I know in many markets new towers have been errected to accomodate hdtv signals leaving the old tower running with the analog antenna. If there are no other tenants does anyone know or speculate what will happen to these usually large towers after the switchover. I know of two "analog" only towers 1000+ feet in my area with no FM or LPTV tenants.
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What happens to the analog only tv towers after the 2009 switch????
- Thread starter Fieldtech1
- Start date
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either be changed to dtv aux or dismantled......Fieldtech1 said:
Here in New Zealand they are rolling out terrestrial digital in conjunction with satellite services - so the old analog services will be run for a few years alongside TD and eventually they'll pull the plug.
The towers that currently host the analog services are being upgraded for the TD systems - and in most places there are other services using tower space such as FM broadcast, radio telephone links, microwave links etc. There are very few "TV only" towers here.
The towers that currently host the analog services are being upgraded for the TD systems - and in most places there are other services using tower space such as FM broadcast, radio telephone links, microwave links etc. There are very few "TV only" towers here.
In unique cases, like the Roxborough Tower Farm in Phila, there may be a glut of space. I think a lot of signal owners will want to renegotiate their rents at renewal. Others, whose signal has been adulterated by construction, like the new Comcast Building VS. the signals of WMMR and WRNB, may want to finally move out of the city to the farm.
http://fybush.com/site-031002.html
http://fybush.com/site-031009.html
http://fybush.com/site-031002.html
http://fybush.com/site-031009.html
A number of stations are electing to remain on their (analog) VHf channel (and thereby the same antenna)--simply rolling in a new digital exciter or more modern transmitter; rather than building a new high-power digital channel on UHF.
Case in point: WPVI, Philadelphia.
The high VHF channels (and probably 6 as well) are "beachfront" property, with good building penetration and rural coverage. Low V is not so good, apparently skip does a number on the digital signal.
Case in point: WPVI, Philadelphia.
The high VHF channels (and probably 6 as well) are "beachfront" property, with good building penetration and rural coverage. Low V is not so good, apparently skip does a number on the digital signal.
Ch 6 WPVI has already moved to Ch 64. Here's Philly's reassignments. I believe ALL those VHF stations, except a few LPTV, will sunset on 2/9/09.
Her's the list: http://www.hdpictures.com/stations.htm
Her's the list: http://www.hdpictures.com/stations.htm
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amfmsw said:
Several months back WPVI 'elected' to remain on Channel 6 post transition (They are running their interim digital service on 64). On other boards, people debated the wisdom of this, as 6 is still low band V with all the accompanying problems (tropo, skip). Knowing how analog 6 is affected here on the Jersey Shore, especially in summer, it'll be interesting to see how it performs with digital.
Here's the post-transition predicted reception at my house:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29
amfmsw said:
That's a list of interim DTV assignments. Many of those channels will change next February. (Feb. 18th) ALL of the channels above 51 in that list will change next year. Including WPVI's channel 64, which will in fact return to channel 6. WPVI's permanent channel 6 DTV permit calls for using their existing analog antenna, so at least in this case the existing tower will stay up.
In general, contrary to early publicity, VHF is not going away for DTV. Not counting LPTV, there will be forty permanent DTV stations in channels 2-6 and 452 in channels 7-13. What is going away are all channels above 51.
Don said:
Your link doesn't work, but that's okay. I'm sure it was extremely over-optimistic anyway. It's not TVFool's fault, of course, they go by the FCC's guidelines, which are themselves faulty. They use a much lower noise-limit threshold to determine coverage, but this doesn't take into account the fact that there's just more noise in general on channels 2-6.
I already have a low-VHF digital (PBS) that I have direct line-of-sight to, and cannot keep it locked 90% of the time with a dedicated VHF roof antenna. You ask how it will perform out on the Shore, I will tell you to enjoy ABC before 02/17/09, because you won't be enjoying it after.
Everything interferes with it. If we discount skip for a moment, which I'm sure will be just a blast for all involved, everything electrical will cause dropouts. Don't try to vaccum, or blend, or shred, or use anything like that while watching WPVI, you'll lose it. Don't try to watch during thunderstorms, even if you can't see lightning or hear thunder, as long as it's between you and the tower, you'll get tons of dropouts.
Also, expect a lot of random pixelization and sound drops. You won't know where they're coming from, but they'll occur, usually at the least convenient times.
Low VHF should not have been kept for digital TV. It doesn't work, and I've seen plenty of first-hand evidence of this. *Rant off*
As far as the subject at hand, I know some towers are going to become towers for auxiliary facilities. Others will be dismantled, and still others will be used for other purposes. Some will likely just be abandoned and sit there doing nothing, though in cities where these are, this is generally less likely.
Given how hard it is to get a tower built anymore (with NIMBYs and all that), I imagine that unless the tower has some structural problem that prevents them from reusing it, most towers will remain in-tact for other purposes.
- Trip
Lightning does quite a number on Low VHF as well. I've seen it trash Indy's WISH DT 9 on the Columbus cable system (40 miles out) during a tornado warning for Columbus...right when it's most crucial, it fails. In an ideal world, all HD would be on UHF...but only time will shed enough light on this.TomT said:
tripinva said:
I have to wonder what's going to become of the VHF digital stations. They say they're permanent, but permanent can change in the world of government policy. I know some stations, like WMC-TV and WTVF, were out of core for digital and may have felt they were probably going to get a channel they didn't want regardless while some others, like KCWX, got forced there. However, some think these stations may be gambling that they'll get an increase in power eventually, especially considering very few stations decided to locate there.
An engineer in, I believe, Sacramento found he had a lot of trouble receive a digital on one of the high UHF channels. While he didn't encounter any pixellating or drop outs, he said it was almost impossible for him to receive the station because 1,000,000 watts just wasn't enough power at that high of a frequency. He concluded that being able to operate at higher power on low VHF, closer to what analogs on those frequencies run, would make for an incredible signal that could easily overcome all of the interference issues. However, the notion that will ever happen may be a little far-fetched.
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Bill_W said:
I live in Ocean County. I get all Philly analogs fine. I hate Crapcast with a passion and will never subscribe to them if I can avoid it. And why should I have to pay a cable company to watch broadcast TV?
As for Cape May County, I believe the Philly stations are a tough catch without an antenna tower.
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tripinva said:
Sorry about the link, Trip.
Are you achieving better reception with the UHF digital stations in your area?
Yes, in fact I'd venture to say I have more luck with the UHF digitals than I do with the UHF analogs. While the analogs can appear snowy and fade from time to time, the digital remains consistent and strong. The only problems I have are analog co-channel problems, where there's a digital on channel 20 and then an analog on channel 20 coming from another direction that interferes, and that will be going away in 2009.
I visit my grandparents who live in Bergen County a few times a year and have no trouble receiving anything up there with my digital receiver and a Silver Sensor, even WNET-DT 61 with their 12 kW worked fine in the right position. While that's not nearly as far out as Ocean County is, the digital signal is far superior to the snowy, ghosty analog signals that otherwise show up, especially from NJN (WNJN is usually quite ghosty, but the digital is just fine).
Don't worry about the link, I understood what you meant and have a general idea of what signal is like in that area based on the maps I've seen. =)
I just want to wish you the best of luck with WPVI-DT on 6, assuming you are using OTA to receive it. You'll need all the luck you can get.
- Trip
I visit my grandparents who live in Bergen County a few times a year and have no trouble receiving anything up there with my digital receiver and a Silver Sensor, even WNET-DT 61 with their 12 kW worked fine in the right position. While that's not nearly as far out as Ocean County is, the digital signal is far superior to the snowy, ghosty analog signals that otherwise show up, especially from NJN (WNJN is usually quite ghosty, but the digital is just fine).
Don't worry about the link, I understood what you meant and have a general idea of what signal is like in that area based on the maps I've seen. =)
I just want to wish you the best of luck with WPVI-DT on 6, assuming you are using OTA to receive it. You'll need all the luck you can get.
- Trip
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nightfly61
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I don't have cable where I live in Ohio. Once the switch happens, will I be able to turn on my old t.v with rabbit ears & pick up Canadian stations bettersince the digital stuff'll be off on a different frequency leaving me free to pick up non digital stuff clearer? (The poor folks channels! 
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I also wonder once the switchover happens, will "white noise" static be eliminated? Since with digital it's either on or off? ???Instead of static it'll just be a blue screen?
) I also wonder once the switchover happens, will "white noise" static be eliminated? Since with digital it's either on or off? ???Instead of static it'll just be a blue screen?
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nightfly61 said:I don't have cable where I live in Ohio. Once the switch happens, will I be able to turn on my old t.v with rabbit ears & pick up Canadian stations bettersince the digital stuff'll be off on a different frequency leaving me free to pick up non digital stuff clearer? (The poor folks channels!
I also wonder once the switchover happens, will "white noise" static be eliminated? Since with digital it's either on or off? ???Instead of static it'll just be a blue screen?
If there is no digital or LP analog signal on the channel you are trying to pickup a Canadian signal on, yes...it will be clearer...As for the blue screen, that only happens in TVs that do blue screen on loss of video sync (~15kHz)....An analog TV that blue screens on static will also blue screen on DTV as there is nothing there for the TV to decode. Remember, there will be Low Power and translator analogs still left on the air (only "Full Service"/high power stations are affected by the analog sunset)..
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