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WHICH CANADIAN STATION WILL BE THE 2ND. TO GO HD RADIO?
- Thread starter blackgold
- Start date
The CRTC authorized some stations near the border to play less Canadian content to compete with the US stations that don't play any Canadian content (that isn't a hit on the US charts). The reasoning is that the CanCon requirement puts the Canadian stations at a competitive disadvantage, and hence, Canadian advertisers would take their business out of the country and advertise on the US stations that get better ratings.
HD Radio hasn't been authorized in Canada because it hasn't proven to be a competitive advantage yet. US stations in HD near the border can drown out Canadian adjacents in Canada, but the Canadians can't retaliate by blasting their own IBUZ. HD Radio is more like an arms race.
HD Radio hasn't been authorized in Canada because it hasn't proven to be a competitive advantage yet. US stations in HD near the border can drown out Canadian adjacents in Canada, but the Canadians can't retaliate by blasting their own IBUZ. HD Radio is more like an arms race.
Boy, that was never the case at CKLW. The CRTC seemed to take perverse pleasure in hobbling The Big 8 with CanCon and absurd local news commitments. That's why CKLW had outrageous, howl-inducing "20/20 News," which was actually more entertaining than the music segments. People would listen for the news because they couldn't believe it. They never knew what the station was going to say next.
Canadian regulators weren't worried with preserving CK's competitiveness. In fact they seemed to resent the station's huge American audience. And that's what CKLW has retreated into today - a role as a provincial local-sounding AM station instead of being a pop music powerhouse.
BTW, more appropriate to the Detroit board, but congrats to my colleague Rosalie Tromblay, music director of The Big 8 back in the day. I had XM-Sirius "60s on 6" on at the gym today and Flash Phelps was talking about a tribute for Rosalie tonight or sometime soon.
Canadian regulators weren't worried with preserving CK's competitiveness. In fact they seemed to resent the station's huge American audience. And that's what CKLW has retreated into today - a role as a provincial local-sounding AM station instead of being a pop music powerhouse.
BTW, more appropriate to the Detroit board, but congrats to my colleague Rosalie Tromblay, music director of The Big 8 back in the day. I had XM-Sirius "60s on 6" on at the gym today and Flash Phelps was talking about a tribute for Rosalie tonight or sometime soon.
For more than one book, CKLW was #1 in Windsor, Detroit, Toledo, Fort Wayne and Cleveland books! Hell yes they had a USA audience and the CTRC put the screws to them, even with the 'lower' number - HOWEVER, on the flip side, I did come to enjoy a lot of Canadian artists/songwriter/producers as a result of that. Heard of Frank Mills long before "Music Box Dancer", as well as cross overs from The Poppy Family, Bill Amesbury, Sweet, and Nicollette Larson - as her hit was WRITTEN by Canuk Neil Young; so lots of Neil Young, Gordon Lightfoot, Bryan Adams and Foo Fighters.
Anyhow, back to the topic;
CKLW in Harris, and then Motorola C-Quam AM stereo was unbelievably great sounding during day pattern 100 miles away - better than FM with frequency response up to 20KHz!! I wish I had more airchecks to prove it, but a Sony SRF-A100 radio make the Big 8 the best sounding AM radio station in North America. It's too bad this 50KW powerhouse is rated LOWER than the 500W music station (CKWW-AM) in the Detroit book!
People still want MUSIC on AM, and the puny 500W CKWW is proof of that.
Putting HD on CKLW however would be a waste as they are only a local talk station now, but adding music, whether Top 40 Gold, or even 'standards' would be a reason to restore CKLW to music and HD, but not for talk. The RETURN of the BIG 8 would be welcome!
Anyhow, back to the topic;
CKLW in Harris, and then Motorola C-Quam AM stereo was unbelievably great sounding during day pattern 100 miles away - better than FM with frequency response up to 20KHz!! I wish I had more airchecks to prove it, but a Sony SRF-A100 radio make the Big 8 the best sounding AM radio station in North America. It's too bad this 50KW powerhouse is rated LOWER than the 500W music station (CKWW-AM) in the Detroit book!
People still want MUSIC on AM, and the puny 500W CKWW is proof of that.
Putting HD on CKLW however would be a waste as they are only a local talk station now, but adding music, whether Top 40 Gold, or even 'standards' would be a reason to restore CKLW to music and HD, but not for talk. The RETURN of the BIG 8 would be welcome!
JohnnyElectron said:
I looked up the BBM numbers for Windsor... in the Spring 2011 book, CKLW has a 20.0-share, up from 17.9 last fall. So apparently their local talk shows are very popular in Windsor, if not Detroit. CKWW has a 2.7 in Windsor. Unlike the Detroit book which lists Canadian stations, the BBM website numbers don't include any US stations.
JohnnyElectron said:
Even though its before my time, I can't get over how great oldies sound on AM. Even though I'm not a huge fan of them, theres something about older music plus AM radio that take you back in time. It feels smooth on the ears, less fatiguing than listening to something digitally. There are a few daytimers that play music in upstate NY, but 740 from Toronto sounds the best. Its great no adjacent stations run IBOC. About the only issue is adjacent noise from CKAC 730 skywave but a little adjacent noise in the background adds to the whole AM experience.
spunker88 said:
A lot of the music we now call "oldies" was mixed in the recording studio to sound good on AM radios. That was the state of the art listening medium, so if you wanted your record to sell, you made sure it sounded good on an AM radio.
It wasn't uncommon for a recording studio to have a low power AM transmitter so the final mix could be checked out on car radios in the parking lot.
Almost every studio worth it's salt not only had some very large and accurate studio monitor speakers, but also had some very small speakers that simulated the sound of your average car radio. Auratones were the accepted standard in the 1970's, but every studio had its particular favorites.
It wasn't an accident that music sounded good on AM radio. It was engineered that way.
I also remember that the same song - played on a 45 vs played as an album cut - would sound different on the same equipment. There were lots of them, but "Journey to the center of the mind" is one I remember distinctly. I was reading an article in Mix magazine recently where that is still done for some releases - where the digital downloads are engineered differently than the CD's.Chuck said:
Dave B.
JohnnyElectron said:
As a follower of the Cleveland market, I have never found any evidence that the Big 8 got any really significant numbers, even at night. Yes, it showed, but not at significant levels... because the day signal is marginal except in the lakeside suburbs to the west. Elsewhere, it was subject to noise in cars even then and definitely not an at-home choice. Cleveland had a pretty good Top 40 in WIXY, which I listened to a lot on my regular visits to Cleveland when CKLW was a Top 40 and there was no reason to not listen to the local signal.
DaveBayArea said:
Absolutely true! As a radio geek, I truly enjoy checking out old airchecks of classic top 40 radio and one of the things that strikes you is how good the music sounds. The other hits you if you hear a song that you really like and elect to download to your computer/ipod (which I've done). The "digital" version offers beautiful stereo separation (as that was really the 'golden age of stereo'), yet it doesn't sound the same as it did on the radio. The "flatness" of AM actually made the music sound bolder.
Also, a lot of the music from the 60s and early 70s utilized some reverb (in addition to that which the station may have offered). This added to the illusion of big, wide and deep sound. As a little kid listening to WABC, I sure recall how it sounded to me like they were in an echo chamber - and that sounded cool back then. Many singles had the same effects at times, again sounding better on AM than they do in a stereo system.
As an aside to the Old Gringo, I haven't forgotten about our little discussion about AM radio. Just been busy but I'll be back....
Back OT.....
By the way, I lost track: who is the FIRST Canadian station to go HD radio? Did anyone answer that one?
Chuck said:
I grew up on 50's RnR on AM radio but I clearly remember when I got my first FM (sometime in the mid-60's) how much fuller the music sounded. Several records needed 15-30 seconds of intense listening to determine just what song was being played.
"No static at all.......eff....emmmmmmmmmmmm". ;D
BRNout said:
Apparently an FM on Manitoulin island in Lake Huron where the year-round population is only a few thousand put "HD" on their website because their transmitter had some kind of HD compatible logo on it...
The case of the Manitoulin station remains a mystery, but circumstances strongly suggest their "HD" claims were more a product of misunderstanding than anything else. Despite numerous posts here and other public curiosity there is no evidence thus far they ever transmitted any HD signals. I (for one) remain unaware of any Canadian authorizations to use HD Radio other than a few isolated experiments (which failed to produce even interim authorizations.)
The Great Sound Of Classic AM Radio, several examples of which I have posted including CKLW, was the product of numerous factors. On-air reverb was certainly one, and there were a lot of imaginative sources back in the day which ranged from nice EMT/Gotham and Fairchild "plate" units at big stations to consumer-rung Fisher Space-X-Panders and guitar reverbs.
One station I worked at had a Fisher spring reverb under the Gatesway console desk. You had to be careful not to kick the spring chassis while talking, or it would BOING!!! on the air. Another station mounted a big speaker at the bottom of an unused stairwell and a microphone at the top.
But the big factor was processing. Today, recording engineers looking for the "Big Sound" of 60s AM radio have been quietly snapping up so many dusty and disused tube processors from stations, suprlus sellers and hamfests, that a company is now reproducing the fabled Gates Sta-Level:
http://www.retroinstruments.com/sta-level.html
The Great Sound Of Classic AM Radio, several examples of which I have posted including CKLW, was the product of numerous factors. On-air reverb was certainly one, and there were a lot of imaginative sources back in the day which ranged from nice EMT/Gotham and Fairchild "plate" units at big stations to consumer-rung Fisher Space-X-Panders and guitar reverbs.
One station I worked at had a Fisher spring reverb under the Gatesway console desk. You had to be careful not to kick the spring chassis while talking, or it would BOING!!! on the air. Another station mounted a big speaker at the bottom of an unused stairwell and a microphone at the top.
But the big factor was processing. Today, recording engineers looking for the "Big Sound" of 60s AM radio have been quietly snapping up so many dusty and disused tube processors from stations, suprlus sellers and hamfests, that a company is now reproducing the fabled Gates Sta-Level:
http://www.retroinstruments.com/sta-level.html
Savage, in case you haven't seen it, here's an account of the event honoring Rosalie from Michiguide.com:
Rosalie Trombley's Very Special Night
By
Mike Austerman
on June 21, 2011 8:51 PM
column written by Art Vuolo, Jr.
Last Tuesday evening (June 14, 2011) was reserved for "the woman with the golden ear" known as Rosalie Trombley. She was the longtime music director of CKLW (The Big 8) at a time when that radio station was a driving force in pop music top 40 radio! It was back when its massive 50,000 watt signal blanketed 28 states and 4 provinces at night. If CKLW played your record....it became a hit...period. To get it on the air, however, it had to impress Rosalie, and that was no easy task.
When I was in high school I remember a guy in my gym class, who was usually out jamming with his band, by the name of Bob Seger. He was a year ahead of me at Ann Arbor High School (now known as Pioneer). He wanted his music on CKLW so badly that he actually wrote a song called "Rosalie" in tribute to her, but she swore it would never be played on The Big 8. However, a lot of Seger music DID make it on the air and he has acknowledged openly that she was instrumental in making him a star!
Bob Seger was not alone. She also helped a few other notable pop and rock acts like: Alice Cooper, Elton John, Tony Orlando, Gordon Lightfoot, and groups like: Chicago, Blood Sweat & Tears, Earth Wind & Fire, Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes and many more. She had the power and the tower.
The tribute, on Flag Day, was spectacular. It was also the birthday of Rosalie's long-time friend and former CKLW traffic reporter Jo-Jo Shutty-MacGregor. Jo-Jo is still doing traffic on stations like WWJ and WOMC via Metro Traffic Services here in Detroit.
The event drew a crowd estimated at between 250 and 300 people at the Centre for the Arts at St. Clair College in Windsor, Ontario. The primary MC was Charlie O'Brien, morning host on oldies CKWW-AM 580. Later the baton was passed to Tony Orlando! Some of the notables on hand in person were: Pat Holiday and Brother Bill Gable, newsman Keith Radford plus Bob Seger's manager Punch Andrews, Jerry Adams of Harmony House, record promotion executives Craig Lambert and Denise George and legendary funk brother of the Motown era Dennis Coffey!
There were also countless tributes on audio and videotape from those unable to be there in person like: Paul Anka, Robert Lamm of Chicago, Alice Cooper, Smokey Robinson, Randy Bachman and a heartfelt appearance by Burton Cummings of the Guess Who. Several radio personalities spoke via tape like: Pat St. John, Ted "the Bear" Richards, Joe Donovan, and Robin Seymour.
The food was like that of a five-star restaurant in both taste quality and presentation. The dessert even featured cake with musical notes, a hockey stick and chocolate waver gold record with her name on it! It was a first class effort on every level. If you missed it, it was all captured on videotape by yours truly. E-mail me if you want to see it. Some highlights may be soon found on YouTube, but I was honored to get it all.
Without a doubt, Tony Orlando is perhaps among the very nicest entertainers that I have ever met, and I've met quite a few. He was warm, personable and hung around long after the event was over talking with fans, posing for photos and signing autographs. A real class act. The entire committee responsible for Rosalie's big night should be proud of a job well done. My only disappointment was that Bob Seger, who was rumored to show up, did not. Also, Windsor needs some larger signs directing we Michigander's back to Detroit via the tunnel. I was also amazed that my satellite radio played through the entire length of the underwater tube! I guess WJR isn't the only station available in the tunnel.
Now, if only Charlie O'Brien could talk Bell Media Radio into flipping the news-talk on AM 800 CKLW over to 580 AM CKWW and put the oldies on the big 50,000 watt signal, all will be right with the world. The Big 8 could be big again, and dare I say it might even once again show up in the Toledo, and Cleveland ratings, and I know someone who has a good ear for picking the right oldies too!
________________
To stay on topic . . . Unlike the Mexicans, I think the Canadians have had their fill of digital radio for a while, what with their own DAB debacle plus the interference that we throw at them from this side of the border . . . CKLW just loves WGY, and CKWW thinks the world of WRDT.
Rosalie Trombley's Very Special Night
By
Mike Austerman
on June 21, 2011 8:51 PM
column written by Art Vuolo, Jr.
Last Tuesday evening (June 14, 2011) was reserved for "the woman with the golden ear" known as Rosalie Trombley. She was the longtime music director of CKLW (The Big 8) at a time when that radio station was a driving force in pop music top 40 radio! It was back when its massive 50,000 watt signal blanketed 28 states and 4 provinces at night. If CKLW played your record....it became a hit...period. To get it on the air, however, it had to impress Rosalie, and that was no easy task.
When I was in high school I remember a guy in my gym class, who was usually out jamming with his band, by the name of Bob Seger. He was a year ahead of me at Ann Arbor High School (now known as Pioneer). He wanted his music on CKLW so badly that he actually wrote a song called "Rosalie" in tribute to her, but she swore it would never be played on The Big 8. However, a lot of Seger music DID make it on the air and he has acknowledged openly that she was instrumental in making him a star!
Bob Seger was not alone. She also helped a few other notable pop and rock acts like: Alice Cooper, Elton John, Tony Orlando, Gordon Lightfoot, and groups like: Chicago, Blood Sweat & Tears, Earth Wind & Fire, Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes and many more. She had the power and the tower.
The tribute, on Flag Day, was spectacular. It was also the birthday of Rosalie's long-time friend and former CKLW traffic reporter Jo-Jo Shutty-MacGregor. Jo-Jo is still doing traffic on stations like WWJ and WOMC via Metro Traffic Services here in Detroit.
The event drew a crowd estimated at between 250 and 300 people at the Centre for the Arts at St. Clair College in Windsor, Ontario. The primary MC was Charlie O'Brien, morning host on oldies CKWW-AM 580. Later the baton was passed to Tony Orlando! Some of the notables on hand in person were: Pat Holiday and Brother Bill Gable, newsman Keith Radford plus Bob Seger's manager Punch Andrews, Jerry Adams of Harmony House, record promotion executives Craig Lambert and Denise George and legendary funk brother of the Motown era Dennis Coffey!
There were also countless tributes on audio and videotape from those unable to be there in person like: Paul Anka, Robert Lamm of Chicago, Alice Cooper, Smokey Robinson, Randy Bachman and a heartfelt appearance by Burton Cummings of the Guess Who. Several radio personalities spoke via tape like: Pat St. John, Ted "the Bear" Richards, Joe Donovan, and Robin Seymour.
The food was like that of a five-star restaurant in both taste quality and presentation. The dessert even featured cake with musical notes, a hockey stick and chocolate waver gold record with her name on it! It was a first class effort on every level. If you missed it, it was all captured on videotape by yours truly. E-mail me if you want to see it. Some highlights may be soon found on YouTube, but I was honored to get it all.
Without a doubt, Tony Orlando is perhaps among the very nicest entertainers that I have ever met, and I've met quite a few. He was warm, personable and hung around long after the event was over talking with fans, posing for photos and signing autographs. A real class act. The entire committee responsible for Rosalie's big night should be proud of a job well done. My only disappointment was that Bob Seger, who was rumored to show up, did not. Also, Windsor needs some larger signs directing we Michigander's back to Detroit via the tunnel. I was also amazed that my satellite radio played through the entire length of the underwater tube! I guess WJR isn't the only station available in the tunnel.
Now, if only Charlie O'Brien could talk Bell Media Radio into flipping the news-talk on AM 800 CKLW over to 580 AM CKWW and put the oldies on the big 50,000 watt signal, all will be right with the world. The Big 8 could be big again, and dare I say it might even once again show up in the Toledo, and Cleveland ratings, and I know someone who has a good ear for picking the right oldies too!
________________
To stay on topic . . . Unlike the Mexicans, I think the Canadians have had their fill of digital radio for a while, what with their own DAB debacle plus the interference that we throw at them from this side of the border . . . CKLW just loves WGY, and CKWW thinks the world of WRDT.
CKLW in AM stereo was totally awesome here in Northern Ohio! FM stereo quality and then some on a Sony SRF-A100 radio!
I agree with the 580 / 800KHz swap, and more importantly, when I was in Monroe (3x this past week) CKWW 580 is totally smoked by the buzz from Crawford's 560 WRDT. This is international BS, and WRDT should have offset sidebands so 580 is receivable!
wrote.....CKLW just loves WGY, and CKWW thinks the world of WRDT
I agree with the 580 / 800KHz swap, and more importantly, when I was in Monroe (3x this past week) CKWW 580 is totally smoked by the buzz from Crawford's 560 WRDT. This is international BS, and WRDT should have offset sidebands so 580 is receivable!
wrote.....CKLW just loves WGY, and CKWW thinks the world of WRDT
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