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Which Was The Best Indie TV Station In The 60's & 70's?
- Thread starter Madmansam
- Start date
My vote would be a tie between KTLA and KTTV. The other two were generally pretty pathetic. Both 5 and 11 had real news departments - KTLA in particular was generally first on the scene (in the 50s and 60s) with live-breaking news, even beating the network O&O stations. That wasn't so true by the 70s, when the O&Os stepped up their game with live news. KTLA and KTTV even fought over the infamous anchor George Putnam, who would move between the two stations, depending on which was the highest bidder. It's how he got to be the highest paid anchor in America, reportedly making more than even Walter Cronkite.
In the mid and late 60s, KTTV produced a lot of local talk shows - some very good, like Louis Lomax and Les Crane, and some in the cheesy realm, like Joe Pyne.
KTLA was a leader in local sports, including Boxing from the Olympic, and (back to the cheesy realm) Roller Derby and Wrestling, both hosted by the 'great' Dick Lane.
KCOP and KHJ-TV had no news departments, and were generally stuck with the worst off-network reruns. KCOP's movies were laughably bad Grade "C" films from the 40s. KHJ-TV had better films, but during the 50s and 60s would run the same film 5 nights in a row (Million Dollar Movie).
In the mid and late 60s, KTTV produced a lot of local talk shows - some very good, like Louis Lomax and Les Crane, and some in the cheesy realm, like Joe Pyne.
KTLA was a leader in local sports, including Boxing from the Olympic, and (back to the cheesy realm) Roller Derby and Wrestling, both hosted by the 'great' Dick Lane.
KCOP and KHJ-TV had no news departments, and were generally stuck with the worst off-network reruns. KCOP's movies were laughably bad Grade "C" films from the 40s. KHJ-TV had better films, but during the 50s and 60s would run the same film 5 nights in a row (Million Dollar Movie).
Madmansam said:
I was going to pick one, but on second thought, each had its own strengths:
KTLA-(outstanding news coverage), KHJ-(public affairs and Larry Vincent as horror movie host "Seymour"), KTTV (part of the Metromedia syndicated "network" with David Frost, Wonderama and as good an off network re-run schedule as KTLA), KCOP (Bill Burrud's nature and adventure shows and Hal Linker's travel programming --he was kind of the 60s version of Rick Steves).
Lkeller said:
I guess it helped for Putnam, since 5 and 11 were located across the street from each other for nearly 40 years ;D
M
Marckd
Guest
In the 1970's KTTV 11 and 13 KCOP both had the most cartoons and classic sitcoms. Both had cartoons from about 7 to 9 AM and from 3 to 5 PM weekdays on the average. KTTV had far stronger shows but KCOP was not exactly an also-ran either - just not as strong as KTTV. KCOP was similar to WPIX 11 New York (though not ever sister stations) while 11 KTTV and 5 WNEW-TV were and still are sister stations and both had very similar formats.
KTLA 5 and KHJ 9 had similar formats as well. Both stations stayed away from large amounts of classic sitcoms and both focused on locally produced talk shows, sports, off network drama shows, feature films, and game shows. KTLA also had westerns mixed into their schedule. KTLA was considered stronger than KHJ mostly because of their better selection of sports and better local productions. Both had moderate amounts of religios shows. KHJ had PTL and KTLA had 700 Club. There was also a weaker UHF independent owned by Kaiser from about 1970 to 1977 on daily from 2 PM to Midnight with older less desirable cartoons, a couple sitcoms, and Three Stooges and Little Rascals shorts. KAiser had stronger indies in other markets and when selling the company in 1977 KBSC 52 was excluded and sold to an owner that took teh station Subscription TV and minority programming. KBSC's shows were integrated into KTLA's weekend schedule.
KTLA 5 and KHJ 9 had similar formats as well. Both stations stayed away from large amounts of classic sitcoms and both focused on locally produced talk shows, sports, off network drama shows, feature films, and game shows. KTLA also had westerns mixed into their schedule. KTLA was considered stronger than KHJ mostly because of their better selection of sports and better local productions. Both had moderate amounts of religios shows. KHJ had PTL and KTLA had 700 Club. There was also a weaker UHF independent owned by Kaiser from about 1970 to 1977 on daily from 2 PM to Midnight with older less desirable cartoons, a couple sitcoms, and Three Stooges and Little Rascals shorts. KAiser had stronger indies in other markets and when selling the company in 1977 KBSC 52 was excluded and sold to an owner that took teh station Subscription TV and minority programming. KBSC's shows were integrated into KTLA's weekend schedule.
S
searadiofreak
Guest
I would put KTLA first, due to their strong news presence during this era, and their other local programming. They also had the coolest logo!
George Putnam is my hero, regardless of what station he was on.
KHJ and KCOP were probably the weakest of the four, but in LA, just to compete is an accomplishment, and they did. This may not be popular, but I believe KHJ (KCAL) was strengthened with its alignment with KCBS, and in so doing, keeping their prime-time news block coverage that started in the late 80's.
George Putnam is my hero, regardless of what station he was on.
KHJ and KCOP were probably the weakest of the four, but in LA, just to compete is an accomplishment, and they did. This may not be popular, but I believe KHJ (KCAL) was strengthened with its alignment with KCBS, and in so doing, keeping their prime-time news block coverage that started in the late 80's.
...Frost was syndicated by Westinghouse, not Metromedia...ercjncpr said:
Absolutely KTLA. An innovator. First live helicopter, making coverage of the Bel Air Fire and Baldwin Hill dam break stand head and shoulders above any other station. Ditto the Watts riots.
KTTV second. Very nearly as good as KTLA, but they didn't have Gene Autry saying "whatever it takes". Bonus points for "Thriller" and "Chiller".
Third goes to KHJ for shows like Boss City, 9th Street West, Groovy, The Robert W. Morgan Show, The Real Don Steele Show, and Fright Night with Seymour. Otherwise, Channel 9 was pretty grim.
Which leaves KCOP last. Bonus points for Lloyd Thaxton and Bill Burrud, but still...KCOP wasn't even competitive with KHJ-TV, much less KTTV or KTLA.
KTTV second. Very nearly as good as KTLA, but they didn't have Gene Autry saying "whatever it takes". Bonus points for "Thriller" and "Chiller".
Third goes to KHJ for shows like Boss City, 9th Street West, Groovy, The Robert W. Morgan Show, The Real Don Steele Show, and Fright Night with Seymour. Otherwise, Channel 9 was pretty grim.
Which leaves KCOP last. Bonus points for Lloyd Thaxton and Bill Burrud, but still...KCOP wasn't even competitive with KHJ-TV, much less KTTV or KTLA.
(deleting unintentional duplicate post)
...I'm guessing nobody even noticed KBSC/52 ;-) ...
S
searadiofreak
Guest
M
Marckd
Guest
For Kids programming KCOP was number 2. My guess though is if KCOP had gone educational, that either KTLA or KHJ would have had more kids programs - I still think the stations ranked KTTV first, KTLA second, KCOP third, KHJ fourth, and KBSC fifth. KBSC was the failure in the market - problem was that 4 commercial indies were on VHF and only a few decent shows those stations passed onw ere available. Kaiser managed to do far better in other markets.
michael hagerty said:
Though KHJ-TV was generally grim, as Michael indicates - some kind of honorable mention should go to Channel 9 for their Tempo programs in the mid and late 60s. They were live talk shows that featured interviews and took callers. It was a tumultuous time (Vietnam War, hippies, etc) and the shows provided a good forum...very low budget, but well produced. Tempo originally aired about 3 hours a day - Tempo I morning, Tempo II early afternoon, Tempo III night - then cut back to only the afternoon show.
Notable hosts on the show included Regis Philbin, actress JoAnne Pflug (Catch 22, M*A*S*H), Stan Bohrman (later a news anchor), Maria Cole (wife of Nat "King" and mother of Natalie), and Robert K. Dornan, who later became the right-wing Congressman known as "B-1 Bob." The verbal battles between Dornan and the liberal Bohrman were especially entertaining.
In the 60s, KCOP's low quality late night movies featured laughably bad commercials for local LA businesses - they were basically slide-shows accompanied by a syrupy announcer. I still recall one for Ramone's Beauty Salon in downtown Carson. They were so bad that they were actually satirized by The Credibility Gap on KRLA. Equally bad was KCOP's Dialilng for Dollars show - no movie - just the host talking to the camera for an hour, and dialing phone calls which were rarely answered...even in those days, when house wives were typically home. And when they did answer, they usually weren't watching the show. Truly sad and pathetic TV.
Lkeller said:
Wow I had no idea Fox News guy Bob Dornan got his start on KHJ. I knew Regis was on KABC for AMLA before being sent to NYC to do a show now called Regis and Kelly. I heard rumors that Spencer Cristian of KGO was the guy that Regis replaced on WABC. I heard that Spencer did an NY version of 7live then called AM NY before he was sent to GMA until 1998 when ABC sent him to SF to replace Giddings.
I have always wondered about KBSC-52? I have heard that they carried The Three Stooges,The Abbott & Costello TV Show, The Little Rascals, Speed Racer & Kimba, a Lou Gordon talk show and ever a horror hosted movie show called "The Ghoul". I don't know what horror movies he showed since the other 4 VHF indies had the rights to nearly every horror film. In fact, does anyone have any old TV Guides so they can post a weeks schedule of what was shown on KBSC when it was owned by Kaiser?Ultimajock said:
probably because there were fewer Independent competitors in their other markets especially on VHF. Kaiser survived in San Francisco because they cornered the kid-vid market by grabbing up the rights to a lot of Cartoons. KTVU ruled mornings (since KBHK didn't sign on until the early afternoons) but KBHK definately ruled the afternoon cartoon market!Marckd said:
M
Marckd
Guest
In Los Angeles KBSC failed because of 4 relatively strong VHF stations (while KHJ and KCOP were not exactly strong they still held their own in the 70's and KCOP had a good line up of cartoons). Kaiser would fund KBSC from profits of their other stations.
In Chicago, Field owned WFLD and Kaiser held some interest in that station. WFLD was well behind WGN 9 but was until 1971 the only other independent. In 1971 when 44 WSNS signed on they were the weak station and WFLD began to grow, signing om mid mornings until 1977 when they began to sign on early mornings like WGN. By 1978 WGN was still on top with WFLD moderately behind and WSNS way behind. In 1979, though Field outbid WGN for MASH, Happy Days, and All In The Family. By 1980 WFLD actually became the leading independent beating WGN despite WFLD being UHF.
In San Francisco, there was room for 2 independent stations so KBHK did well with a strong line up of cartoons. By 1980, when a third indepenent signed on KBHK was clearly number 2 and profitable. KBHK was signing on mid mornings by 1973 and early mornings by 1978.
In Boston WLVI/WKBG was one of 2 independents and behind 38 WSBK. Both stations were UHF so they were on equal playing ground. WLVI would be behind but also WLVI had the strongest kids shows. WXNE/WFXT signed on in 1977 and did not become a strong station till the 90's.
In Philadelphia the fight was between 3 UHF stations. WKBS and WTAF fought for the number one spot throughout the 70's. In the 80's, WKBS TV was unable to get the best programming and fell to number 3. When Field had to sell the company they could not sell WKBS for the money they wanted so they sold most programming toi Channel 17 and they went dark.
In Detroit, WKBD was the top station by default. The other 2 were locally owned and did not have budgets to really compete. So WKBD wound up with the strongest programming.
In Chicago, Field owned WFLD and Kaiser held some interest in that station. WFLD was well behind WGN 9 but was until 1971 the only other independent. In 1971 when 44 WSNS signed on they were the weak station and WFLD began to grow, signing om mid mornings until 1977 when they began to sign on early mornings like WGN. By 1978 WGN was still on top with WFLD moderately behind and WSNS way behind. In 1979, though Field outbid WGN for MASH, Happy Days, and All In The Family. By 1980 WFLD actually became the leading independent beating WGN despite WFLD being UHF.
In San Francisco, there was room for 2 independent stations so KBHK did well with a strong line up of cartoons. By 1980, when a third indepenent signed on KBHK was clearly number 2 and profitable. KBHK was signing on mid mornings by 1973 and early mornings by 1978.
In Boston WLVI/WKBG was one of 2 independents and behind 38 WSBK. Both stations were UHF so they were on equal playing ground. WLVI would be behind but also WLVI had the strongest kids shows. WXNE/WFXT signed on in 1977 and did not become a strong station till the 90's.
In Philadelphia the fight was between 3 UHF stations. WKBS and WTAF fought for the number one spot throughout the 70's. In the 80's, WKBS TV was unable to get the best programming and fell to number 3. When Field had to sell the company they could not sell WKBS for the money they wanted so they sold most programming toi Channel 17 and they went dark.
In Detroit, WKBD was the top station by default. The other 2 were locally owned and did not have budgets to really compete. So WKBD wound up with the strongest programming.
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