WHDH bumping Leno's new show, will air news at 10:00

[jal41]

What would happen to local news without the draw of network programming?

From what I have heard about Ansin...WHDH would probably try 24/7 news. I hear they produce more hours of news than any other station in the country.

 

[LKellerIII]

I believe the networks have been very desirous of direct distribution to the viewing public anyway and the coming day when they will not need local affiliates. The network's biggest obstacle is the loss of the local news lead-in.

What would happen to local news without the draw of network programming?

Back to the KRON 4 example - after they lost the NBC affiliation, KRON tried to re-brand as the Bay Area's News Station - keeping their 6:00 and 11:00 PM newscasts, and adding a newscast at 9:00 PM. The 9:00 newscast did fairly well because it was the only local news on at that hour, but the ratings for 6:00 and 11:00 dropped like a rock - they're rated a lowly #4 against the 3 network O&O newscasts at 11:00, and lowest rated at 6:00 against 5 others at that hour - the network O&Os, the Fox affiliate, and one of the Spanish language stations.

Of course, it didn't help that their huge drop in revenue and huge debt meant they had to drop about 90% of their popular anchors and veteran reporters, most of whom are now on competing stations. Before the loss of NBC, KRON had the highest rated newscast at 11:00, and arguably the best broadcast news organization in the San Francisco Bay Area.

To add insult to injury, they then became a MyTV affiliate, and had to drop the 9:00 newscast. We all know what a great asset MyTV has been ??? ABC7 then filled the breach by producing a 9:00 newscast for another local independent station (KOFY).

It's really pitiful watching what has happened to KRON.

As for becoming a 24/7 news station - forget it. Too expensive on the local level, especially in this economy. When KRON was still affiliated with NBC, they tried exactly that - exclusively for cable and satellite. It was a good effort, but it was a money-loser - even with many hours filled with locally produced interview and human interest programming.

 

[jal41]

Jay Leno has commented on the situation

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/04/07/show_will_go_on_in_the_hub_leno_says/

As for the stalemate...NBC and WHDH have not made any additional comments so far this week.

 

[daryll]

Yes, KRON 4's switch to unaffiliated status was a tremendous flop. Blame it on a weak ownership group and less than competent management at all levels. They were in over their heads. Over time, KRON was gutted to the core on air and behind the scenes. However, Post-Newsweek's WJXT Jacksonville successfully told CBS goodbye on July 15, 2002 and then increased their already monster strong local news presence. Strong syndicated fare was part of the difference, too. They did take some lumps but they had a better plan and didn't lose their news talent. They seem to be doing as well as anyone else right now.

 

[LKellerIII]

Yes, KRON 4's switch to unaffiliated status was a tremendous flop. Blame it on a weak ownership group and less than competent management at all levels. They were in over their heads. Over time, KRON was gutted to the core on air and behind the scenes. However, Post-Newsweek's WJXT Jacksonville successfully told CBS goodbye on July 15, 2002 and then increased their already monster strong local news presence. Strong syndicated fare was part of the difference, too. They did take some lumps but they had a better plan and didn't lose their news talent. They seem to be doing as well as anyone else right now.

Granted, a good part of KRON's problem was the purchase price Young Broadcasting paid - a record shattering $800 million. That price was probably too high for a successful NBC affiliate in market #4, but it was certainly folly for what would become an indy station - there was no way they could service the debt with local news, Dr. Phil, and syndicated judge shows. During their first year - before they lost the affiliation - Young should have realized how deep they were in, and kissed NBC's a** to retain the affiliation. Instead, Young thought they could play tough, and NBC would blink first. Big mistake.

I don't know anything about the WJXT situation, but I'm guessing that overwhelming debt was not a problem. Perhaps this will help WHDH as well if they decide to play tough with NBC.

 

[w9wi]

It's probably also worthy of note that Young held KCAL-9 Los Angeles for awhile - and from what I recall, they lost their shirt on that station as well. (when the FCC started authorizing TV duopolies, they managed to sell KCAL to CBS)

I don't think losing the NBC affiliation is what killed KRON. Borrowing too much money to pay too much money to buy the station is what killed KRON - though losing the NBC affiliation probably didn't help.

 

[LKellerIII]

It's probably also worthy of note that Young held KCAL-9 Los Angeles for awhile - and from what I recall, they lost their shirt on that station as well. (when the FCC started authorizing TV duopolies, they managed to sell KCAL to CBS)

I don't think losing the NBC affiliation is what killed KRON. Borrowing too much money to pay too much money to buy the station is what killed KRON - though losing the NBC affiliation probably didn't help.

I remember the Youngs bragging about how much money they made on the KCAL deal. Perhaps they were trying to mislead the public. They were already catching flack for the KRON deal, and probably needed better public relations.

There is probably little doubt that the $800 million debt would have required some cutbacks if KRON had remained an NBC affiliate, but I would argue that losing the affiliation is what "killed KRON"...and may kill Young Broadcasting as a corporation.

You may remember - NBC tried one last time to buy KRON before buying KNTV (San Jose). Naturally, they didn't offer anywhere near the full $800 million Young had paid. Young turned them down. Young would have been better off taking the "haircut" then, and selling to NBC.

 

[jal41]

KTVK/Phoenix is another network-to-indie success story (lost ABC during the Fox/New World debacle when Scripps made a package deal that included KNXV). KTVK was so successful as an indies that when owner Belo bought the WB station, they didn't even attempt to move the WB to the stronger channel 3 signal.

There was a wrinkle to the KRON story...KNTV owners at the time actually offered to pay cash to carry NBC (reverse compensation) to the tune of almost nine figures. NBC just decided to buy KNTV in the end...probably felt good from the thought of getting cash.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/biz2/0701/gallery.101dumbest_2007/70.html

KRON was in such bad shape...a couple of years ago, they hired an "astronumerologist" to find out what was leading to the stations bad shape. The solution...change the street address. Obviously...it didn't work.

 

[KeithE4]

KTVK/Phoenix is another network-to-indie success story (lost ABC during the Fox/New World debacle when Scripps made a package deal that included KNXV). KTVK was so successful as an indies that when owner Belo bought the WB station, they didn't even attempt to move the WB to the stronger channel 3 signal.

KTVK is a shell of its former self. IMHO, since they decided to be strictly a women's channel, they've gone downhill. I don't think that's a coincidence that when Belo dumped the Diamondbacks & Coyotes when their contracts expired a couple of years ago, KTVK's fortunes took a turn for the worse.

 

[LKellerIII]

KTVK/Phoenix is another network-to-indie success story (lost ABC during the Fox/New World debacle when Scripps made a package deal that included KNXV). KTVK was so successful as an indies that when owner Belo bought the WB station, they didn't even attempt to move the WB to the stronger channel 3 signal.

There was a wrinkle to the KRON story...KNTV owners at the time actually offered to pay cash to carry NBC (reverse compensation) to the tune of almost nine figures. NBC just decided to buy KNTV in the end...probably felt good from the thought of getting cash.

True - all of the networks have been trying to find a way to make affiliates pay to air network programming, rather than the traditional relationship, in which the networks pay the affiliates. NBC wanted to buy KRON, but they were out-bid by Young. So they decided to use KRON as an example to see if they could flip the standard affiliation deal on its ear.

NBC is not blameless in this debacle. But even though Young was negotiating from the weaker position, they thought the network would back down because they wouldn't want their programming on the inferior San Jose signal.

As it turns out, for a year or two after the affiliation switch, many over-the-air viewers in San Francisco and the North Bay couldn't receive NBC programming until NBC moved the transmitter north to San Bruno Mountain. That wasn't so good, but it was temporary. And the purchase of KNTV instead of KRON saved NBC a half-billion dollars.

 

[TroyG]

There's proof positive KTVK & WJXT can survive without network affilliation. In Phoenix, every station out there changed its afilliates-except for KPNX-That city's NBC station. KTVK went from ABC to Being an Indie; KSAZ went from CBS to FOX; KNXV went from FOX to ABC; and KPHO was a longtime Indie when it picked CBS up from FOX. With the strongest syndicated shows, KTVK, Known to the residences of The Phoenix area as 3TV-happens to be one of the city's most popular stations.

 

[Biffstunt]

Back to the original topic, am I crazy or did Boston's NBC affiliate time shift Leno early in his Tonight Show days? I remember going to Fenway as a kid (sorry...yes, in the mid-90s I was a "kid") and after the game going to the hotel where I found the 11 O' Clock News on until midnight, followed by Tonight.

Is there a little - or a lot - of jealousy here on Ansin's part? A Boston native makes it big hosting America's top rated late night talk show and Ansin maybe feels like Leno should do more for the hometown affiliate?

Seems like there has to be some sort of sour grapes on Ansin's part. Compared to Leno, Ansin is small potatoes who seems to like to try to throw his weight around. What would Ansin have done if WHDH was an NBC affiliate in the days of Cheers and Wings? Run them in overnights or take them off the air completely?

 

[KML0224]

If it was Leno's early run of 1992 to 1995, it would've been on WBZ-TV then and not WHDH-TV. They switched networks in January of 1995. That was because of Westinghouse wanting all of their O & O stations as CBS affiliates. Then again, WBZ-TV was famous for many preemptions and delays back then.

 

[BRNout]

If it was Leno's early run of 1992 to 1995, it would've been on WBZ-TV then and not WHDH-TV. They switched networks in January of 1995. That was because of Westinghouse wanting all of their O & O stations as CBS affiliates. Then again, WBZ-TV was famous for many preemptions and delays back then.

It wasn't that simple, IIRC it was part of a deal where Group W stations went to Fox and some were spun off. Fox already owned WFXT and couldn't buy WBZ so CBS purchased them. The same sort of arrangement happened in Philadelphia with KYW which is how they ended up with CBS rather than NBC. I'm foggier on the intricacies of that deal because I know NBC ended up with WCAU as an O & O and can't recall how that went down.

But, it was all part of that big affiliate deal in 1995 where Fox got former Group W (Westinghouse) stations in New York, Washington, and Los Angeles. There was also the New World deal at about the same time through which Fox garnered top-notch affiliates in places like Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta and Dallas and (in some cases) big 3 affiliations ended up on some really weak also-rans. Seems like CBS got the worst end of that deal.

 

[fybush]

Your memory ill-serves you on this one.

There was never a Fox/Group W deal. What there was, in early 1994, was a deal between Group W and CBS in which all of Group W's TV stations would become CBS affiliates, and in which CBS and Group W would partner to buy additional stations jointly.

In Philadelphia, where CBS and W both owned stations, Group W's KYW became the CBS affiliate and CBS' WCAU was traded to NBC for its stations in Salt Lake (KUTV) and Denver (KCNC) and for a swap of facilities in Miami that moved CBS' WCIX 6 to 4 (as WFOR) and NBC's WTVJ 4 to 6 (with a weaker signal).

The joint CBS/Group W venture never came to pass, because before it was to have taken effect in January 1995, Westinghouse bought CBS outright.

 

[BRNout]

Your memory ill-serves you on this one.

There was never a Fox/Group W deal. What there was, in early 1994, was a deal between Group W and CBS in which all of Group W's TV stations would become CBS affiliates, and in which CBS and Group W would partner to buy additional stations jointly.

In Philadelphia, where CBS and W both owned stations, Group W's KYW became the CBS affiliate and CBS' WCAU was traded to NBC for its stations in Salt Lake (KUTV) and Denver (KCNC) and for a swap of facilities in Miami that moved CBS' WCIX 6 to 4 (as WFOR) and NBC's WTVJ 4 to 6 (with a weaker signal).

The joint CBS/Group W venture never came to pass, because before it was to have taken effect in January 1995, Westinghouse bought CBS outright.

Thanks for the clarification. Honestly, I spaced this one - it was a long time ago. But, how was it that Fox ended up owning the former Group W stations in NY, LA and Washington? Wasn't that at around the same time?

I just remember that there was a lot of posturing and deal making at the same time as Fox managed to obtain the rights to the NFC games that were formerly held by CBS.

 

[DToTheJ]

Thanks for the clarification... But, how was it that Fox ended up owning the former Group W stations in NY, LA and Washington?

They got them from Metromedia.

 

[DToTheJ]

There was never a Fox/Group W deal. What there was, in early 1994, was a deal between Group W and CBS in which all of Group W's TV stations would become CBS affiliates, and in which CBS and Group W would partner to buy additional stations jointly.

In Philadelphia, where CBS and W both owned stations, Group W's KYW became the CBS affiliate and CBS' WCAU was traded to NBC for its stations in Salt Lake (KUTV) and Denver (KCNC) and for a swap of facilities in Miami that moved CBS' WCIX 6 to 4 (as WFOR) and NBC's WTVJ 4 to 6 (with a weaker signal).

The joint CBS/Group W venture never came to pass, because before it was to have taken effect in January 1995, Westinghouse bought CBS outright.

Yeah, what Scott said.

 

[fybush]

Thanks for the clarification... But, how was it that Fox ended up owning the former Group W stations in NY, LA and Washington?

They got them from Metromedia.

There's still a misunderstanding here. Group W never owned WNEW-TV/WNYW, KTTV or WTTG. The NY/Washington stations went from DuMont to Metropolitan TV Stations to Metromedia, while the LA station came to Metromedia separately. Those 3, along with WFLD in Chicago, became the core of Fox when Metromedia sold them to Murdoch in 1985.

I think the confusion here comes from what happened to Metromedia's radio stations - as the Kluge family was exiting broadcasting, it sold its FM outlets to a company called Legacy Broadcasting, which was eventually purchased by Group W when the company figured out, in the late 80s, that FM might amount to something after all. That's how Group W ended up with WNEW-FM in New York, KTWV in LA, WMMR in Chicago, etc.

Believe it or not, Group W never sold a VHF TV station before the CBS deal. Westinghouse put WBZ-TV on the air in 1948 and bought KPIX San Francisco, KYW-TV (formerly WPTZ) in Philadelphia, KDKA-TV (ex-WDTV) in Pittsburgh and WJZ (ex-WAAM) in Baltimore during the 1950s.

That same group of stations remained in place unchanged until 1995, and those stations are all still part of the CBS O&O group that succeeded Group W.

The only Group W TV stations to be sold off were UHFs - the CP for WIND-TV 20 Chicago, which was donated to WTTW in the fifties, and later on WPCQ 36 in Charlotte in the eighties.

The only Fox-Group W connection I can see here is that WDTV/KDKA-TV was purchased from DuMont, and when Group W bought it in 1955, it was a sister station to WABD New York and WTTG Washington, which much later went to Metromedia and then to Fox.

 

[BRNout]

Yep, that's exactly how I got mixed up. I was thinking of that old radio relationship - but going back far enough there was little relationship between Group W and Metromedia in television. In reading Scott's fine recollection of those deals, it's all coming back to me.

It happens to the best of us, I guess, and in this case it's a little embarrassing because I should know better!