WFAN to FM in NYC- what might it mean for Boston Radio

[reelyreal]

Here, let's try it one more time with feeling:

6+ numbers don't matter. They don't give any hints as to what the demo breakouts look like. They don't give any information about station rank in the demos.

When one studies the 6+ rankers, here's what one learns: NOTHING. Not a thing.

I repeat: Any argument using the 6+ numbers is a non-starter.

 

[Fenway1912]

Here, let's try it one more time with feeling:

6+ numbers don't matter. They don't give any hints as to what the demo breakouts look like. They don't give any information about station rank in the demos.

When one studies the 6+ rankers, here's what one learns: NOTHING. Not a thing.

I repeat: Any argument using the 6+ numbers is a non-starter.

True to a point.

But the 6+ numbers show stations that have a 'pulse' regardless of demos.

That said - WODS has retained the cume it had but now obviously skews younger which makes it easier for sales ( which is 100% commission and their sales people are all under 30)

I suspect WRKO loses money for Entercom but WEEI could be an even bigger loser because of the Red Sox contract. This season about 30% of inventory went unsold and it may get worse next year as the Red Sox will not contend for awhile.

WBZ-AM's 6 plus numbers has been dropping at an alarming rate and you have to assume the demo is skewing old.

The best buy in Boston radio today is Matty as women from 14 to 64 love him.

 

[HHH]

Could it be that rock-based formats on terrestrial radio are failing in many places due to the theory that the many in the rock audience no longer consider radio their prime source for music service?

 

[reelyreal]

I'd agree when it comes to new rock formats. WZLX is number 1 men 25-54 month after month. When it comes to new rock music, the sub-genres are so fragmented that it's much easier to get exactly what you want online or from a personal music collection. Example: I love alternative, I despise active rock. If I'm looking to hear Young The Giant and M83 and I have to hear Puddle of Mudd or Godsmack in between, I'm pissed and I'm off to Pandora.

 

[HHH]

I'd agree when it comes to new rock formats. WZLX is number 1 men 25-54 month after month. When it comes to new rock music, the sub-genres are so fragmented that it's much easier to get exactly what you want online or from a personal music collection. Example: I love alternative, I despise active rock. If I'm looking to hear Young The Giant and M83 and I have to hear Puddle of Mudd or Godsmack in between, I'm pissed and I'm off to Pandora.

Yes, that's what I mean....new rock formats.

And you seem to pinpoint some of the challenge with your slicing the new rock pie so specifically in what you like and hate.

 

[aaronread]

BTW, all the "allegedly" qualifiers is because, AFAIK, none of us have access to the ratings for the demographics that these stations care about, much less the actual revenue numbers (which are what really matter for determining "success").

I have access to these ratings numbers and for WAAF things are not very pretty.

Fair enough. Within the limitations of what can be quoted publicly, that's reasonably helpful info.

By chance do you have similar access to the desired-demo numbers for WRKO or even WTKK? That would put a lot of the discussion to rest if we know that both WAAF's numbers are weak in their desired demographics AND that WRKO's numbers are either equal or better in *their* desired demographics. If that's the case, then the argument to "blow up" WKAF and make it a simulcast of WRKO starts making a lot more sense.

It's still not a lock, of course. Ratings are one thing. Revenue is what really matters. Obviously the two are at least partially connected, but it's possible to have strong ratings but weak sales...and equally possible to have weak ratings but strong sales.

Someone else mentioned WEEI; that's an excellent point. Many people pontificated that the record 10-year/$200mil contract Entercom signed with the Red Sox in 2006 (IIRC) would eventually become an albatross around their neck. ISTR that in 2008 WEEI alone cleared $35mil in gross revenue so even paying $20mil to the Sox wasn't a problem...but the salad days are probably over by now. I'm sure the Great Recession has pushed spot values down, and the Sox stinking up the joint for the last season and a half have pushed them down even further. Going to FM on 93.7 undoubtedly helped, but did it help enough? Hard to say. Of course, if the Sox stage a comeback next season, you can bet the cash will start rollin' in again.

Obviously without access to the actual numbers, this is all speculation. Logical speculation, but speculation nonetheless.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Blowing up only WKAF would serve no purpose for WRKO. It's class A coverage is entirely within both the day and night signal for 680, and WRKO puts a good signal into Boston day and night.

Now WAAF is a different story...

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Blowing up only WKAF would serve no purpose for WRKO. It's class A coverage is entirely within both the day and night signal for 680, and WRKO puts a good signal into Boston day and night.

The (hypothetical) purpose wouldn't be coverage, it would be migration from AM to the FM band, which is believed to have become more popular and listened to than AM.

 

[Fenway1912]

It is ALWAYS about the revenue.

It drove David Brudnoy nuts but the Bruins on WBZ-AM was a big moneymaker for the station.

Entercom is also facing a problem keeping WTIC-1080 Hartford as a Sox station as CBS is sending signals they may make 1080 a Mets station with WFAN going to FM. The Mets have no network to speak of and 1080 would solve some coverage holes.

 

[TSBench]

It is ALWAYS about the revenue.

Not on an individual program basis. With the major players, the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts. Stations are programmed with the big picture in mind, not "ummm...how much revenue does the overnight guy generate between 3am and 4am...."

It drove David Brudnoy nuts but the Bruins on WBZ-AM was a big moneymaker for the station.

They were? Hockey is the pro sport which LEAST lends inself to radio play-by-play and was always a tough sell, which is why the radio rights were cheap. I'd be surprized if the Bruins netted substantially, if any, more revenue than Bruds. And Bruds always did better numbers.

BZ was one of the stations which programmed sports for reasons other than immediate revenue generation, per se.

Regards,
TSB

 

[dyeingeye]

I suspect WRKO loses money for Entercom but WEEI could be an even bigger loser because of the Red Sox contract. This season about 30% of inventory went unsold and it may get worse next year as the Red Sox will not contend for awhile.

Chad Finn wrote today that Meterperel is going to leave D&C soon, but stay on with BC sports. Is that a sign of cost cutting?

 

[reelyreal]

It is ALWAYS about the revenue.

It drove David Brudnoy nuts but the Bruins on WBZ-AM was a big moneymaker for the station.

Entercom is also facing a problem keeping WTIC-1080 Hartford as a Sox station as CBS is sending signals they may make 1080 a Mets station with WFAN going to FM. The Mets have no network to speak of and 1080 would solve some coverage holes.

That's a real long shot, trust me. Sox is a huge revenue generator for TIC, and there's a miniscule if any Mets following in the Hartford region. Mets would be more of a tune-out for listeners, especially with a 162-game schedule.

If the Sox end up off TIC, the Mets sure won't be replacing them.

 

[Fenway1912]

It is ALWAYS about the revenue.

Not on an individual program basis. With the major players, the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts. Stations are programmed with the big picture in mind, not "ummm...how much revenue does the overnight guy generate between 3am and 4am...."

It drove David Brudnoy nuts but the Bruins on WBZ-AM was a big moneymaker for the station.

They were? Hockey is the pro sport which LEAST lends inself to radio play-by-play and was always a tough sell, which is why the radio rights were cheap. I'd be surprized if the Bruins netted substantially, if any, more revenue than Bruds. And Bruds always did better numbers.

BZ was one of the stations which programmed sports for reasons other than immediate revenue generation, per se.

Regards,
TSB

BZ did very well with hockey. They did get the rights for very little cash as the Bruins were 'homeless' when WBNW went bust.

 

[thirdendorsed]

I can see WRKO moving to 97.7 within a year or two and having a business focused WRKO on AM.

The threshold question is whether the declining audience is because of the inferiority of the AM signal.

I don't think so.

Putting a failing AM station on FM only means a failing station on FM.

 

[iyiyi]

I'd agree when it comes to new rock formats. WZLX is number 1 men 25-54 month after month. When it comes to new rock music, the sub-genres are so fragmented that it's much easier to get exactly what you want online or from a personal music collection. Example: I love alternative, I despise active rock. If I'm looking to hear Young The Giant and M83 and I have to hear Puddle of Mudd or Godsmack in between, I'm pissed and I'm off to Pandora.

WZLX is where many people that are too old to rock but too young to die go. They are not a music leader by any stretch. Vast majority of WZLX P1s haven't the faintest idea what "Radiohead" or "M83" is.

WBOS decided to play new rock and have been racking up solid 4s since. First stations that I ever heard play Puddle of Mudd and Godsmack were the Alternative ones.

WAAF is the sleeper here. If they'd just shut up and go full tilt Active rock, they will RULE! Another good "alternative" is for CC to flip WJMN to active (ala WHJY) and give this City a real Boston rocker!

-

 

[reelyreal]

If too old to rock but too young to die means 25-54, then you're right. I've seen the rankers. WZLX is consistently top 3 in that demo, and almost always 1.

 

[blackgold]

You're never too old to rock and roll! Chuck Berry and Chubby Checker are still doing it.