Who Decided WJBK Detroit Should Be The Canadian Satellite Fox Affiliate?

[Gregg]

In many Canadian markets, the local cable TV operation is able to pull in signals from nearby U.S. stations so Canadian viewers can have access to CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox and PBS outlets. But if you're too far from a U.S. market, at least on the Eastern side of the Continental Divide, you probably get the Detroit stations via satellite:

WWJ-TV CBS, WDIV NBC, WXYZ ABC, WTVS PBS and WJBK Fox. But WJBK is an odd choice. The station is filled with local news for its Detroit viewers. It runs ELEVEN hours of local news and programming on weekdays! It has a morning show that runs from 4am to noon. Then an hour of news at dinnertime, an hour of news at 10pm ET plus a half hour local interview show at 11pm. Then it reruns the late news and the interview show overnight. If you have no interest in Detroit news, weather, sports or traffic, these shows are of no interest to Canadians.

The Canadian satellite used to provide WUHF Rochester NY as its Fox affiliate. Until a few years ago, they did NO local news. Several years ago they added a 10pm newscast but that's about it. The rest of the day was filled with the Fox primetime line up, plus syndicated game shows, judge shows, off network sitcoms and dramas.

Interestingly, the satellite company also switched from using WTOL Toledo as its CBS affiliate to WWJ-TV. WTOL also does a lot of local news but WWJ, despite being owned by CBS, has no local news department. Between 5pm and 6:30 and between 11pm and 11:35, it has recent network sitcoms... Two and A Half Men and other titles more of interest to Canadian viewers than local news. Removing WTOL for WWJ was a logical switch.

So how did WUHF Rochester get replaced by WJBK Detroit as the Fox outlet?


Gregg
[email protected]

 

[seminole791]

I can't answer your question about what affiliates are carried. However, I am located in Canada and my satellite provider is Shaw Direct (formally StarChoice) and we still get WUHF Rochester as our FOX station. All other major networks come from Detroit.

We also have access to west coast feeds from Seattle.

 

[chrish]

Canadian Maritimes including Newfoundland and Labrador get US network programming from Boston.

 

[Bob1370]

"So how did WUHF Rochester get replaced by WJBK Detroit as the Fox outlet?"

Good question...could have something to do with the fact that WUHF was essentially rented out by its nominal owner, the controversial Sinclair, to Nexstar to operate as essentially a sibling to CBS affiliate WROC-TV, even to the point of farming out the newscast to the WROC news department. It's essentially a pre-feed of WROC's 11 PM news with a lot of the same content, and the same anchors, although it uses different graphics.

Some Canadian markets right across the lake, within range of Rochester OTA signals, may still get the Rochester stations on their cable systems--Vamcouver still gets Seattle, and Toronto and Hamilton see Buffalo, because those were the first TV stations those cities saw OTA in the late 1940s before any Canadian television stations even existed. But for most of Canada that's not within 60 miles of a US cross-border station, a common satellite feed is the easiest and cheapest way to go, way cheaper than setting up cross border microwave links from dozens of US origination points to larger Canafian markets. Detroit could be the shortest hop to a central Canadian uplink.

The only other logical origination point for Canadian coverage of US networks might be the satellite feed of their New York City flagship stations, which is how the networks are seen in the Caribbean and in Latin America. That hasn't happened--and there may be either technical or political reasons for that.

 

[azumanga]

The only other logical origination point for Canadian coverage of US networks might be the satellite feed of their New York City flagship stations, which is how the networks are seen in the Caribbean and in Latin America. That hasn't happened--and there may be either technical or political reasons for that.

Most likely political -- I think there's some sort of CRTC policy that mandates that cable systems get their signals from Canadian satellites, and not American, unless they really have to.

 

[FightingIrish]

I've heard that the Canadian government prefers that network signals come from large market stations (such as from Detroit), where ad time is more expensive. This is to discourage Canadian advertisers from buying time on those U.S. stations. Therefore, it keeps more ad money in Canada.

 

[mjlarochelle]

I've heard that the Canadian government prefers that network signals come from large market stations (such as from Detroit), where ad time is more expensive. This is to discourage Canadian advertisers from buying time on those U.S. stations. Therefore, it keeps more ad money in Canada.

And yet you would think that the CRTC would want stations that are far away from the Canadian border, because the U.S. border stations would be more likely to solicit and/or accept Canadian advertising (WUTV comes to mind). The only border city I'm aware of where local cable does not carry the neighbouring U.S. stations is Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, where Detroit stations are carried instead of Traverse City-Cadillac-Sault Ste. Marie, MI stations, despite being available OTA - although WWUP/10 was still carried until a few years ago.

 

[azumanga]

The only border city I'm aware of where local cable does not carry the neighbouring U.S. stations is Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, where Detroit stations are carried instead of Traverse City-Cadillac-Sault Ste. Marie, MI stations, despite being available OTA - although WWUP/10 was still carried until a few years ago.

Until around 2002, the Shaw cable system in the Canadian Soo offered only two channels local to the US side -- WWUP (CBS) and WTOM from Cheboygan (NBC); ABC came from WJRT in Flint (the programming quality of "local" station WGTQ was terrible) and PBS from WNMU Marquette (there was no local PBS, and the market's PBS station, WCMU from Mount Pleasant, had no repeaters serving the area). It's around 2002 when Shaw decided to replace them all with the Detroit / Rochester combo, via CANCOM.

 

[compubit]

Part of the reason WJBK is there is so that there is a balance and nonduplication of syndicated programming. If you picked WXYZ from Detroit, WTOL from Toledo and WGRZ from Buffalo, there is a chance that all 3 carry one or more syndicated programs - but with all stations from one market - you wouldn't see Wheel of Fortune on the American channels at once (for example). Look at it this way - WWJ's lack of local news probably balances WJBK's news (compared to other markets).

J

 

[Bob1370]

"And yet you would think that the CRTC would want stations that are far away from the Canadian border, because the U.S. border stations would be more likely to solicit and/or accept Canadian advertising (WUTV comes to mind)."

If they want to make sure no Canadian advertisers will buy time on an American network affiliate, you would figure they'd make sure the US network feeds came from either the NYC flagships (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC) or the LA West Coast flagships (KCBS, KNBC, KABC, KTTV)...they command what for a Canadian advertiser would be impossibly high rates for the spots they sell to their own markets.

 

[fybush]

The Boston stations are indeed uplinked to satellite. The uplink is in Needham, next to the WBZ-TV tower, and I believe it's maintained by WGBH, though it's paid for by Cancom or whatever has succeeded it.

 

[kc1ih]

The Boston and Seattle network affiliates are available in Canada to anyone with Bell TV (formerly ExpressVU).

 

[chrish]

There is a very strong relationship between the people living in Quebec, Ontario and especially the Maritimes have with New Englanders, many have emigrated back and forth across the border since the late 1800's and there are family relationships on both sides with ties to each other.
In addition there was a horrific Halifax harbor explosion in 1917, the people of Boston and New England immediately sent train loads of aid including Doctors, nurses, medical supplies in addition to food, clothes, household goods and money. This endeared the people of the Maritimes and Nova Scotia to New Englanders so much that to this day they still send a huge Christmas tree to Boston for display just after Thanksgiving every year.
The relationship is so strong that when there was talk of Quebec leaving the Confederation a strong number of Maritimers expressed sentiments of joining the US
rather than continuing being tied to the Western Provicences to which they have little in common. Talking with New Brunswick and PEI relatives surprised me
by saying the Canadian Federation is nowhere near as strong as the American statehood relationship. In the wonderful PBS special "The last train across Canada"
the host spent time with Manitoba and Saskatchewan ranchers and people living on the boarder who said they had a much closer and stronger relationship to
the people of North Dakota and Minnesota than the did with fellow Canadians

 

[RBW]

Part of the reason WJBK is there is so that there is a balance and nonduplication of syndicated programming. If you picked WXYZ from Detroit, WTOL from Toledo and WGRZ from Buffalo, there is a chance that all 3 carry one or more syndicated programs - but with all stations from one market - you wouldn't see Wheel of Fortune on the American channels at once (for example). Look at it this way - WWJ's lack of local news probably balances WJBK's news (compared to other markets).

It's the end of the day... and maybe my brain has fried ... But could you please clarify this post so I can understand it better.

 

[mjlarochelle]

Part of the reason WJBK is there is so that there is a balance and nonduplication of syndicated programming. If you picked WXYZ from Detroit, WTOL from Toledo and WGRZ from Buffalo, there is a chance that all 3 carry one or more syndicated programs - but with all stations from one market - you wouldn't see Wheel of Fortune on the American channels at once (for example). Look at it this way - WWJ's lack of local news probably balances WJBK's news (compared to other markets).

It's the end of the day... and maybe my brain has fried ... But could you please clarify this post so I can understand it better.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Wheel/Jeopardy! aired on WDIV (NBC) Detroit, WTOL (CBS) Toledo, and WEWS (ABC) Cleveland. If a cable system carried those three stations, you would have the same programming on those three channels, plus whatever Canadian channels were carrying it. Of course, the U.S. stations get sim-subbed, but from the viewers' standpoint, there's a lack of choice when 4 channels on the lower end of the dial have the same shows at the same time.

 

[RBW]

Ahhhhhh... of course! That damn substitution rule is the pits. Which makes me think that the ability to receive the "western" feeds would effectively kill that process. IS that true?

 

[azumanga]

Ahhhhhh... of course! That damn substitution rule is the pits. Which makes me think that the ability to receive the "western" feeds would effectively kill that process. IS that true?

Usually is, but it depends on system and situation -- Shaw Direct and most cable systems offer stations from both coasts, with Shaw Direct simsubbing according to post code and the local systems sinsubbing according to the available local signals. Bell TV also has both eastern and western feeds, but implements nationwide simsubbing, usually with Toronto simsubbing over Boston and Vancouver simsubbing over Seattle; viewers experience simsubbing, regardless of where they live. And of course, some programs that are seen nationwide, such as the Super Bowl, are simsubbed nationwide. There were reports that some Shaw Direct customers unplug, and plug back in, their receivers (sometimes repeatedly), just so they can get the original feed.

 

[chrish]

I forgot this one.....when traveling in the Maritimes you will often hear a description of those to the south (New England) as the Boston States.

 

[spencerkarter85]

The Boston and Seattle network affiliates are available in Canada to anyone with Bell TV (formerly ExpressVU).

Well the Canadians got lucky! Here in the USA on satellite TV on getting east/west network feeds is different than in Canada, if they don't have local stations on satellite or lived in so-called 'unserved' household, they have to apply to a waiver to their local TV stations (if approved or denied) to watch the network feeds in SD from both coasts and/or HD from your own coast. If you already have locals, you're so out of luck unfortunately, it's a SHVA/SHVIA/SHVERA/STELA thing.

 

[FreddyE1977]

A business contact in Winnipeg told me that his cable system said they had replaced the
Detroit stations with Buffalo and Rochester because of "all that coverage of shootings and
street crime on the Detroit newscasts". No idea if there is any truth to that.