WHAT'S THE TERM FOR DIFFERENT "COLORS" OF T.V SHOWS?

[Stanislav]

Why Monty Python, Benny Hill, etc would use film for outside shots, but stay with videotape for studio stuff: Unions. The unions did not allow for videotaping those shows outside. At least, that's what I've heard.

I used to hear that, too. but awhile back I asked about that on one of the really active U.K. TV boards, and they all said that was a myth. Strictly technical limitations, they claim.

 

[LKellerIII]

I really should be working, but can't resist adding to this cool thread!

...Problem is, the word "film" has entered our language to mean recording images in any fashion -- whether on film (a chemical process), videotape (an electronic process), or on your cell phone camera (a digital process). So, when you say "I'm gonna film you", do you really mean you're going to load celluloid into a camera with gears, then process the film somewhere? I doubt it.

Yes - an interesting side -thread. We old dinosaurs tend to default to the same words and terms we've always used. We still "dial" numbers on our phones, and I've noticed that my wife still asks me to "tape" a TV program (with my DVR). However, I don't think I've ever "filmed" TV programs...not even in those now ancient VCR days.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

HERE'S A QUESTION FOR THE OLD TIMERS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE:
Back in the old days (late 50's early to mid 60's, maybe later) when, say, NBC would show a movie -- had the movie been dubbed to videotape for playback, or was a film chain actually playing in master control in NY or Los Angeles? OR -- when a show like "Bewitched" was played back for the network feed,, obviously a filmed show, was it played back on a film chain--or had the episode been dubbed for videotape?

I can speak for CBS and believe this also held true for ABC and NBC
that in the 1960s, for example, most if not all film programming aired
directly from network film chains in New York and El Lay.

It has been previously discussed on these boards that, for the New York
origination (east coast feed), the NBC and/or ABC film chains may have
physically been across the Hudson in New Jersey and were local looped
(Telco) or microwaved to the net HQ in Manhattan. Something to do
either with union pay rates or the state tax on film stock in NJ vs. NY.

I do know that in CBS' case, the film chains were at the dairy barn on
West 57th Street.

The nets ran a 35mm primary and 16mm backup rolled simultaneously.
Spots were integrated from their own film or tape source. There were
rare occasions where the 35mm primary had a problem (film broke or a
projector problem) and you'd see a switch to a crummy-looking 16mm
reduction print until the primary source could be repaired.

System cues (CTNs, NIs, don't recall what ABC called them) were often
live booth announcer/slide(s).

It's possible that prime time movies may have been transferred to tape
ahead of time, maybe even with the spots, I'm not sure. I also recall
hearing some anecdotal evidence that ABC, around the mid 1960s, was
pre-packaging some daytime film reruns onto tape with spot breaks.

In the mid-1970s, CBS began transferring all shows, with internal spots,
to video tape ahead of time. They would simul-roll two copies of the tape
for air. ABC and NBC probably went to this tape playback format around
the same time.

 

[wbhist]

HERE'S A QUESTION FOR THE OLD TIMERS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE:
Back in the old days (late 50's early to mid 60's, maybe later) when, say, NBC would show a movie -- had the movie been dubbed to videotape for playback, or was a film chain actually playing in master control in NY or Los Angeles? OR -- when a show like "Bewitched" was played back for the network feed,, obviously a filmed show, was it played back on a film chain--or had the episode been dubbed for videotape?

I can speak for CBS and believe this also held true for ABC and NBC that in the 1960s, for example, most if not all film programming aired directly from network film chains in New York and El Lay.

It has been previously discussed on these boards that, for the New York origination (east coast feed), the NBC and/or ABC film chains may have physically been across the Hudson in New Jersey and were local looped (Telco) or microwaved to the net HQ in Manhattan. Something to do either with union pay rates or the state tax on film stock in NJ vs. NY.

I do know that in CBS' case, the film chains were at the dairy barn on West 57th Street.

The nets ran a 35mm primary and 16mm backup rolled simultaneously. Spots were integrated from their own film or tape source. There were rare occasions where the 35mm primary had a problem (film broke or a projector problem) and you'd see a switch to a crummy-looking 16mm reduction print until the primary source could be repaired.

System cues (CTNs, NIs, don't recall what ABC called them) were often live booth announcer/slide(s).

It's possible that prime time movies may have been transferred to tape ahead of time, maybe even with the spots, I'm not sure. I also recall hearing some anecdotal evidence that ABC, around the mid 1960s, was pre-packaging some daytime film reruns onto tape with spot breaks.

In the mid-1970s, CBS began transferring all shows, with internal spots, to video tape ahead of time. They would simul-roll two copies of the tape for air. ABC and NBC probably went to this tape playback format around the same time.

The funny thing was, NBC's production methods for showing movies were perhaps more byzantine - that is, if the origination of film presentation was from NJ as indicated. That's because booth announcing for their movie shows, for many years, was handled out of Burbank, by its stable of staff announcers (Don Stanley, Donald Rickles, Peggy Taylor and Victor Bozeman). This was in contrast to the other two networks whose V/O's were from New York (Allan Berns on The CBS __________ Night Movies, Norm Stevens on The CBS Late Movie, and Joel Crager on The ABC __________ Night Movie). And evidently in the case of NBC, tapes of movie showings were prepared in advance, given that L.A. showings (on KNBC) of their movies were of the same high-quality 50 Hz-15 kHz audio frequency response as out in New York (on WNBC-TV) - this, in the period up to early 1978, when other parts of the country got a "telephon-y," pinched-sounded 50 Hz-5 kHz telco audio, as opposed to after early 1978 when everybody all around the country were able to hear the same high-quality sound everywhere.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

The funny thing was, NBC's production methods for showing movies were perhaps more byzantine...(snip)...because booth announcing for their movie shows, for many years, was handled out of Burbank, by its stable of staff announcers (Don Stanley, Donald Rickles, Peggy Taylor and Victor Bozeman)...(snip)...And evidently in the case of NBC, tapes of movie showings were prepared in advance, given that L.A. showings (on KNBC) of their movies were of the same high-quality 50 Hz-15 kHz audio frequency response as out in New York (on WNBC-TV)

Exactamente, fellow Telco geek!

I was going to mention NBC Saturday Night At The Movies and the announcer
angle in my post, but I got so long-winded about the nuts and bolts...

I too remember Don(ald) Rickles voicing the open/close, etc. while watching
the New York origination way at the end of the 5 kHz (audio) line in Tucson,
live 7-9pm MT.

More recently I came upon a site that mentioned the very NBC announcers
you listed, and that they worked out of Burbank. I think Rickles actually
worked Saturday nights, doing live booth for the left coast feed as well as
KNBC-TV local.

It would have taken some fancy juggling--along with a 15 kHz backhaul audio
line to New York--for him to do live booth for the east coast movie feed from
6-8pm PT, plus his Burbank/KNBC voicing.

This all reinforces the theory that the Saturday movie was put together in
advance on tape at Burbank, with two copies sent to 30 Rock and two others
kept there. As you noted, the sound quality in El Lay local was 15 kHz, so the
show was not recorded from the incoming New York feed but rather originated
from the network tape room in Burbank.

I've mentioned previously somewhere on the board that in a visit to El Lay in
the '70s, I heard 15 kHz network audio on CBS prime time (via then-KNXT),
which indicates that TV City originated most of the shows for the left coast
from its tape and projection rooms (an exception would have been a live show
from NYC or elsewhere that was "master controlled" by the dairy barn instead
of TV City. "And now, right here...right here on our stage...Topo Gigio!" ;D)

The left coast feed system cues (end of show promo or "CTN") used TV City
booth announcers and also differed in that the copy would say "...tomorrow
night at 8 on CBS" rather than "...tomorrow night at 8/7 Central on CBS."

 

[wbhist]

I've mentioned previously somewhere on the board that in a visit to El Lay in the '70s, I heard 15 kHz network audio on CBS prime time (via then-KNXT), which indicates that TV City originated most of the shows for the left coast from its tape and projection rooms (an exception would have been a live show from NYC or elsewhere that was "master controlled" by the dairy barn instead of TV City. "And now, right here...right here on our stage...Topo Gigio!" ;D)

The left coast feed system cues (end of show promo or "CTN") used TV City booth announcers and also differed in that the copy would say "...tomorrow night at 8 on CBS" rather than "...tomorrow night at 8/7 Central on CBS."

Sorry to get off the rails, but I meant to ask: Who in the 1970's would've been on the announcing staff at CBS's TV City? I know that among the "Left Coast" ABC announcers (at "Prospect & Talmadge") included Bill Woodson, Len Beardsley, Mike Laurence and Dean Webber.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Sorry to get off the rails, but I meant to ask: Who in the 1970's would've been on the announcing staff at CBS's TV City?

This has both coasts and is lean on dates, but it may give you some inkling:

http://www.cbsretirees.com/CBS_announcers.htm

Just stumbled on this site from a link to another internal page, but you may
want to start at the home page and search for other "old stuff" within.

 

[nightfly61]

Couldn't they have just had the announcers record(voice track) all the lines ahead of time & have cart players in the studios? Did t.v studios ever use cart machines for audio?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Couldn't they have just had the announcers record(voice track) all the lines ahead of time & have cart players in the studios? Did t.v studios ever use cart machines for audio?

Cart machines were in local stations all over, however at the nets
it was live booth announcers for a lot longer, probably at least
partially due to existing union contracts.

You may remember Don Pardo was the last(?) NBC staff announcer
until he retired around 2004 (60 years), then came back solely
to keep doing SNL as free-lance or similar. Howard Reig's voice
was used on tape (well, maybe in the Audio Vault) for the Nightly
News open until that dumb move where they now use some actor
(he would want me to mention his name* ;D).

*: Thanks to Paul Harvey for the line.

 

[wbhist]

This has both coasts and is lean on dates, but it may give you some inkling:

http://www.cbsretirees.com/CBS_announcers.htm

Just stumbled on this site from a link to another internal page, but you may want to start at the home page and search for other "old stuff" within.

Saw it. A shame there wasn't an equivalent list with the staff announcers for both NBC and ABC on both coasts as there was with CBS - especially since the CBS Retirees site also listed the various NBC and ABC studios as well as CBS's.

 

[nightfly61]

Another classic example- Elvira & other monster movies with goofy hosts that break in vs. the actual monster movie like Godzilla.