What in the WORLD happened to radio?

[SirRoxalot]

Please do not believe that it's just due to not having to hear commercials.

That's the primary reason. But it varies by format. Terrestrial radio really doesn't offer a Metal format. They combine it with other types of rock. But as far as the country channels, Highway 16 plays the exact same music as any terrestrial country station, but with no commercials and very few interruptions.

So, what you're saying is that satellite radio is a superior music delivery system that terrestrial radio can't compete with.

 

[TheBigA]

So, what you're saying is that satellite radio is a superior music delivery system that terrestrial radio can't compete with.

Did I say that? No. It's a different music delivery system. Different strokes for different folks. For some, it's superior. Right now, that's about 7% of the population. Obviously not superior enough to pay for it.

 

[SirRoxalot]

So, what you're saying is that satellite radio is a superior music delivery system that terrestrial radio can't compete with.

Did I say that? No. It's a different music delivery system. Different strokes for different folks. For some, it's superior. Right now, that's about 7% of the population. Obviously not superior enough to pay for it.

7%? Last I heard, Sirius XM was claiming 12-million listeners. That's about 4% of the 305-million citizens of the US.

Now, on to semantics: You said that "not having to hear commercials" was the primary reason that businesses - particularly gyms - selected satellite as a music delivery system. Along with "fewer interruptions" from those pesky air personalities that you have so little respect for. It's hard for anyone to draw any inference other than that you think that satellite radio - or at least a terrestrially delivered version of it - isn't superior to todays typical radio content.

Perhaps you'd conceed that a handfull of major syndicated talents might be worth paid airtime. Otherwise, we should just leave things in the hands of unpaid volunteers at a bunch of non-commercial radio stations.

I'm puzzled by only one thing in regards to your vision of radio's future. How are transactional sales supposed to be made when everybody ends up with a 3-share of the dwindling audience? It's gonna be tough to drive rate under those circumstances.

 

[TheBigA]

7%? Last I heard, Sirius XM was claiming 12-million listeners.

Their latest published number is 19 million.

It's hard for anyone to draw any inference other than that you think that satellite radio - or at least a terrestrially delivered version of it - isn't superior to todays typical radio content.

Believe what you want to believe. I know what I said. I'm not making qualitative judgements for the listening public. It's an option that's available to them, and I'm aware that a lot of retail establishments use satellite instead of terrestrial. From what I understand, it has become the new Muzak.

I'm puzzled by only one thing in regards to your vision of radio's future. How are transactional sales supposed to be made when everybody ends up with a 3-share of the dwindling audience? It's gonna be tough to drive rate under those circumstances.

That's not my area of expertise. But from what I can see, music taste is what's causing the fractionalization of radio ratings, not programming. Which is why I believe there isn't much future in music formats on ad-supported radio. Or any form of ad-supported media, including the internet.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Yeah, subscription music services will dominate over free music...

Here's an article you might want to take a glance at. According to Arbitron, sat radio gets about 3.4% of the audience:

http://www.mediabuyerplanner.com/entry/37678/arbitron-satellite-snares-34-of-total-radio-listening-time/

With prices going up, we'll see how that number reacts...

 

[heydaybegone]

Just curious
Just food for thought
What happens to "satellite radio" when all the new cars, flying off the lots--thank you clunkers program, that come equipped with it including an "introductory" subscription included in the price.......suddenly find themselves having to pay for the service? Hmmmmm. Another time bomb, or will satellite override the bill paying priorities that still exist?
Have fun ;D
That's all

(and what's up with no emotioncons?)

 

[Mike Sheridan]

VH-1 Classic showed the movie "FM" Monday night. What a hoot, if only someone would take over a few bland over commercialized stations that we have today! Those folks were on to something!

 

[average_listener]

Just curious
Just food for thought
What happens to "satellite radio" when all the new cars, flying off the lots--thank you clunkers program, that come equipped with it including an "introductory" subscription included in the price.......suddenly find themselves having to pay for the service? Hmmmmm. Another time bomb, or will satellite override the bill paying priorities that still exist?

In my case (and my wife's) we kept the subs. We already had sat radio so we dropped the old units and put the new radios on. I know where my priorities are...

 

[Element9]

Just curious
Just food for thought
What happens to "satellite radio" when all the new cars, flying off the lots--thank you clunkers program, that come equipped with it including an "introductory" subscription included in the price.......suddenly find themselves having to pay for the service? Hmmmmm. Another time bomb, or will satellite override the bill paying priorities that still exist?

In my case (and my wife's) we kept the subs. We already had sat radio so we dropped the old units and put the new radios on. I know where my priorities are...

From what's been published in many of the trades, after the complimentary period ends, the number of buyers choosing to purchase subscriptions is substantially lower than has been projected. Eventually, this stat will catch up to Mel & Co., if it hasn't already. Satellite radio is still very much in the red.

As to what happened to radio? It's seen its "customer service" factor and listener base erode. Gotta say "please" and "thank you." Gotta ask the customer if they "found everything they needed." But that's only the least of it. When you see 13 year olds walking around with ipod or mp3 ear buds, that's one thing. When you see 43 year old women out for a powerwalk during lunch hour wearing the earbuds and listening to their players, that's another thing. And when a 59 year old woman is burning her favorites onto CDs so she can hear the songs "she wants to play" in her car, then you know there are serious issues.

I don't think you can pin these issues solely on the air personalities. It's my observation (which happens to be my job) that real world radio use has taken a turn over the last five to seven years.

Fatigue and burnout have set in, with listeners tired of hearing "Margaritaville" six times in seven days; or "Whole Lotta Love" played three times in five days. These songs test well and they're hits, but over-playing the top 356 well-tesing songs is like giving a child too much chocolate. Eventually he gets sick of it.

Having made this observation, I don't think a move to playing lunar rotation songs has overwhelming benefit, but a sense of moderation and a degree of flexibility and creativity would seem to be in order. Problem is, that's a subjective answer.

It could be that radio's just plain over... and out. Radio has always been "free" to the extent that listeners don't have to pay for it by doing anything more than listening to the commercials. Could be that people find radio only worth the price they're asked to pay to listen to it.

Over the last few weeks, I've observed WHTT's format change. It's curious that even on this board, chock full of radio nuts, the WHTT thread hasn't seen much activity. In years past, radio geeks and even casual fans would have been all over a thread like that because the format change would have been big news.

Maybe WHTT has burned through all its good will. "Ho hum, another format shift on 104," may be the thinking of many listeners. This is a frequency that had one of the strongest brands in America when it was Oldies 104. Strongly identifiable music and air personalities like Dan Neaverth, PJ Foxx, Tom Shannon, Tom Donahue, Craig Michaels, Tommy Shannon, Brian J., Tom Schuh and Ken Palmer.

About five years ago, WHTT did a credible job moving the format to Buffalo's Greatest Hits with Harv Moor, Jim Pastrick, Bill Lacy and some of the holdover Oldies personalities. Even Oldies PD Tom Schuh returned for a while and sounded very good. But the move to Mix seemed to have pushed listeners to their limits and the reacted by choosing another product, whether that was 97 Rock, Jack, WJYE or WYRK.

Now, WHTT seems to be back on track, but it may be a case of too little, too late. It appears they're trying to make it work with a minimum of personalities, probably thinking that personalities don't make the format. Morning man Bill Lacy can be heard voice tracking intros as late as the 1 p.m. hour. Seems they're determined to get it done with the tools they have available and nothing more. Lacy's a solid performer, but he's being spread mighty thinly.

This is nothing new these days, merely emblematic of what's happening in many companies in many markets. Given the dire condition of the companies that own and operate radio stations, it's no surprise; but it sure doesn't help massage and promote the product.

 

[TheBigA]

Fatigue and burnout have set in, with listeners tired of hearing "Margaritaville" six times in seven days; or "Whole Lotta Love" played three times in five days.

Here's the funny part about that: If you were to listen to the music all those people are listening to on their iPods or mp3 players, you'd find out it's a very small playlist of less than a few hundred songs. Now I'm talking about the average person. You might go crazy with a few hundred songs. But it's true. Most people never exceed the memory of their device. They have their "favorites." Their favorite artists, favorite songs, and favorite styles of music they want to hear, and they want to hear them over and over. It goes back to the famous juke-box test done back in the 1950s. And it's still true now. There's a chili place I go to from time to time, and every time I go there, I hear the same 20 songs, even though the jukebox holds thousands.

The issue isn't that they want to hear more songs, or different songs, but they want to hear THEIR favorites when they want to hear them. Not in YOUR rotation. And they don't want ANY commercials or ANY interruptions.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Here's the funny part about that: If you were to listen to the music all those people are listening to on their iPods or mp3 players, you'd find out it's a very small playlist of less than a few hundred songs. Now I'm talking about the average person. You might go crazy with a few hundred songs. But it's true. Most people never exceed the memory of their device.

An old iPod had 4GB of memory. Newer iPods have 30GB+ - as high as 80GB. A typical mp3 recorded at 128K - better quality than a lot of people listen to - takes up about 3MB or storage. That means that a cheap mp3 player, or an old iPod, will store nearly a thousand songs. With all the downloading and trading that's gone on, I don't know of anybody who isn't pushing the limits of their devices. They load 'em up, and put 'em on shuffle.

The idea that people listen to "a very small playlist of less than a few hundred songs" is laughable.

Your "programming geniuses" continue on in the face of declining listening, and declining interest in an ever-blander presentation, blaming your "failure to communicate" on everything except your suspect methodology and/or incorrect interepretation of the results.

Carry on, "A". The chickens are coming home to roost, and that ain't a golden egg that's landing on your shoes.

 

[TheBigA]

The idea that people listen to "a very small playlist of less than a few hundred songs" is laughable.

Believe what you want to believe.

But I still wonder exactly who you think you're talking to when you say stuff like "Your "programming geniuses" continue on in the face of declining listening." To whom is that rant aimed? Because I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[gr8oldies]

You're seriously going to tell me that the average, non-radio geek, non-music geek person has 100000 songs they like all equally? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[SirRoxalot]

You're seriously going to tell me that the average, non-radio geek, non-music geek person has 100000 songs they like all equally? Somehow I doubt it.

Is there ever an answer that pops into your head that DOESN'T take exaggeration to the point of idiocy? NOBODY said anything about "100,000 songs".

What's more common is that people put songs into genre-related folders, and put that folder on shuffle when they're in that mood. What's more important in the way that they use portable players is the "skip" function. A song starts that you're tired of, you skip to the next one. It's probably the most important function of on-line services - the ability to skip to the next song. Ultimately, there's the divorce - the ability to say "I don't like that song - don't play it again".

Radio doesn't have the "skip" or "divorce" functions, so it CAN'T compete solely as a music player. Radio MUST offer more in the way of content. It's that simple.

 

[TheBigA]

What's more common is that people put songs into genre-related folders, and put that folder on shuffle when they're in that mood.

Yep, and radio has the channel changer, where you switch from one station to another. You don't like what's on the country station? Switch to the classic rock. That's in practicality how people use radio today. Not listen to one station 24/7.

Radio MUST offer more in the way of content. It's that simple.

That's fine, and most do. But the fact is that when people tune in to a music station, the thing they want to hear is music. By definition. Not talk. They have talk stations that can do that. If they want news, they have news stations. Ever go to a concert and the performer spends half the show telling stories? It's hard to get a groove on because the pacing of the show is so confused. One minute you're dancing, then you're sitting. Most great performers who want their audiences to have a good time shut up and sing. Sure, if the audience just wanted to hear the songs, they could stay home and listen to their iPod. But the REAL reason they're there is for the social interaction with their friends. The music is just the atmosphere. Same, for the most part, with radio.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Sure, if the audience just wanted to hear the songs, they could stay home and listen to their iPod. But the REAL reason they're there is for the social interaction with their friends. The music is just the atmosphere. Same, for the most part, with radio.

BINGO. And who provides the "atmosphere"? Who do they interact socially with in radio? Who provides companionship? Who provides a human connection that you can't get from your iPod? The AIR PERSONALITY.

Who does it best? The LOCAL AIR PERSONALITY, who's LIVE. Somebody who's experiencing the same world - the same news, the same weather, the same buzz, the same music - at the same TIME. GOOD radio isn't something born in a vacuum, void of context.

And the cost? Typically about the cost of ONE spot per hour. SMART managers understand that decent talent will bring in MORE business than they cost.

 

[TheBigA]

BINGO. And who provides the "atmosphere"? Who do they interact socially with in radio? Who provides companionship? Who provides a human connection that you can't get from your iPod? The AIR PERSONALITY.

You get human connection from your friends. The people you know who are with you. You want companionship? Pick up your phone. You can talk to someone, and they talk back. That's not what radio does.

Yes, back in the old days, when there was nothing to do, there were lots of lonely people in need of companionship. Today, that's only a problem for shut-ins and retired people. The rest get out an enjoy life. And if radio is along for the ride, great. But the idea that people sit at home in a dark room by themselves with their ears glued to the air personality on the radio is not only unrealistic, it's downright sad. If that's what you're in radio for, you were born too late.

If the goal for radio is to provide companionship and human connection, the way to do it is get out of the damned studio! If the goal is social interaction, then the place to be is Twitter and Facebook, where you can actually INTERCONNECT! There's a concept. Interconnection is a two-way street. Top-down radio doesn't interconnect, it lectures. This is not what radio does. It never has. Radio is one-way. When content goes in one direction, the point of origination doesn't matter. Not with current technology.

 

[gr8oldies]

I was one of those lonely kids glued to the radio and I wonder how many who post about needing the DJ to provide connection were in that same boat as tenagers. I'm much, much more social now. I'm thinking the lonely kids now are in a dark room with their video game system, not the radio, and if all the options that are here now were available then, I wonder how much time I'd have spent listening for a scratchy Cousin Brucie from 500 miles away.

 

[Radknowski]

I was one of those lonely kids glued to the radio and I wonder how many who post about needing the DJ to provide connection were in that same boat as tenagers. I'm much, much more social now. I'm thinking the lonely kids now are in a dark room with their video game system, not the radio, and if all the options that are here now were available then, I wonder how much time I'd have spent listening for a scratchy Cousin Brucie from 500 miles away.

Whether it's 1964 or 2009, the most successful music stations know it's all about relating to the station's listeners and making a connection on the air and off. In Buffalo, wall-to-wall jockless formats like Jack may put up some good 12+ numbers, but the stations that are live and local win the 25-54 battles.

Out of town posters may not know the two most successful music intensive FM stations in Buffalo-Western New York are personality driven WYRK (Country) and 97 Rock (Classic Rock.) The AC stations that are most successful are Star 102.5 and WJYE. Oldies 104 WHTT was one of the most successful Oldies stations in America, personality driven and music intensive. It remained successful when it transitioned to Greatest Hits, but took a turn to oblivion about two years ago when it became a gold-based AC as Mix. Recently, WHTT dropped the Mix moniker and reverted to Classic Hits.

As I read it, SirRoxalot and other posters who advocate live, personality driven music intensive formats seem to be advocates of what's known to work in Buffalo, Philadelphia and other larger markets, as well as Classic Hits CBS-FM in Market #1. Nobody's saying blathering jocks are the solution; it's all about well-measured live breaks that have content. From some of the research that's been published lately, listeners seem to want to hear jocks who can relate to the music and the lifestyle of the listener.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Yes, back in the old days, when there was nothing to do, there were lots of lonely people in need of companionship. Today, that's only a problem for shut-ins and retired people. The rest get out an enjoy life. And if radio is along for the ride, great. But the idea that people sit at home in a dark room by themselves with their ears glued to the air personality on the radio is not only unrealistic, it's downright sad. If that's what you're in radio for, you were born too late.

It could be that many of us try to paint a picture of reality with a brush that is too wide to get the detail in there.

It is obvious that those of us who enjoy discussing and debating radio get a little outlandish now and then.

If there is another group of people in this country who try to prove their points by making a picture with a brush that is too wide to paint reality, it is church people. Just as some people focus on the radio stations that seem to be failing, the head-bangers in the church discussion focus on the churches that are failing. They come up with as many "not ready for prime time" pieces of logic as we do in these radio discussion.

BigA, you have always struck me as a pretty well rounded guy with a decent education and a good grasp on life. But on this issue I have to challenge you. You must have not taken as many psychology courses as I did. And maybe you didn't have a psychiatrist son-in-law in and out of the house for 20 years or so. Go study the word "introvert" in enough detail to see the fabric and colors. I run into lonely people every day. I see people who learn to "wear a lonely shirt" every day so they can detatch from the world long enough to concentrate on the demands of their day job. And what is the big issue going in our schools today? Attention Deficit Disorder which is producing a generation of "lonely" or "detatched" people.

I think you are ignoring the reality of how personality and mental conditions drive some people TO radio and drive some people AWAY FROM radio.