the same thing: good radio.

 

[Avid Listener]

Even though this continuing discussion only seems to be among three or four of you, let me ask a realistic question. If you are listening to a station and hear an unfamiliar song or a song you don't like...what are you most likely to do?

1) Tune out the station

2) Say, oh wow, haven't heard that in a long time

3) See #1

In fairness, please answer with your own reply to what you'd do if that unfamiliar song was one you really did like, but you simply hadn't heard it in a while?

And, what about when you hear a song that used to be one of your favorites until overplay burned it out? Speaking only for myself, I can't remember the last time I tuned out a station because I heard something new or unfamiliar. But many is the time I've said to myself, "Oh ****. Not that turkey again!" There are more than a few classic hits that almost make me vomit when I hear them again, even though they used to be my favorites.

 

[TheFonz]

.



Heck, even vinyl records are coming back to an extent....Maybe record stores will return once again. We just never know anymore.

Someday, in a different thread, someone will have to explain to me why vinyl is coming back. I grew up with vinyl. While it's fun for nostalgia's sake to listen to those old scratchy, static-filled vinyl records, I would never want to seriously listen to music that way again.

 

[davideduardo]

That "fundamental" of the marketing model of business is one of the big reasons why business is such dire straits.

Huh? Companies are reporting healthy profits, stock market indexes from around the world are at record highs.

In places where the economy is in shambles... Venezuela pops to mind... we find government intervention and manipulation is the root cause.

The fact that so many companies depend on the inaccurate results of marketing research could help explain why the American economy is going into the toilet.

P&G pretty much invented modern market research in the 30's and has used a consumer-based model to sustain growth and profits for nearly 90 years. It was the companies that used a production-based model where engineers and chemists designed products with no consumer input that failed.

Over-reliance on market testing, which is probably even more pervasive than you indicate, probably explains why two out of the big three automakers needed a government bail-out.

The Detroit auto makers had problems, but research was not one of them. The Edsel and the Pinto were not researched... they were designed based on what the auto company thought would make the most money.

The Big Three's problems had at their root a failure to understand changes in consumer desires. Research could have fixed that. But bigger yet was the fear of strikes, which made the companies agree to contracts and pensions that later became unsustainable and which added 30% or more to the costs of cars vs. the models in other producing nations. The result was the cheap, ill-designed short-lived products we came to expect and still fear from Detroit products.

It could explain why so many companies are bankrupt, or on the edge.

Huh? That just is not so.

It could explain why America has more people out of work than at any time in our history

The percentage of people out of work is vastly lower than in the Great Depression or even during some of the lesser depressions in our nation's history.

More than anything, unemployment today has to do with the change of this country to a service driven economy where many no longer have the needed skills for employment or live in places where the jobs have disappeared.

though the same sort of statisticians who operate market testing programs for broadcasters also cook the books for the government so that fake statistics can be published that make things look better than they really are.

I'd expect nothing less from such a cynical birther mentality. It's BS.

 

[davideduardo]

Someday, in a different thread, someone will have to explain to me why vinyl is coming back. I grew up with vinyl. While it's fun for nostalgia's sake to listen to those old scratchy, static-filled vinyl records, I would never want to seriously listen to music that way again.

A piece of clean vinyl played through a hollow state amp is noticeably richer and more real sounding than digital.

 

[oldies76]

Someday, in a different thread, someone will have to explain to me why vinyl is coming back. I grew up with vinyl. While it's fun for nostalgia's sake to listen to those old scratchy, static-filled vinyl records, I would never want to seriously listen to music that way again.

New, unplayed records, out of package actually sound great. I have a copy of "Axel F" on a 45 from 1985 and I swear it could sound like it was from a CD or some original master for that matter, it's off a 45, sounds fabulous!!

Many older 45's sound horrible, from overuse, needle groove wear, jukebox wear and high treble distortion. I can relate to those being junk sounding, but the unplayed vinyl is incredible stuff!!

 

[davideduardo]

In fairness, please answer with your own reply to what you'd do if that unfamiliar song was one you really did like, but you simply hadn't heard it in a while?

You forget, conveniently, that radio stations in the top 50 markets can see exactly what happens each time a song plays. They can do rolling averages of multiple plays.

If you see a song causes a significant tune-out every time it is played, across days and dayparts, you might consider taking that negative piece of crap off the air.

If you have a current driven station, and you see a new song driving listeners away, with no improvement after a few weeks, you know you have a stiff.

And if you have a gold-based station, and a song you think is a classic causes measurable tune-out, you remove it. If you rest it a while, and re-add it and it does the same, you bury it.

 

[oldies76]

Huh? Companies are reporting healthy profits, stock market indexes from around the world are at record highs.

JC Penney, Radio Shack, possibly GM now, they are out there. What about all the small businesses losing out because of these big companies?? Wal-Mart is a great example. They might be doing good, but all the businesses they killed?? They are not laughing. Remember what Hollywood Video and Blockbuster did to all those mom and pop video stores??

I wonder now what these big radio companies will eventually do to the others that are hard at work just trying to make it?? ie...the Superhits, the Hippies, the KCMN's.....the list goes on.