What Can Save AM Radio in Southern California?

[emailfailed]

Aside from KFI and KNX, it seems AM radio in Southern California has had a very tough time for many years.

I would attribute the decline to the ground conductivity that is unable to serve such an expanded metropolis like Southern California.

Southern California already doesn't have the best ground conductivity and as you go inland it becomes worse.

This, combined with lots of modern RF interference can make listening to AM radio in Southern California almost, if not, unbearable.

So, is there anything that could save AM radio?

 

[michael hagerty]

Define "save".

If you mean "is there anything that will make a mass audience return to a radio band with noise issues and lower fidelity than FM?", the answer is no.

If you mean "can we get one or two of the stronger signals other than KFI and KNX to get good ratings again?", the answer is a highly conditional maybe.

If you mean "could the FCC eliminate short-spacing, abolish IBOC, outlaw devices that create interference on the AM band of the public airwaves, require licensees to repair and maintain the radials at their tower sites, require AM recievers built in the future to be high-quality wideband units and settle on a single standard for stereo?", the answer is yes. But it'll never happen.

 

[Lopaka]

So what is the future for AM? Seriously, where will the industry be in 10 or 20 years? I have my own ideas, I'd like to hear yours.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

If you mean "could the FCC...abolish IBOC..."

Mr. Hagerty just got crossed off of the Christmas card lists of Booble Struble and Glynn Walden.

I would second the "wideband" idea. AM radios generally sound horrible, whether I-CRAPping
or in analog. 5 kHz bandwidth doesn't even work for my ears with voice, much less spots
with music, jingles, sounders, etc. Gimme 10 (kHz)!

If you have an old Sony SRF-A100 and there's an AM playing moldy oldies, wideband it and
patch it into your home stereo system. Sounds pretty good.

 

[TheBigA]

So, is there anything that could save AM radio?

Didn't we just have a thread on this about KABC?

Look, this is really only an issue for boomers over the age of 50. What we're talking about is some kind of preservation of the past. Because all other avenues here have been exhausted. The FCC ruined AM radio a long time ago. They over licensed the band, cut back on power, and removed all requirements. Then we had misguided attempts at AM stereo and IBOC. Neither were of any use.

So what about preservation of the past. In the scarcity of spectrum environment, AM radio was very important. Now that everyone has access to an audience, the spectrum scarcity is no longer as important. Technically speaking, AM is inferior to FM. Low power AMs are inferior to high power AMs. So that sort of answers the question.

Given that the American system of broadcasting is based around commercial radio, I'd say there's not much that can save AM as it is now. The FCC would have to reverse a lot of its bad decisions, and perhaps make it advantageous for profit making companies to donate their AM frequencies to non-profit organizations that might be more willing to use the stations as museums from the past. I could see some non-profit foundations set up to preserve old time AM radio, make it sound the way it did 50 years ago, supported by donations from boomers and similarly motivated companies. Sort of like groups who preserve drive-ins, merry-go-rounds, and roller coasters. But it's all a huge long shot, and the FCC doesn't seem predisposed to do anything with these frequencies. I think IBOC was the last chance for an electronics manufacturer to attempt to build something designed to improve the frequency response of AM radio. It's failure makes it very unlikely that anyone will invest money in improving AM radio.

 

[w9wi]

So what is the future for AM? Seriously, where will the industry be in 10 or 20 years? I have my own ideas, I'd like to hear yours.

Legal pirates?

(I'm not so sure that's that far off the mark. As the big, successful stations acquire FM relays, at some point they have to ask "why are we leaving the AM on the air?". FM translators for the smaller stations, that'll be harder to pull off legally (getting rid of the AM that's being relayed) but you've gotta think they'll try.

Once we see the big, successful stations abandon AM, people will have even less of a reason to sample the band than they do now.

TheBigA probably has part of the solution: non-profit operation with programming that's not commercially successful but might attract enough listener donations to pay the bills.

(actually, something similar has already been suggested for WSM. It's the *only* Gaylord Entertainment station today, and it's not doing very well in the $$$ department. It's been suggested the station be handed over to the Country Music Hall of Fame and operated as an adjunct of that organization -- as TheBigA suggests, a museum piece.)

IMHO the first nails went into AM's coffin in the late 1940s, when the FCC began licensing daytime-only stations left and right. More nails went in the late 1950s and through the 1960s are more and more of these stations were able to install highly-directional arrays and operate at night. "Exurbanization" - massive settlement in the 1970s and 1980s in suburban areas that nobody thought would be significantly populated when directional antennas were designed 20 years earlier - drove a few more nails. The failure to enforce Part 15 through the 1980s probably sealed the lid.

If you could roll back most of this -- delete all the Class D stations and any Class B operation that can't cover the entire metropolitan area at night -- and get rid of every piece of electronic gear that emits spurious signals in the AM band -- you maybe could have saved AM through the mid-90s. It would have been politically impossible then, and it would be pointless today.

 

[nmoore6676]

I read in another place that the government has been placing 5KW transmitters in hardened enclosures at AM transmitter locations. It has always been my contention that AM radio is more viable in case of a massive disaster to reach wide areas. But that only works if there are still receivers and people who would use them. Perhaps instead of cluttering up the FM band with a new group of LPFM stations for community broadcasters, why not put them on AM and gradually migrate the existing LPFM to the AM band. That would create a better FM band and at the same time a cadre of AM users which would be able to receive emergency information should the need arise.

 

[AM FM listener]

The FCC would have to reverse a lot of its bad decisions, and perhaps make it advantageous for profit making companies to donate their AM frequencies to non-profit organizations that might be more willing to use the stations as museums from the past. I could see some non-profit foundations set up to preserve old time AM radio, make it sound the way it did 50 years ago, supported by donations from boomers and similarly motivated companies.

I like the idea of AM radio becoming the home of non-profit or public broadcasting. Open the lower FM band to commercial radio, which may cause commercial radio companies to make offers to non-profit organization that they can't refuse, especially if NPR's budget get cut drastically. In fact, commercial companies could offer an AM station and lots of cash to a non-profit in exchange for their FM signal. For example, Cumulus could offer AM 790 and cash to Santa Monica College for FM 89.9. KCRW would be on AM 790 and KABC would be on FM 89.9.

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps instead of cluttering up the FM band with a new group of LPFM stations for community broadcasters, why not put them on AM and gradually migrate the existing LPFM to the AM band.

I asked that exact question and was told that AM transmitters and towers are more expensive to operate than LPFM.

 

[K6JHU]

Canada is dumping AM
Areas of Mexico have dumped AM
UK is trying to dump AM

Do I detect a pattern here

 

[Tom Wells]

Canada is dumping AM
Areas of Mexico have dumped AM
UK is trying to dump AM

Do I detect a pattern here

Yes, it looks like "managed, intentional devaluation of spectrum with unique, valuable characteristics".

The "intent" is to better control dissemination of information through "appropriate channels".

It is important to someone, somewhere, that information comes to us not directly from a "local" source, wherever that may be
but through proper channels and national networks, so that information can have the proper spin.

Example: The "issue" in Wisconsin. On a Wisconsin station, you may hear multiple, dissonant perspectives on the issue.
In national coverage, it is just another done deal, and "good for the people of Wisconsin".
Thanks for the "corporatist view', national media, we already know what corporations think of individuals.

Destroying AM will help ensure that no one will be motivated to drive from Chicago to "help" with something
goverment would rather see squashed.

When all information is able to be tightly controlled into local markets, well, then there is more control.

MW has been hated by numerous tyrannical governments precisely because it is too hard to control geographically.

I'll sure "Mr Crosley" had a lot of fun saying hello to "Mr Hitler" on WLW.
Mr Hitler, if you remember, was the guy who decided that people should only be allowed to have stone-deaf MW receivers.

 

[Lopaka]

Crosley was a Hitler backer? Sorry to hear that. In fairness though in the early days many Americans including Charles Lindbergh supported Hitler, before he showed his hand. Still this is very disappointing.

AM is one of those technologies like newspapers that time is passing by. Newspapers will probably continue to exist but smaller in every sense. That may be the future for AM too. I would like to see the gvt. authorize very small scale, like 30 watt, neighborhood stations, with regs designed to minimize operating cost, true mom and pop operations, nobody could own more than one. No fascism or neo Naziism permitted but other than that, turn the band over to the people and let them do with that portion of the band what they want. One of the big problems that is killing AM is lack of innovation, having lots of new interesting material broadcast might bring interest back to the whole band, some kid in a garage somewhere could come up with a format or two that might revolutionize the whole industry.

 

[Tom Wells]

Crosley was a Hitler backer? Sorry to hear that. In fairness though in the early days many Americans including Charles Lindbergh supported Hitler, before he showed his hand. Still this is very disappointing.

AM is one of those technologies like newspapers that time is passing by. Newspapers will probably continue to exist but smaller in every sense. That may be the future for AM too. I would like to see the gvt. authorize very small scale, like 30 watt, neighborhood stations, with regs designed to minimize operating cost, true mom and pop operations, nobody could own more than one. No fascism or neo Naziism permitted but other than that, turn the band over to the people and let them do with that portion of the band what they want. One of the big problems that is killing AM is lack of innovation, having lots of new interesting material broadcast might bring interest back to the whole band, some kid in a garage somewhere could come up with a format or two that might revolutionize the whole industry.

NO, no... sorry for any misunderstanding... Mr Crosley was poking his finger in the eye of Mr Hitler, who didn't want the
people to hear anything the US allies had to say. WLW was audible in Europe, much to the dismay of the Nazis.

Mr Henry FORD though Hitler was on the right track.....

I agree AM should become the mom-n-pop band, if that's the best term. I'm ready to build the cleanest 30 watt AM amp ever, as soon as the
FCC sees that there really is a need for "non-commercial" formats.

 

[K6JHU]

I would have gone the other way. The argument was made that only KFI and KNX can survive because of their high power. Maybe it is time to go to Mr Crosley's idea. A few 500+ kw stations that would be viable, and the rest of the band to educational.

 

[TheBigA]

I agree AM should become the mom-n-pop band, if that's the best term. I'm ready to build the cleanest 30 watt AM amp ever, as soon as the
FCC sees that there really is a need for "non-commercial" formats.

But that's what's wrong with AM now. Lots of pea shooters with no money. That's why no one listens except for the two big powerhouses per city. There's no point having lots of nothing. Mom & pop can't pay the electric bill for the tower & lights, much less invest in real content.

The only way to create value is to limit the number. That's why it worked in the 1940s. Cut the number of licenses, increase the power and bandwidth, and then you'll have a revival of interest. Until then, you have a ghetto with burned out storefronts and crack houses.

 

[Tom Wells]

I agree AM should become the mom-n-pop band, if that's the best term. I'm ready to build the cleanest 30 watt AM amp ever, as soon as the
FCC sees that there really is a need for "non-commercial" formats.

But that's what's wrong with AM now. Lots of pea shooters with no money. That's why no one listens except for the two big powerhouses per city. There's no point having lots of nothing. Mom & pop can't pay the electric bill for the tower & lights, much less invest in real content.

The only way to create value is to limit the number. That's why it worked in the 1940s. Cut the number of licenses, increase the power and bandwidth, and then you'll have a revival of interest. Until then, you have a ghetto with burned out storefronts and crack houses.

Agreed on limiting outlets. But that's why daytimers were created in the first place.

Ghettos are very subjective. I find many modern "too nice and clean to believe" places as undesirable as a ghetto,
because there are never people on the streets, and everything happens out at some giant contrived marketplace designed
to be driven to, with huge parking lots, on private property often now in some contrived foot-traffic street that mimics
a REAL street from a REAL city in some imaginary place.

I've seen these in Minneapolis and Raleigh-Durham, I suppose they are in every nice/clean suburban area.
They repel me in the same way as "safe, proven, "tests well", and other radio-ism reasons why blandness is fiscally mandatory.

The ghetto also has really great fried fish, the best ribs ever, soul food, authentic ethnic food, wig stores, hat stores, etc.
If everyone stays away, it'll just have to stay at that level.
Fantastic, but unappreciated by the masses who won't look for anything other than Olive Garden out on any of countless versions of
Desolation boulevard.


The problem is "herd mentality", combined with a corporation-type focus only on money.

I can find no coorelation to the $$ flow or value of any station vs. the enjoyment I have recieved from them at times.
Some were making a lot of money, some were in total collapse, but either still able to do that special thing that radio does.

I hope it's not necessary to explain what that is....

 

[Lopaka]

Actually the old idea of "superpower" always appealed to me because it took advantage of AM's natural carrying power. The ability to cover a huge area is an important national asset that shouldn't be wasted. "Whew", I am very glad to hear Mr. Crosley was not a Hitler supporter! Seriously.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem is "herd mentality", combined with a corporation-type focus only on money.

I can find no coorelation to the $$ flow or value of any station vs. the enjoyment I have recieved from them at times.
Some were making a lot of money, some were in total collapse, but either still able to do that special thing that radio does.

At the end of the day, it takes money to create unique content that appeals to large audiences. It all starts with money and a dream. You need both. But you can't just have the dream and no money. Or vice versa. Right now, those who have money don't have a vision for what to do with it. Those with the vision can't get the funding. That's why things are the way they are.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes, it looks like "managed, intentional devaluation of spectrum with unique, valuable characteristics".

Canada has left AMs, such as CBK in Watrous (Saskatchewan plains) where the AM would render a good service. They have allowed abandoned AM licenses in larger metros to sign on with new owners who offer specialized services to groups that exist in places like Toronto and Vancouver.

Mexico determined that AMs were approaching a point where they would not be economically viable, and has made provisions for as many as 75% of all AMs to move to FM, thus not depriving the audience of diversity in programming due to the reduction of "real" radio service (they saw that a band nobody listened to did not provide service or diversity). Throughout Latin America, there has been great attrition in the number of AMs: El Salvador has half the stations of 25 years ago, and half are now evangelical / Christian in a nation where 90% of the population is Catholic. Chile has seen a formerly leading 100 kw AM in Santiago, a market of 5 million, sign of due to losses and "no prospects" even in a boom economy. Quito, with 50 FMs, is losing almost all its AMs.

When either market realities that kill AM listening or the availability of enough FM channels for AMs to move, nobody will want to be on AM.

It is important to someone, somewhere, that information comes to us not directly from a "local" source, wherever that may be but through proper channels and national networks, so that information can have the proper spin.

I don't see the relationship between control and AM (of course, with so many distribution methods, I don't see an issue there anyway). A market with a news talk station on FM is no different than one with the format on AM, except that in most markets the full signal FM covers more than any of the local AMs (Madison, WI, being a great example and one that you raised).

Destroying AM will help ensure that no one will be motivated to drive from Chicago to "help" with something goverment would rather see squashed.

Huh? What Madison station can be heard by the average Jane or Joe in Chicago? None. Even thinking that anyone who does not need a walker might find WTMJ and actually listen is totally disingenuous.

When you look at AM listening, it is predominantly over 55, and under age 35 nearly non-existent except for the cases where play by play sports are only on AM. In some markets, AM listening is now way below 10% of the total, and in a number it is around 5%. Only a few markets have even two full coverage AMs, and many have none!

MW has been hated by numerous tyrannical governments precisely because it is too hard to control geographically.

It's historically been Short Wave that has crossed borders... not MW. Except for a few cases, like Berlin, where a city was divided by the Iron Curtain, AM does not do a good job of covering populations of one country from the territory of another. USIS has used an AM in the Keys to "cover" Cuba, but there is little evidence that the signal gets widespread reception. VOA had a megawatt in the Philippines on 1140, aimed at China, with little evidence it was being heard. Save a few cases, MW is not useful for "preserving freedom" as it is easily blocked.

So far, we have the general public... two generations of it... rejecting AM and no evidence that any programming works "better" on AM.

 

[TheBigA]

Destroying AM will help ensure that no one will be motivated to drive from Chicago to "help" with something
goverment would rather see squashed.

That may have been true in 1935, but it's not true now. Yesterday I watched CNN broadcast live from the grounds of the Wisconsin state capitol building, speaking with protestors attacking the anti-union decision. And they weren't the only broadcasters there. Broadcasting and media today is much much much more than AM radio. The radio-only focus is restricting potential growth for radio. Radio can become a more effective competitor with other media when it recognizes radio's role in the overall media marketplace, and capitalizes on it.