What is up with KHNR-AM (50kw Lic-- 10kw CP-- 2kw App)

[BarryATL]

I saw KHNR on the silent station list. I looked it up on the FCC data base.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=10934

KHNR AM 870 kHz DA1 Unlimited B B LIC HONOLULU HI US BL-19820406AA 50.0 kW 10934 SALEM MEDIA OF HAWAII, INC.

KHNR AM 880 kHz ND2 Daytime B B CP HONOLULU HI US BP-20060310AHJ 10.0 kW 10934 SALEM MEDIA OF HAWAII, INC.

KHNR AM 880 kHz ND2 Nighttime B B CP HONOLULU HI US BP-20060310AHJ 10.0 kW 10934 SALEM MEDIA OF HAWAII, INC.

KHNR AM 880 kHz ND2 Daytime B B APP HONOLULU HI US BMP-20070413AGH 2.0 kW 10934 SALEM MEDIA OF HAWAII, INC.

KHNR AM 880 kHz ND2 Nighttime B B APP HONOLULU HI US BMP-20070413AGH 2.0 kW 10934 SALEM MEDIA OF HAWAII, INC.

What is the story that causes a station to go from 50kw unlimited to 10kw construction permit to a 2kw application? I know there is a change of frequency involved. There has to be a good story here.

By the way... I have always been fasinated by the HI stations AM stations because they do not have to worry about the mainland in night time patterns. Do HI AM stations have to take into account any other Pacific islands when configuring night patterns?

 

[BarryATL]

Anybody home in HI?

 

[boiseengineer]

OK, I'll give it a shot.

870 in LA wanted to increase power. Salem Broadcasting swapped & changed frequencies in HI so that could happen.

 

[BarryATL]

The Big 870 WWL is already at 50,000 watts. The have a directional pattern that shoots east and west (so they can cover more of the bayou). The directional pattern is 24/7.

I don't know... taking a station in HI from 50,000 down to 2,000 just doesn't make sense.

 

[jd]

I don't know... taking a station in HI from 50,000 down to 2,000 just doesn't make sense.

As posted earlier the reason KHNR needed to 880 was so co-owned KRLA 870 could increase to 50,000 watts. KHNR had been operating on 870 with 50,000 watts from Molokai, but switching to 880 from there wasn't feasible. In their application to move back to Honolulu, KHNR specified operation on 880 with a power level of 10,000 watts, but that ran into a snag.

Like you said, I was surprised too, when I saw they had reapplied for just 2,000 watts. But here's the reason (from the latest application); a special restriction in their authorization limits the amount of radiation they can deliver toward the FCC Monitoring Station at Waipahu. The permissible level would only allow them to operate with a transmitter power input level of 2,060 watts; to be on the safe side they have taken that figure and rounded it down to 2,000 watts.

Since they're going to be using a tower that's also used by KHCM, KGU and KZOO it's unclear why KHNR had this condition imposed on them, especially since both KHCM and KGU operate with 10,000 watts. I'm not able to compare the KHNR measurements with those of the other stations, so it looks like only the Salem engineers could answer for sure.

Here's the link to the engineering statement in the KHNR application: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=485272

 

[BarryATL]

jd, thanks for the info. Did you mean that KRLA wants to go to 50,000 at night or the daytime power?

I live in Atlanta and up until about a decade ago we had an FCC monitoring station but never had RF restrictions because of the station. The actual location was Powder Springs, GA. It was a huge facility.. more than 100 acres. Anyway, is this station monitoring overseas stuff? I just don't understand the restriction.

 

[jd]

jd, thanks for the info. Did you mean that KRLA wants to go to 50,000 at night or the daytime power?

Sorry, my mistake (I transposed the previous KHNR power). Concurrently with the previous KHNR proposal (the one for 10kW, change from 870 to 880), KRLA 870 Glendale/Los Angeles filed an application proposing a reduction from 50,000 to 20,000 watts daytime, while upping their nighttime power from 3,000 to 37,000 watts. It was proposed as an "interference reduction agreement" between the two stations.

I live in Atlanta and up until about a decade ago we had an FCC monitoring station but never had RF restrictions because of the station. The actual location was Powder Springs, GA. It was a huge facility.. more than 100 acres. Anyway, is this station monitoring overseas stuff? I just don't understand the restriction.

It may have depended on what service the stations were, although I suspect that there might have been a little difference in that location's primary focus. (Powder Springs was also listed as an equipment development facility.) Exceptions might have been made at one time, but coordination before stations apply for facility changes has always been required. When it comes to restricting signal strength toward the monitoring stations, with AM it's pretty much cut and dry. But FM station signals can be engineered so they can actually "overshoot" the monitoring station (e.g., with beam tilt enough of the signal passes over it while what's left passes through the protected zone at acceptable levels).

To answer your question about the "overseas stuff," consider this: all of the monitoring at the stations nationwide is done electronically (read that "automatically"). So while they're keeping tabs on domestic signals, they certainly can monitor overseas signals. With today's sophisticated technology comes the ability to analyze the characteristics and content of those signals. Not trying to be accusatory, but remember the flap about cell phone companies releasing their customer records to the NSA? The FCC declined to investigate it. As for the amount of monitoring in the interest of homeland security and any coordination or sharing of information between the FCC and other federal agencies, I'm not going to connect the dots.

 

[BarryATL]

I remember in college when I was chief for an 1kw station about 10 miles from the Powder Springs facility, we did not have to take them into account when we put the AM on the air. They were more concerned about a CP for a new station north of us that never happened. To this day, that station has a pattern protecting a station that does not exist.

Now, it could be they knew the Powder Springs facility was going away (was known for many years before it happened) so, they did not require us to take them in account.

The Powder Springs monitoring station was tough. They would send stations warnings if they were 10 minutes late changing power or patterns. I remember the engineer in Cartersville, GA complaining about them picking on modulation for his AM up there. Had very old tube type processing that sometimes did not perform like it was supposed to. Anyway, he could be 5db out of specks for peak modulation and would get a warning letter.

I even got a warning letter because the carrier would come on five minutes before sign on time. We would not modulate, but would turn on the carrier to make sure the tubes were warm. We had an old Gates transmitter that liked to be warmed up... so, I had to rewire it so the plates could be warmed without turning on the transmitter carrier.

Nowadays, I don't think anybody is really paying attention anymore.

 

[jd]

I noticed that KHNR recently filed for an extension of their STA to remain silent. Ironically the construction at the new site is complete but since the FCC hasn't approved their application to reduce their power down to 2,000 watts they have no authority to operate the station. They've got another problem, too. They're having difficulty with the commercial power supplier.

Justification for extension the "silent" STA is at the bottom of the application: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...xt=25&appn=101189576&formid=910&fac_num=10934

So for now it looks like they're working on getting power to the site and still waiting to hear from the FCC. If it ain't one thing, it's another, I guess...

 

[Eng.Mike]

I was an engineer with this station when the calls were KAIM. The transmitter site was 50 KW and on the neighbor island of Molokai. The long analog microwave STL shot from Koko Head to Molokai actually worked very good. The problems of keeping this outer island transmitter site location were many. The word was that Molokai Electric had the highest rate for electricity in the whole country! Because of that we generated our own power with a diesel generator for a substantial savings. That was all good until the big generator blew up and the station owners did not want to afford a new generator. The old Harris MW-50 was an expensive transmitter to run and feed tubes to. The station was put back on the grid and the costs went up. Another problem was the cost of travel to maintain the site. To take care of the site we had to hop on a jet to Molokai and then rent a car to drive to the site. A very big problem was that the KAIM signal was poorer in Honolulu than the local Honolulu stations despite it being the most powerful AM in the Hawaiian Islands!

Moving to the Quadraplex site in Honolulu is a smart move. That site has the best ground conductivity around because it's only a stone's throw from the ocean. I was once the engineer for 690 (KQMK) at that site and it's signal was fantastic throughout the island chain with 10 KW. There were some problems with that site though. One was that it was not air conditioned and would draw in humid salty air. Another is that the building is very small and the trap system is very big. I can imagine adding a fourth station would be extremely difficult since the floor space is so limited and the trap system would have to be expanded dramatically. The old Quadraplex back-up generator was long dead as well and the three stations using the tower at that time were separately owned and agreeing to upgrade the site seemed nearly impossible.

I'm a little surprised that there is now a signal level restriction to protect the FCC monitoring station. This had been long true for FM's but I'd not heard anything about new AM stations. Years ago we only had a couple of AMs near the FCC site that were held to higher out of band signal limits than the others. Should the new station only operate with 2 KW at this site; I expect that the signal will still be better for most of the Honolulu listeners compared to the old Molokai signal. I remember that KZOO at 1KW did very well from this site. I hope they do get air conditioning for the transmitter site! It was absolutely terrible without it and it certainly could not stand for any more heat load.

 

[jd]

Don't know about the air conditioning issues, but it looks like KHNR is on the air with 2,000 watts now. I noticed that they got a license to cover a few days ago.